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The EU's New Pact on Migration and Asylum


Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
23 Sep 2020 #1
Today the EU presented their new plan because, VdL said it herself, the old one is broken and has stopped working

In short the EU will put more effort into control who comes in, into faster screening of requests, into quicker deportations and the general better guarding of the EU outer borders. FRONTEX will be strengthened.

No binding quotas, the taking in of refugees stays voluntary....interesting for Poland: Countries which don't want to take in refugees can now chose to take over deportation sponsorships (!) instead.

ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/priorities-2019-2024/promoting-our-european-way-life/new-pact-migration-and-asylum_en

NGO's like Pro Asyl are shocked! They call it a "devilish plan for deprivation of rights".

Let's hope the member states agree and finalize this new pact! It can't be hardly worse than what we have now....
AntV 2 | 167
23 Sep 2020 #2
That's good news!

Now, if all of the EU gets on-board and is serious about strengthening the eastern border, how will the EU start acting towards Turkey? Will the unification of a strong eastern border render the threats of Turkey releasing "migrants" impotent, thereby putting stronger and meaningful demands on Erdogan?
OP Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
23 Sep 2020 #3
First steps first....all members need to agree to that first!!! :)

But I don't think most Europeans have the eastern borders foremost in mind...rather the South...where the people keep coming....
AntV 2 | 167
23 Sep 2020 #4
:). I'm getting antsy, BB.

Might be for the better that moving on Turkey is a little ways down the road-we need to get our nukes outta there first.
OP Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
23 Sep 2020 #5
Erdogan is a big mouth...not much more!
AntV 2 | 167
23 Sep 2020 #6
I'm gonna have to disagree with ya, beebs. He's going full Islamist autocrat. Example, Hagia Sophia Plus he's angling toward Russia-Iran. Not a good partner.
OP Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
23 Sep 2020 #7
Hagia Sophia would cost him nothing, and he knew that...nobody outside batted an eye, just empty protests....it was a gesture meant for the inside politics.

But there is a line which could cost him NATO, treaties and lotsa money and economic support...attacking Greece would mean all that. He is a loud mouth, not necessarily stupid.

(Even as I wish sometimes he would make such a big blunder, then we can stop all this dancing around...Erdogan's Turkey is really not a good partner!)
Ironside 49 | 10,817
24 Sep 2020 #8
oday the EU presented their new plan because,

oh really? genius ibn Brussels just noticed it like after five years almost six. With such a reaction time they cannot run a lemonade stand let alone EU. phew!

Now there is plan that will work, nobody is getting in illegality no one a man, woman or a child. Those who are already here are getting verified and if they can't prove they are refugees, they are getting kicked out they way they came.

That is a plan I would sing and agree to pay for not some bottom tier BS semi-plan full of bluster and no substance.
Is there no plan to take all those refugees in and implement that so called plan later That plan that originated with Merkel - again? Really? How about Go F Y!

Let big corp. and banks pay for it and handle it.

Erdogan's Turkey is really not a good partner!)

Turkey is a strategic partner for Poland. In a reality where Poland are conducting it own interest based policy.
AntV 2 | 167
24 Sep 2020 #9
@BB

You make good points, but I'm not as confident that the Hagia was just for internal consumption. It think it was a signal to let the world know it's now undoubtedly no longer a secular government but an Islamist state.

We might say big whoop, but the fact remains we have not insignificant military assets within its borders and we now have a radical change in shared strategic values and Turkey is allying itself with NATO adversaries. Not to mention Turkey is buying Russian arms to commingle with its NATO purchased arms. He's up to something not in our interest and it might be time for NATO to divorce itself from them, but American nukes need to be gotten out and Germany must have the conviction and determination to push against Turkey.

But, these are just musings of a know-nothing amateur farting in his chair. :):)

Turkey is a strategic partner for Poland.

Yeah, what exactly is that strategic partnership about, Iron? I've heard there is one, but I know nothing about it.
OP Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
24 Sep 2020 #10
In Brussels, Visegrad countries reject the EU's migration plan

euractiv.com/section/justice-home-affairs/news/in-brussels-visegrad-four-reject-the-eus-migration-plan/

Four Eastern European countries rejected the EU's latest plans for handling migrants on Thursday (24 September), after talks with European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen in Brussels, and insisted that the plans for tougher new asylum rules do not go far enough....

Well...that was that then...*eye roll*
AntV 2 | 167
24 Sep 2020 #11
Hmmmm...seems like they make a solid point.

Why not just deny entry until given legal permission? Taking a stance of not allowing any illegal entry disincentivizes migrants, no? Plus, how many of the migrants in the past deluges of migrants been proven to be legit asylum-seekers?
OP Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
24 Sep 2020 #12
It was a try for a compromise ALL EU members could subscribe to, every side got some and would have to give some, nobody will get the full points....that's how a Union works (especially with so many different members).

In my opinion it was a good compromise....look how the NGO's spitted, now they will be happy that at least everything stays at it is. THANK YOU! :(

Visegráds should not be so surprised when other countries would care the same way next time they want something from other members....just saying!
pawian 176 | 14,299
24 Sep 2020 #13
Yes, exactly. When Russia invades, we will be on our own, as usual. But Iron, like other fascists and rabid nationalists, won`t mind - Putin`s Russia is their fav ally.
AntV 2 | 167
24 Sep 2020 #14
@Bratwurst Boy

Maybe I'm not understanding the problem correctly, but it seems the Visegrads are just saying let's agree to not allow any illegal entries (regardless of type of claim) and seal the East border. Who in the EU doesn't find that agreeable and why?
OP Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
24 Sep 2020 #15
Every applicant needs to be screened first to find out if they are illegal or not! The right of asylum still stands after all, even if most applicants will not fall under that human right in the end.

In the meantime, till their fate is decided, the people need to be housed and fed and treated humanly at least. That is a huge and costly effort, not to mention a logistic nightmare. Visegrads doesn't want to take part in sharing the burden at all...

This new pact made a big move towards the Visegrads...with quicker screening BEFORE, only accepted people get distributed in the EU...and if a Visegrad still doesn't want to take any real refugees in they at least can help with the deportations of real illegals...still no enforced quota....what more do they want?

The abolishing of the right of asylum?
AntV 2 | 167
24 Sep 2020 #16
Every applicant needs to be screened first to find out if they are illegal or not!

OK, OK, geez, I was just asking. Haha.

Aren't they all illegal, though? Most legal immigrants are entering a legit port of entry, no? Where's the deterrence from mass swarms of illegals in the compromise?

runs for cover
OP Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
24 Sep 2020 #17
*grabs Antis shirttail to stop him from running*

There won't be any deterrence, I fear!

People knew they would get shot by the Wall guards if they tried to leave the GDR, they still tried....

But the strengthening of FRONTEX and hence the strengthening of the EU outer border was another main point of this EU pact.

So I have to ask again, WTF do the Visegrads want???
AntV 2 | 167
24 Sep 2020 #18
People knew they would get shot by the Wall guards if they tried to leave the GDR, they still tried....

True, but a helluvalot less tried.

So I have to ask again, WTF do the Visegrads want???

Fair question.
OP Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
24 Sep 2020 #19
I'm all for "Festung Europa"....but we still need to take care of those who still come through....and we need to support those who have real claims....we can't let them starve to death on our doors!

That just doesn't look good...
AntV 2 | 167
24 Sep 2020 #20
we can't let them starve to death on our doors!

I agree, reason I think a very adamant declaration of turning all away is important-to keep as many away as possible.

Not only doesn't look good, but is morally derelict.
AntV 2 | 167
24 Sep 2020 #22
Totally, but, on the bright side, it appears that more and more Western leaders are waking up to the threat of these mass migrations. Maybe a little too little too late, but it beats the perpetuation of the sh!ttier situation we've experienced over last decade or so.

And, y'know, BB, I'd never ever be the one to rub somebody's nose in it, but if you would've only listened to me back in 2015....:):):)
OP Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
24 Sep 2020 #23
Heeeey.....my name isn't Bratmerkel!!!

'night :)
AntV 2 | 167
24 Sep 2020 #24
Well, maybe not now.

Dobranoc!
Ironside 49 | 10,817
25 Sep 2020 #25
This new pact made a big move towards the Visegrads..

How it was a big move? Honesty BB I don't see anything new in that proposal except empty promises.
Look, you had a sex with somebody who claimed to be clean and healthy. She gave you STD. Some time latter she comes back and says - look it won't happened again I WILL go the the hospital and do a proper check up, and you can always use protection...but BEFORE all that lets have a quick tumble eh?

Would you bite?

with quicker screening BEFORE

Yes, we heard that all before I'm sure your promise is so much more credible you pinky swear this time right?

only accepted people get distributed in the EU.

Right that new right here, so people properly checked and accepted. How long will it take and how much it gonna cost? If we are talking about millions taken in NOW, a new wave. What about the next one? If you keep letting people in they will just keep coming. Is that difficult to grasp?

.what more do they want?

I guess a sensible law that says that people who illegally cross or try to cross a border shouldn't be allowed to stay.
OP Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,552
25 Sep 2020 #26
And what about those who have a real claim under the Law of Asylum? The real refugees?
Ironside 49 | 10,817
25 Sep 2020 #27
The real refugees should try countries their country borders with. Whilst all should try proper channels' to claim an asylum. There are procedures and ways to be used. Nowadays there is more ways to communicate and get things done than even 50 years ago that doesn't involve perilous journey into unknow.

Apart of everything else reliable study shows that people who are really vulnerable and in need most oft than not cannot afford or are unable to travel.

Why all the Africa and middle east are aiming for Europe anyways. There are a plenty of rich countries in those regions - shouldn't they take a shot at some help?

Last but not least which countries specifically destroyed Libya and Kadaifi? Shouldn't they take a special care of the consequences rather than shift that on others? At the very least they should take care of their banksters and such ... a very good care!

the Law of Asylum?

You mean the new law,. Those to lobbed for it should be investigated as it is too much of a everything to be a pure coincidence.
Joker 2 | 1,416
25 Sep 2020 #28
First steps first....all members need to agree to that first!!! :)

Europeans have never been able to get along with one another for any decent period of time.What has changed?

. Not a good partner.

The only reason Turkey was allowed into NATO is because of their huge Army and the other European countries have feckless policies and are basically just for show, all talk. bla bla bla. I love to see European finally agree on something that is total PC rubbish!

Have a nice day😊
Tacitus 2 | 1,214
25 Sep 2020 #29
shouldn't they take a shot at some help?

Sure, but they won't because they are run autocrats who don't care for anything but their embezzled money. Not to mention that you can hardly expect e.g. of an Iranian apostate to go to Saudi Arabia.

Many posters on this forum claim to be Christians. As such they must know the story of the good Samaritan. Not helping others because those in an easier position have refused so first was certainly not the message Jesus wanted to spread.

There are procedures and ways to be used.

In most cases, there are not.

and in need most need

Just because there may be others in more need outside of our reach doesn't mean we can ignore those who are in also in need but in our reach.

countries specifically destroyed Libya

Not that I have any love for this foolhardy intervention, but I really don't think that this kind of accounting would suit Polish interests. Because Poland participated in the illegal Iraq war that did more than anything to destabilize the region, with consequences we feel to this day.
pawian 176 | 14,299
25 Sep 2020 #30
Because Poland participated in the illegal Iraq war t

Yes, "don`t forget Poland."


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