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80 years to the Battle of Moscow!!!


Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,846
5 Dec 2021 #31
Why current Ukrainian government suppose to denounce someone who doesn't have an official relation to their country?

Because there is a cult in Ukraine of Bandera, banderism and all that. It stared with the west but spread to Kiev. Institutions and offcial are involved too.

Why? Would you say that about Germany of they would put in palce statues of Hilter? Name streets after Gobbles?

Or address the issues of pre-war repression of Ukrainians which led to hostility from the Banderiści.

Great, now go and excuse Stalin, Pol pot and then Hitler. Why not?

a convenient excuse to pay to those Ukrainians who work in Poland as little as possible

Are you making it up? Should we pay them more than our citizens? What kind of nosense is that?
They can always leave if they don't like it. Yet they seems to like here very much. too much.
Aslo, if they get better job they get a better pay, they have health services for free like other people, they even send children to schools and don't pay for it, they recive 500 plus too.

Considering Ukrainie is not part of the EU, Poland is very generous.
You haters are sick.

Didnt the UPA

I have been told about you scum. After your posts I don't doubt that info.
jon357 71 | 21,105
5 Dec 2021 #32
Because there is a cult in Ukraine of Bandera

Don't assume that far-right cultists or 'nationalists' are in the majority in any country. Banderiści are no more typical of the Ukraine than the (now arrested) ringleaders of the Kalisz fascist march or the ONR thugs are typical of Poland.

Stalin, Pol pot and then Hitler.

Bandera was none of those. In fact one of them imprisoned him in Dachau concentration camp and another had him killed. And you still can't ignore the repression against Ukranians in the interwar years which caused such anger.

Poland is very generous.

You think that equal pay for equal work is 'generous'??
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,846
5 Dec 2021 #33
You think

I think you are sick. I think you excuse genocide if that suit. I think you are stupid. I think you don't know anything about Bandera or banderist or you lie.
OP Vlad1234 18 | 1,202
5 Dec 2021 #34
Because there is a cult in Ukraine of Bandera

Which crimes do you believe Bandera is personally responsible for? Where are the documentary proves? We could talk about the cult if there would be streets and monuments named after Bandera in every Ukrainian city. Like Lenin monuments in the past. Is it a case? Do a few monuments or objects named after Bandera in all the Ukraine allow to talk about the cult?
jon357 71 | 21,105
5 Dec 2021 #35
I think

You don't think much at all.

Bandera

Was in Dachau when UPA-B were doing their crimes.

a few monuments

Exactly. Only a few. As marginal as so-called 'nationalists' in Poland.
OP Vlad1234 18 | 1,202
5 Dec 2021 #36
another had him killed

No. He had been killed in 1950. Typically it is the Soviet KGB agent who is suspected.
jon357 71 | 21,105
5 Dec 2021 #37
No. He had been killed in 1950

A quick look on wiki shows that it was actually 1959 so it was Stalin's successor Nikita.

As I recall, in Munich.
OP Vlad1234 18 | 1,202
5 Dec 2021 #38
Considering Ukrainie is not part of the EU, Poland is very generous.

Many Ukrainians work in Poland illigaly. And I'm not a hater.
OP Vlad1234 18 | 1,202
5 Dec 2021 #39
Why? Would you say that about Germany of they would put in palce statues of Hilter?

The Nuremberg tribunal did a lot of work and gathered a lot of evidence to proclaim them officially gulty. And Bandera?

Institutions and offcial are involved too.

Political games are messy very often. Probably some officials in Ukraine are viewing Bandera and other controversal figures as at least something that is urgently needed to replace the ideological vacuum that remains after de-communization in Ukraine.

You think that equal pay for equal work is 'generous'??

But is it really so?
Strzelec35 36 | 1,254
5 Dec 2021 #40
"Though yes, I've come across Ukrainians here who are treated in ways that Poles are not."

me too and this includes even news articles proving what ive been saying is true even by police and straz miejska and especially retard nationalist bouncers.

rp.pl/spoleczenstwo/art19165691-smierc-w-trakcie-zatrzymania-tragedia-w-skierniewicach?

You are not even European whatever your name is. Unless you accept lgtbs and trans and even furries and more youre not even a westerner. heck if youre not willing to fuk transgenders youre not welcome in the western world anymore:

vice.com/en/article/neq9zx/whats-wrong-with-the-no-trans-dating-preference-debate

get with the program. its all about equal rights in Europe and the west. nobody gives a fuk about polaks or bandera.

I actually used to be a nationalist like you before I got deported to Poland and the first few months back but I never hated Ukrainians or bandera or gave a ****. same with Jews. I only was against the west or America. Then I realized I have nothing in common with you guys except a few I met.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,846
6 Dec 2021 #41
Don't assume

Don't lecture me, don't assume and don't tell me what to think. In fact it would be good if you wouldn't respond to me at all.

The Nuremberg tribunal

Look you asked a qestion. I told you what would be the most likely issue Poles would have towards Ukrainians, most people wouldn't care if they are from the west ukraine or the east. They would care even less about your excuses.

It doesn't mean they would say or do anything. Most just mind their own things.

You might not like it. You might disagree with it. You might do a lot of things. It doesn't change facts.
Do you want to know or do you want to argue with reality and facts?
I could say that ukrainian national identity is just made up nonsense. It doesn't change reality.

Many Ukrainians work in Poland illigaly.

They are criminals. If they choose to work illigaly that is on them.
OP Vlad1234 18 | 1,202
7 Dec 2021 #42
Many Ukrainians in WWII tired of Stalin and hailed Germans. Sadly for them the Nazies didn't completely satisfied their expectations. If Germans would be clever they could get much more support of a local citizens. Not only in Ukraine, but elswhere.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,846
7 Dec 2021 #43
he Nazies didn't completely satisfied their expectations.

Germans always used Ukraine to check Poland and bargain with Russia. like a chip on a board - an expendable chip. Sadly Ukrainians like Germany for some reson.
OP Vlad1234 18 | 1,202
7 Dec 2021 #45
Sadly Ukrainians like Germany for some reson.

I think, I could guess these reasons easily: Germans are percived as cultural, organized, civilized and having a lot of bratwursts, first of all. Secondly, many Ukrainians and especially Ukr. nationalists were viewing Russian Empire and Poland as the largest potential threats to Ukrainian autonomy and were looking at Austrian Empire and Germany as a potential counterweights. I guess if Germany would have mentally adequate government during WWll and behavied respectfully toward Ukrainians they would be able to gather millions of Ukrainians under their arms instead of thousands.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_Plan
A few years ago Ukrainan parliament passed resolution which denounced totalitarian Nazi and Communist regimes and prohibited to use any symbolic of these regimes.

Just Crazy: Hitler's Plan for Moscow Was to Kill all Residents & Replace it With a Lake
thevintagenews.com/2015/11/21/just-crazy-hitlers-plan-for-moscow-was-to-kill-all-residents-replace-it-with-a-lake/

They are criminals. If they choose to work illigaly that is on them.

And what about millions of Poles who worked illegaly in EU countries and continue to live illigaly in UK after Brexit? You just called your compatriots a "criminals".
Miloslaw 14 | 4,676
8 Dec 2021 #46
And what about millions of Poles who worked illegaly in EU countries and continue to live illigaly in UK after Brexit?

All the Poles I know in the UK are legal.

No reason for them to be illegal.
OP Vlad1234 18 | 1,202
8 Dec 2021 #47
Do UK has exclusive agreement with Poland about work? UK is no more a EU country? And at least 500 thousands of Polish people live there?
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,846
8 Dec 2021 #48
You just called your compatriots a "criminals".

So what? If someone breaks the law that makes him a criminal.
The only exception is a civil disobedience, politics.

millions of Poles who worked illegaly in EU countries

Millions? :D
OP Vlad1234 18 | 1,202
8 Dec 2021 #49
Millions?

About 2 million primarily young Poles took up jobs abroad. Most Poles live in Europe,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_diaspora
Are you going to tell that majority of them worked legally in EU and US before Poland became EU member?
jon357 71 | 21,105
8 Dec 2021 #50
All the Poles I know in the UK are legal.

Not post-2004. Before then, and since the early 90s there was a steady stream of people looking for opportunities to work where there were few at home.

continue to live illigaly in UK after Brexit

Probably very few. Most are there legally as part of the withdrawal agreement.

In fact it would be good if you wouldn't respond to me at all.

It's a discussion forum. You don't get to choose.
OP Vlad1234 18 | 1,202
8 Dec 2021 #51
It is difficult to understand present without undestanding the past. Modern Europe divided again into two major parts: EU members and the rest (underhumans, untermensch). The later are no more than a colonies to supply cheap resourses and sex slaves.
OP Vlad1234 18 | 1,202
16 Dec 2021 #52
Russian spirit stinks
Yes.

What do you dislike about Russian spirit?
Novichok 2 | 7,651
26 Dec 2021 #53
He doesn't know. It's just a line.
I like Russian spirit and the Russian national anthem. Here is a version even the Russia haters should like:

youtu.be/dSbph7U5gVw

or this:

youtu.be/c2JpUTaB2bE
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,846
26 Dec 2021 #54
and Poland as the largest potential threats to Ukrainian autonomy

Why Poland? That is delusion. Poland never had any plans to Take over Ukraine. It doesn't mean that we would stay still when Ukrainians claimed lands that more than 600 years were part of Poland proper. They were always minority there.

Russia see Ukrainie as a part of their domaine and want it whole or a bigger part of it. If Russia would take all the land they want from them - Ukraine 1/3 of today size. It would make that country a depended little state on Russia mercy.

If Poland would to take its lands it wouldn't be even 1/3 of Ukraine size and it wouldn't afftect that much Ukraine.
OP Vlad1234 18 | 1,202
26 Dec 2021 #55
Poland never had any plans to Take over Ukraine.

Pilsudski briefly captured Kiev in 1920 and ageed to give it up to Ukrainians only because he needed union with them against Bolsheviks. Now Poland wouldn't be able to settle any new territories with Polish colonists. Look at fertility rates.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 1,846
27 Dec 2021 #56
briefly captured Kiev in 1920

What are you talking about? There were no plans to take Kiev for Poland in 1920. As there is nobody that want to take it now.

Do not worry about what Poland would do with the land. We could even plant trees there, that is not my point.
My point is that Ukrainins are delusional if they think Poland is or ever was a threat.
By the way what colonists? Rather people whose ancestors are from those lands.
Oathbreaker 4 | 493
27 Dec 2021 #57
@Cojestdocholery
He, just like many others think that the offensive towards Kiev was an conquering move. While in reality it was striking first, before the red army as it was anticipated. Conquering all pre-partitioning land areas was out of the question without the willingness of the local population which years 1918-1939 perfectly showed (even 1939-1945 relations when government went underground+exile)

Piłsudski imagined an union/alliance/federation of independant states as a means against any form of Russia. (He grew up in Russian partition and saw it as greatest threat to Poland)

While Nation Democrats saw Germany as greatest threat (most backing was in Prussian/German partition) and saw it as senseless to trust/bet on national minorities when the time comes (they were the ones to negotiate the peace treaty with the Soviets to Piłsudski's dismay)

Which lead to a situation where Piłsudski Lost Petlura and his faction as key ally but, also turned Ukrainians from wanting to make deals with any Polish faction.

Nowadays PiS tries to copy cat the same idea with Lithuania/Ukraine/Belarus as buffer states while opposition wants tighter bonds with EU.
OP Vlad1234 18 | 1,202
1 Jan 2022 #58
He, just like many others think that the offensive towards Kiev was an conquering move.

Do you think he wouldn't conquer it if he would experience very little resistance if any? Haven't he dreamt about Poland from Baltic to Black seas?
Oathbreaker 4 | 493
2 Jan 2022 #59
@Vlad1234
That vivid romanticism you are mentioning were among such people like Paderewski, who had a lot of influence in the U.S during his time. He envisioned Poland being a champion for the good of all, clearly shown in his speech. Not only from baltic to the black sea.

Piłsudski had plans and ambitions towards eastern europe, but wasn't blind to the political realities on the ground. His best option was an alliance with U.K and France, problem was that they saw him as an Austrian influence and didn't want to bet on him nor his faction. In 1939, politically U.K and France saw it as Austria killing her own when Hitler invaded Poland. Which is dead wrong.

The historical romanticism of seing Poland again from sea to sea is a romantic appeal to Poland's glorious past and holds sway among Poles who wants Poland to achieve such status again.

Very similar effect to those Russians nowadays who think about Soviet Union

I have a hard time finding any political romantiscism being part of a political platform other then to sway votes towards them. The realities on the ground limits Poland drastically. Lack of nuclear weapons and very negative experiences with contacts in eastern europe forces Poland to look westward even among those who are unwilling to do so.

PiS invited several right-wing political figueres of the EU.

Not that of Belarus, Ukraine and Russia.

As long as Russia has too strong influence in Belarus+Ukraine and is paranoid about U.S intervention. Then any serious financial/political investments in Belarus/Ukraine would require Poland to be able to intervene militarily on her own to protect said investments and contacts (like in 15-16 century)

Nowadays Poland remains as a safe haven for those who wish to change their Ukraine/Belarus for the better without having to choose Russia as an option.

Poland is a soft power in this regard politically. One only has to look at Poland's focus, investments, type of military, scale of it and who/where Poland's political landscape communicates the most.

Poland has an open door towards Ukraine/Belarus
But, invites, talks and participates with Germany, U.K, France, Hungary and U.S.A
Strzelec35 36 | 1,254
2 Jan 2022 #60
"Nowadays Poland remains as a safe haven for those who wish to change their Ukraine/Belarus for the better without having to choose Russia as an option."

barbarians offering these poor people such a safe heaven huh? Id like to see polaks treated like this or attacked in the uk see how theyd like it with axes or shoved women etc like barbarian polaks:

lodz.wyborcza.pl/lodz/7,35136,27961982,zamaskowani-dwa-razy-wpadli-z-siekierami-do-hostelu-by-zaatakowac.html

lol and its always lodz or this ghetto city i live at in the news for violence or patologia behavior form polaks.


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