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Does restoration of Novorossiya represent solution for conflict in what is now Ukraine? Polish opinions


Crow 139 | 8,307
26 Oct 2018 #1
What you people think? Does restoration of Novorossiya represent solution for conflict in what is now Ukraine? Sure, region then can stay independent or may join Russia if people on plebiscite decide so. What remain of what is now Ukraine will be first solely Ukrainian ethnic state.

n

Historical context >

Novorossiya

is a historical term of the Russian Empire denoting a region north of the Black Sea (now part of Ukraine). It was formed as a new imperial province of Russia (Novorossiya Governorate, or Novorosiyskaya guberniya) in 1764 from military frontier regions along with parts of the southern Hetmanate in preparation for war with the Ottomans.[1] It was further expanded by the annexation of the Zaporizhian Sich in 1775.

nr
Tacitus 2 | 1,032
26 Oct 2018 #2
Who knows. Breaking up Yugoslavia and splitting Kosovo from Serbia did eventually pacify the Balkans. However since Yugoslavia/Serbia was clearly the agressor in those conflicts, while the Ukraine is the victim, the parallels end here.

Novorossiya is as Crow showed an artificial construct that has likely no deeper connection with the Ukrainians. So I doubt that this is in any way helpful.
OP Crow 139 | 8,307
26 Oct 2018 #3
Your comment is just provocation of one who is brainwashed. Let me quote just this >

Breaking up Yugoslavia and splitting Kosovo from Serbia did eventually pacify the Balkans.

It actually flamed entire world. It will result in ending the EU, ending the Germany. Just sit, eat popcorn and follow events
Vlad1234 16 | 716
27 Oct 2018 #4
solution for conflict in what is now Ukraine? Sure, region then can stay independent or may join Russia

Your assumption is too theoretical because not even Donetsk separatist leaders call for total independence from Ukraine or joining Russia, but just for a larger autonomy within the Ukrainian state. Secondly they already got large autonomy de-facto, almost complete independence and I don't see how the farther changes can affect the rest of Ukraine principally. EU doesn't seem desires accept Ukraine as its member either with Donetsk or without, so I don't see some variants. Can you explain how exactly could it affect Ukraine?
OP Crow 139 | 8,307
28 Oct 2018 #5
Be aware that situation complicates and developing. New moments are in the game.

Take this with dispute between Russian Orthodox Church (supported by other Slavic Orthodox Churches) and Patriarch of Constantinople Bartolome (supported by Greeks and publicly by USA- imagine that), where Patriarch of all Orthodox Churches violates old rules within Orthodoxy. So you now, just like that, have Ukrainian Orthodox Church separated from ROC. Not that I am against it on the long run, when Ukraine is defined as proper state of Ukrainian people, after long process of becoming aware who are real Ukrainians (that fell so) and then after process of consolidating real borders of that ethnic Ukraine.

What I want to tell you, if Nazi banderists try to take over property of ROC in Ukraine by force, real estates such are old Churches, you think Russia will look at that just like that without doing nothing? No, Russia will be forced to react and it would be reaction under pressure of its own public that will demand swift and proper respond. It can turn into holly war in a blink of an eye.

Then, when that happen, when Russia intervene, what you think what would be Russian main direction of movement. Russia will react to protect property of ROC, there in Ukraine, where is loyal populace of ROC. See, it will lead to Novorossiya.
Ironside 49 | 10,487
28 Oct 2018 #6
No, that is Russian made plan to benefit Russia strategically and politically. . I would say fine Russia can have some of this red part of the territory on the map but without two most western districts (those are visible on the map). Plus Russia should cede Kaliningrad area to Poland.
OP Crow 139 | 8,307
28 Oct 2018 #7
Irone brate.... Russia won`t ask us. Let Russia have it. Things are in motion moment banderist puppet regime start to claim property of ROC in red area. I believe Russia won`t move for blue area but for the red area will. Blue area? I am personally sure that Russia leaving it to Poland but western Europe won`t allow for that. And Pope will make game of it. And nothing will be Polish. You sow what said Huntington?

Man, Serbia isn`t nearly in sh**, as Poland is. Unfortunately, you will learn that. And believe me, we ARE in sh**.

As for Kaliningrad. I am all for it that to goes to Poland. You know how Russians react when Serbs tell them that? They say we Serbs are crazy. Then Serbs as Serbs continue and ask... what if Poland is military neutral same as Serbia is and, in allied relationship with Serbia? Russians then take another sip of vodka or whatever..

I still tries to figure what Russians means.
Ironside 49 | 10,487
28 Oct 2018 #8
Russia won`t ask us.

I know but in that case they can go F themselves.
OP Crow 139 | 8,307
28 Oct 2018 #9
But who are we brate? We are in sh** man, already. Its not Russians who gave us sh**. Bottom line is, they didn`t. They themselves just tries to cope and how WE helping them. Serbia is at least military neutral.

Heard today in TV political analyzes of one new political moment that may affect things in what is now Ukraine. Romania have appetites on Moldavia and entire Bessarabia, including Pridnjestrovlje. Russia is alerted. It again pushes things in direction of possible Russian intervention in order to protect Pridnjestrovlje. And again it open possibility for Novorossiya.
OP Crow 139 | 8,307
25 Nov 2018 #10
Just read news on Serbian b92 online

Few moment ago started hostilities between Ukrainian and Russian ships in Azov Sea
Torq 32 | 2,897
26 Nov 2018 #11
Polish governments have been repeating this for ages--along with the progress of Nord Stream 2 project, when Russia won't need Ukrainian gas transit system anymore, Russian aggression towards Ukraine will rise. What we see now is only a logical consequence of the Nord Stream 2 project--it's not a Russian aggression on Ukraine: it's a joint German-Russian attack.

The history of joint Russian-German cooperation against Central European states goes back along way (suffice it to mention the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact), but Nord Stream 2 adds an additional twist to it: it is not only aggression against a neutral European country (Ukraine) but also against German Central European allies (Poland, Bohemia, Slovakia and Lithuania).
Tacitus 2 | 1,032
26 Nov 2018 #12
Because those countries have a god-given right to get transit fees from Germany/Russia?
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434
26 Nov 2018 #13
it is not only aggression against a neutral European country (Ukraine) but also against German Central European allies

And what are they doing now?
Torq 32 | 2,897
26 Nov 2018 #14
Because those countries have a god-given right to get transit fees from Germany/Russia?

Erm... no; but it was blatantly obvious that as soon as Russia doesn't need Ukrainian transit system they will escalate aggresion against Ukraine, and that's exactly what is happening now. Poland warned everyone that this would happen.

And what are they doing now?

Well, there's not much they can do, is there? Poland is negotating gas deals with the US and other countries, we built the LNG terminal etc. but smaller countries don't have all those options available to them, so they watch joint German-Russian actions with fear.
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434
26 Nov 2018 #15
Poland is negotating gas deals with the US and other countries,

That seems of no interest to Russia right now...at least that hasn't stopped them from doing what they are doing now.

Well, there's not much they can do, is there?

They could ask for a meeting in Brussels to shed a light on the happenings....or call NATO...or lend Ukraine at least diplomatically support....or anything...I rather think they don't care..

Or nobody in the western govs knows what is actually happening right now and why...but it's great to know that posters on PF know all about it! :)
Torq 32 | 2,897
26 Nov 2018 #16
call NATO

Ukraine is NOT in NATO, so that would be pretty much pointless at the moment, but if Russians (with German economic help) continue their aggression, then I am quite sure NATO will get involved at some point.

it's great to know that posters on PF know all about it! :)

Not all, but we are happy to point out the most obvious part of it, thank you. :)
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434
26 Nov 2018 #17
Ukraine is NOT in NATO,

But they are:

but also against German Central European allies (Poland, Bohemia, Slovakia and Lithuania).

If they are attacked at least Poland, Slovakia and Lithuania should do something...Bohemia?

Not all, but we are happy to point out the most obvious part of it, thank you. :)

:)
Torq 32 | 2,897
26 Nov 2018 #18
lend Ukraine at least diplomatically support....or anything

thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/393976,Aggression-by-Russia-cannot-be-allowed-Polish-deputy-PM
thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/393942,Lithuania-condemns-Russian-naval-%E2%80%98aggression-against-Ukraine

Where's the German condemnation? Oh, wait...
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434
26 Nov 2018 #19
Spiegel just brought a lengthy article on that....

spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukrainisch-russischer-zwischenfall-nervenkrieg-in-der-meerenge-a-1240432.html

I think they are still scratching their heads in Berlin...but I learned there will be meetings:

NATO general secretary Stoltenberg followed a request of ukrainian president Poroschenko and announced an special meeting of the NATO-Ukraine Commission...today...during the afternoon.

nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_50319.htm
Torq 32 | 2,897
26 Nov 2018 #20
"There will be meetings" and "they're scratching their heads"?

*sighs*

Oh, well... it's better than nothing I suppose.
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434
26 Nov 2018 #21
Just so you wait...our frown into the general direction of Putin will be epic!!!
Torq 32 | 2,897
26 Nov 2018 #22
A frown? That would be a bit harsh--we don't want to escalate the conflict, do we? :)
Torq 32 | 2,897
26 Nov 2018 #23
Ukrainian President has just signed martial law act...

fakty.interia.pl/swiat/news-rosyjski-atak-na-ukrainskie-okrety-na-morzu-azowskim-relacja,nId,2696556

... and Lithuanian president says her country should be ready to defend itself against a potential Russian invasion.
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434
26 Nov 2018 #24
Escalation would mean a serious "harrumpf"....

update:

The ukrainian ambassador in Germany demands german war ships....

spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-fordert-im-konflikt-mit-russland-deutsche-kriegsschiffe-an-a-1240469.html

Which one??

This NATO session will be interesting...
Ziemowit 13 | 4,125
26 Nov 2018 #25
The province of New Serbia preceded the creation of Novorossija (New Russia),
The region was named after Serbs, who migrated in 1752 to the Russian Empire from the Military Frontier of the Habsburg Monarchy.
After the formation of New Serbia, its initial new settlers were Serbs, but also many Moldavians and other Romanians (Mocani from Transylvania), Ukrainians, Bulgarians and others settled in the area.

newserbia
OP Crow 139 | 8,307
30 Nov 2018 #26
along with the progress of Nord Stream 2 project, when Russia won't need Ukrainian gas transit system anymore, Russian aggression towards Ukraine will rise.

News of today is that Ukrainian forces stormed Russian Orthodox monastery. Russia`s reaction on it won`t have anything with Nord Stream 2 project. So, don`t spread confusion, when you don`t understand politics.

Look what I wrote in this thread on 28 October. Here is my quotation >

you think Russia will look at that just like that without doing nothing? No, Russia will be forced to react

What I want to tell you, Russia even won`t try to pretend and won`t even try to find some excuse, if comes to Russian intervention in Ukraine if property of Russian Orthodox Church is threatened and by that very lives of Russian or pro-Russian populace in what is now Ukraine.

I hate to tell it but I was right when started this thread. Restoration of Novorossiya could turn to be solution for conflict in what is now Ukraine, no matter Novorossiya is independent or part of Russia.

Development >

Russians warn: Civil conflict possible in whole of Ukraine
b92.net/eng/news/world.php?yyyy=2018&mm=11&dd=30&nav_id=105651

"The Ukrainian military has been granted exclusive powers, including the extrajudicial use of force, which poses a serious danger, as the civil conflict may engulf the entire country,"

"The Kiev authorities can now seize anything they want from the country's people, from private property to identification documents," Zakharova pointed out.

Yes, Russians are absolutely right on this one.
Slavictor 7 | 198
13 Jan 2019 #27
NATO will get involved

This is precisely why the revolution was specifically engineered. Poroshenko does what his Western handlers pay him to. Ukraine in NATO means Western missiles on Russias' doorstep and pointed directly at them. Russia should place several dozen ICBM's in Cuba and see how the White House likes it. So much for the Western promise of not one inch further eastward.

The Neo-Trotsky ilk which controls Washington's foreign policy with respect to Russia, think they can win a nuclear first strike against it if they ring Russia with Anti-ABM systems. This is clearly insanity, and planet earth pays for the insanity of a few. Should they not be taken out for all our sakes?
johnny reb 27 | 4,691
13 Jan 2019 #28
Russia should place several dozen ICBM's in Cuba

They tried that once.
It was called tha Bay of Pigs.

Should they not be taken out for all our sakes?

The nuke idea is to reduce the worlds population.
Thank the Builderburg's.
Slavictor 7 | 198
16 Jan 2019 #29
Trump does more Lobby bidding;

"US to begin INF Treaty withdrawal from February 2, Washington confirms"
rt.com/news/448966-inf-withdrawal-treaty-russia/

Washington's unilateral withdrawal from the treaty - originally signed by the United States and Russia in 1987
OP Crow 139 | 8,307
26 Jan 2020 #30
Just read that US CIA leaked WWII facts about UPA Bandera. As CIA state, Bandera was Hitler`s agent.

u

source: novosti.rs/vesti/planeta.299.html:843670-Bandera-bio-Hitlerov-agent-tvrdi-CIA-Americki-samar-Ukrajincima?utm_campaign=alo.contentexchange.me&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=alo.contentexchange.me


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