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Genealogy and history of Greece and Macedonia

OP southern 75 | 7,096
14 Jun 2011 #61
Yes,although it may seem strange some modern greek inhabitants claim pelasgian ancestry.The old distinction between Dorians Ionians Aolians is somewhat alive in the islands.Generally people on the islands(Ionians) are more mild,artistic and gay like while Dorians(Macedonians,Spartians) are more heavy,serious,slow.

Many words and accents of ionian dialect sre still alive on islands like Cyclades while Aeolian words are still spoken on Lesbos.Cretan has lots of ancient greek words.Some cretan words are found in poems such as Ilias.
George8600 10 | 637
14 Jun 2011 #62
Why are YOU here George, how Polish are YOU, in fact how Polish is Nathan or Terq ???

Nathan is a Jewish name so he might be a Polish-Jew...Torq is 100% Polish, and I'm 50% Polish and 50% Greek. Ta-da... so fiye apotho kondo-psoli....

I defend and Protect Hellenism on the Internet and elsewhere!

Is that your day job? How much is the rent going for in your moms basement? Stop being a tool, I know why you came poison the atmosphere since those balkan/nationalist forums...including the TONS of nationalistic virtual battles on YouTube are a wormhole of craziness and a black hole of rationalism... I know you didn't come here to escape all of that... It's always the same story, "We're the original Westerers, we invented everything, the other gay countries stole it all, we are superior, they stole it from us and we will soon get it back!, our ancestors Alexander, Plato, Leonidas, Homer, and others will be proud of us....we're _______ (insert Balkan country name)."

What utter crap coverup....a cover up for lack of progression and slackness in culture and innovation in the balkans....if all this 'superiorism' existed then the Balkans would be like Italy and have a continuum of innovation and cultural prospering, rather you guys let the Turks rape you and now you sit around dreaming and arguing what the ancients did.

What I don't get is why the hell you guys argue nationalism, borders, constitutions, and religions of your countries when NONE of that stuff existed in ancient times. As if Plato with his IQ of over 200 would have been around today saying he was emotionally orgasmic for being Greek and that he would spam forums and make racial slurs. Actually he told us that ethnicities were mere creation of man to run republicas (forms of sovereigns, governance, society, and civics) so that societal prospering can occur, or exploiting of humans directly or indirectly, or the development of community for human survival, or to establish a sovereign to avoid human chaos, etc. Aristotle didn't even believe in the ethnicity, just races....he was too busy opening up orangutans and comparing their organ structure with humans....and then claiming humans and animals are similar due to common roots.... (yes there were many people who theorized evolution prior to Darwin). With that being said...if the Balkans cared about their 'ancestors' they'd take the time to read these golden works instead of claiming 'bloodlines' to them and then sitting behind a computer "defending" some man-made flag color and border shape. Truth is according to someone like Plato, I am much more Greek than you.

Hey Southern, do any of the ancient ethnic distinctions between Greeks still carry water now? The pre-Greek inhabitants of Greece are sometimes called Pelasgians. Does anyone in Greece still claim Pelasgian ethnicity?

yes...nationalists do...they might say I am spartan or athenian and crap...the normal people just say I am Greek. Btw, Pelagesians weren't the original inhabitants necessarily.

and what about the Dorian vs. Ionian rivalry has that been forgotten too?

yep...just like the Greek vs. Macedonian, Albanian vs. Kosovo, Bulgarian vs. Macedonian, Greek vs. Turkish rivalries will be forgotten as well with time being....I guarantee it.... much more since ancient rivalries were much more serious than the internet ones of today and included bloodshed. As George Carlin would say: "It's all bull$hit and it ain't good for you ladies and gentlemen."

Greeks are very good at lying and cheating,

You know those stereotypes are like the Polish stupid jokes...which I know make you keel over....

Yes - some Macedonian lands are still under Greek occupation. We have already established that.

Yes from acts that happened well over 2,000 years ago...and all the Balkan borders were erased for thousands of years of the Roman Empire, Byzantium, and Ottoman Empire...I doubt any of the borders in the Balkans are accurate. But Torq, what about the German and Lithuanian lands under Polish occupation from just a century ago ;-) Maybe Greeks should give up Macedonia and Poland can give up the Danzig, Silesia, and Lithuanian lands and we can call it fair game? Of course you'd never agree with that, since nationalistic emotions hypocritically brew in you as well...just like the Greeks...only difference the country. After Poland was raped inside and out by the Russians and Germans, just as the Turks did to Greece; borders were up for grabs, and the Greco's and Polak's got what they could get their hands on.

as ancient Romans have with today's Italians LOL

Don't flame Italians...Greeks and Polish people wish they could have a country as prosperous as Italy...
Nick the Greek
14 Jun 2011 #63
Is that your day job?

1...No, I am here to enlighten our Slav brothers on Macedonian matters, full stop!

2...Such a low opinion of Balkan people but you are right. Greece did well to isolate itself from Balkan mentality for the best part of three generations but now with communism gone freedom is here, Greece has found itself in a region of the world dominated by Slavic and Turkic Interests...Hellenism means little here, and with the break-up of Yugoslavia things in the Balkans have a taken a turn for the worst, for the Greeks I mean!

Allow me to ask from you this George...Does your 50% Greek side permit you to relinquish your partial Greek history and heritage to
a people that ridicule and humiliate Greeks at every oppertunity and consider Hellenism to be a loaded word, I am talking about a people that would readily take from Hellenism all those things attributed to ancients Greeks in order to attribute them to NoN Greeks.

Would George tell his children that Alexander the Great was Not actually the Greek-Hellenic of Macedon but rather Aleksandar Veliki, the first Czar of some obscure SerboBulgarian speaking "ethnic Macedonians" me George, would you relinquish your heritage, I mean, even 50% of it!

Macedonians try the same to present themselves as descendants of ancient Macedonians while this is quite dubious.

You jest, right dude!

What sort of leftwing gaylesbian, fifth columnist radical activist comment was that!
OP southern 75 | 7,096
14 Jun 2011 #64
that Alexander the Great

Look man,whether Alexander the Great feked and beat or not what matters is what we are now and now we are in full sh1t if you understand that.There is no Greek today who can be compared to a hair of the balls of Pericles,Aristoteles etc so to rely on the glory of ''our ancestors'' is at least counterproductive.

of leftwing gaylesbian, fifth columnist radical activist comment was that!

There are so many descendants of Albanian Arvanites in Greece that you should know that.So many albanian names and surnames.They regard themselves Greek but deep inside they are still Albanians.We also have Turks,Slavs,Vlachs to deny them it is an illusion.Better be in terms with what we are now.

Slavs in my opinion are the most non threatening among them generally Slavs have always been passive and peaceful.All sides always use the crazy Albanian with the gun but somehow this has to be stopped.
Nick the Greek
14 Jun 2011 #65
1...You are right but even with your somewhat negative appraisal...the continuity path of least resistance still runs through the
modern Greeks more so than any other modern people. The Hellenic element, be it fragmented is there if you look for it, , you won't find it chasing the Albanian Path or the Slavic Path or the Turkic Path. Todays Greeks are the modern representatives of the ancient Greeks, here we No talk about direct blood relation to hais on Pericles Bollox, katalaves!

2...How many dude, quantiy that statement. If 50% of modern Greece is Arvanite or Vlach or Slav or Turk, that still leaves enough Greeks to defend and protect their heritage, katalaves!

3...Albanians stay Albanians...Hellenized Albanians must stay loyal to Greece and Hellenism otherwise they stay Albanian, foreigners!

4...Greeks No deny neighbouring peoples the right to Hellenize themselves [[willingly][voluntarily]]

5...What are we now dude ???

6...Slavs, I always considered brother people, untill that is, a portion of them sided with the Turk to ridicule and humiliate the modern Greek and another portion of them faithfully follow a Slavist Revisionist version of history above and beyond that of the long established Mainstream version, you know, the one that is adhered to by the International academic fraternity!

7...Albanians are not as Tuff as you make them out to be!

Consider this:

If ancient Hellenes* died out, expired for whatever reason and left us No heirs to Inherit their legacy...Philologists and Linguists, Anthropologists, Classicist Scholars and general Historians would still have placed them into the Greek Domain, into the Greek-Hellenic Collective of peoples...That Collective would have Included ancient Macedonians* in it as well, right!

As luck would have it, Greeks exist...

The Greeks, and not Greece the country as Greece is a recent Political Construct, all modern Nation States are recent Political Constructs, born from the ashes of defunct empires and an Ideology, Imperialsm, which reached it's azimuth and had to give way to change...

The Greeks...since from the mythical days of the Argonauts to the present, neither the peninsula of Hellas nor Ionia and the Aegean Islands have been large enough to hold the far-wandering Hellenes. Greek is a language and a civilization, the Greeks a people; the Greeks are the descendants of all the peoples who have adopted and retained that language and that civilization from classical times to the present. Some of these converts to Hellenicism were inhabitants of Asia Minor, others of Thrace and Byzantium, others of the lands bordering the Black Sea, especially the Crimea, katalaves!

Nobody except fools talk about direct blood connections to ancient peoples, I talk only of todays Greeks being the modern representatives of the ancient Greeks, that representation in continuity terms, the path of least resistance runs through the modern Greek population and nobody else, todays Greeks are the closest modern people to ancient Greeks in any which way you care to mention, kataleves!
George8600 10 | 637
14 Jun 2011 #66
Lol I think Nick the "Greek" is an Albanian....that explains a lot of his bullcrap logic and attempt to tell us that all modern Greeks are descendants of an Albanian Shepherd. Is that how you defend your bs when I reference the intellectual ancients? Oh brother....your view is one of very few...even in the Balkans. So why don't you go to an Albanian forum to now ENLIGHTEN them with these new historical 'facts'. Don't get me wrong...I like Albanians and even have a couple good Albanian friends... but I'm half Greek/half Polish. Idk how Albanian you truly are... did you come to this forum with the name Nick the Greek thinking people wouldn't listen to you if it was Nick the Albanian?

The Greeks, and not Greece the country as Greece is a recent Political Construct

ta....da....but then idk why it's followed by this b.s. :

Nobody except fools talk about direct blood connections to ancient peoples

wtf is that supposed to mean Mr. Albo? Let me put this in another example.... "Yea I'm going to be the next queen of blood connection, but I'll be a modern representative..... what? no you can't be the queen of England because you are not an official representative.... of course it's legit look here I wrote it on this fine peace of paper with a cool looking stamp and seal."
Nick the Greek
14 Jun 2011 #67
ta....da....but then idk why it's followed by this b.s.

Infantile Waffle and Froth!

Todays Greeks are the modern Representatives of the ancient Greeks Hellenes Yunans

in the same way...

Todays Jews are the modern Representatives of the ancient Jews Hebrews Israelites

Nick the Greek: Yunans

Yunans = Ionians, right!

50% of your ancient ancestors were known as Greeks in the West, Hellenes in their own Homelands and Yunans in the East, you know that, right George...

...Infantile little git!
George8600 10 | 637
15 Jun 2011 #68
Yunan is of Turkish association. Wtf mate, are you an Albanian or Turk? You keep linking Greekness to this...I don't mind if you are, but don't burden the rest of us Greeks with it...
boletus 30 | 1,366
15 Jun 2011 #69
In meantime, the squabbling parties of this thread failed to notice this:

A giant 22-meter high statue of Alexander the Great is being assembled in Skopje, the capital of Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia. The monument will surely become another bone of contention between the former republic of Yugoslavia, and Greece. Athens also treat of Alexander the Great as their national hero.

The big parts of the bronze statue were transported to the central square of Skopje on Tuesday. In the next few days they will be combined and set on a 10 m tall concrete pedestal. The bronze figure of Alexander the Great, sitting on a horse, will be 12 meters high. The great statue will be towering above many buildings in the city center.

The monument of the leader is to be surrounded by four bronze lions and eight three-meter tall bronze statues of soldiers. One of them represents the father of Alexander - Philip II of Macedon. The whole installation, designed by sculptor Valentina Stevanovska, is expected to cost around six million euros.

Macedonians, struggling with economic crisis, feel that they can not afford such an extravagance in a country where 30 percent of its citizens live in poverty and unemployment reaches 32 percent. The average wage in Macedonia is the equivalent of about $ 460 a month.

OP southern 75 | 7,096
15 Jun 2011 #70
And everyone laughed in Europe when we raised scuptures of Alexander the Great in greek Macedonia.Now they will call him Sasha the Veliki.
Nick the Greek
15 Jun 2011 #71
My understanding of the Official Title of the Staue shall be..."Warrior On A Horse"...with No Inscriptions of Alexander the Great or Aleksandar Veliki on it!

Extreme Silliness any way...FYRoM shall go down in the recorded history of Mankind as being Culture Thieves!

Yunan is of Turkish association. Wtf mate, are you an Albanian or Turk? You keep linking Greekness to this...

George dude, are that Ignorant really!

1...Ancient Jews called the ancient Greeks "Yavans"

2...Ancient Persians called the ancient Greeks "Yauna" and ancient Macedonians "Yauna Takabara," meaning those Greeks with sun hats due to the unique Macedonian [helmet] headware!

3...Ancient Hinus called ancient Greeks "Unan," look up Unani ancient Greek Medicine, google search as seen!

4...Ancient Arabs called ancient Greeks al-Yunaan [Yunan]

Recap...Greeks are known as Greeks in the West, Hellenes in their own Homelands and Yunan or derivative in the East, it means Ionian Greeks, these were the first Greeks the eastern oriental people met as opposed to the Graeco Greeks the early latin and Etruscan peoples met in the West.

I came here to enlighten our Slav brothers, but it seems I am enlightening You...on your own heritage!
George8600 10 | 637
15 Jun 2011 #72
called the ancient Greeks "Yauna" and ancient Macedonians "Yauna Takabara,"

nice to see you finally make the distinction :-)
Nick the Greek
15 Jun 2011 #73
nice to see you finally make the distinction

Are you for real George!

Yauna = Greek

Yauna Takabara = Greek with Hat

What was that silly little brain of yours thinking George!

George made the distinction between Greeks and Greeks with hats!

Ancient Persians knew they were dealing with ancient Greeks...Modern [Persians] Iranians, No accept Slavist revisionism for obvious reasons!
Crow 137 | 7,886
26 Sep 2018 #74
Serbia and Greece aggravated relations because of Greek stance on Macedonia. Trend of aggravation is viable and one can feel it almost physically. Greeks considers Slavs to be infidels and that is the main problem, while Serbs see Greeks as thieves of Slavic history- same as we have perception of Italians. Plus, unlike some countries and peoples that don`t have backbone Serbians aren`t ready to subjugate their vital interests for the sake of certain global powers.

So Serbians stay Slavic (ie Sarmatian) hard-liners.

Macedonians on referendum refused to change name of state into Northern Macedonia, refused NATO, refused EU. NATO and EU were also mentioned in question on referendum. Macedonians see NATO and EU as anti-Macedonian and anti-Slavic.



Bratwurst Boy 5 | 10,189
30 Sep 2018 #75
I believe that has more to do with the Greeks...

It's Greece which keeps them out of NATO and EU because of their naming....they are all really hard core about it...abit like Serbia and the Kosovo...

I tell ya...the Balkan...if I had a say not one of these Balkan crazies would make it in (okay, besides Croatia...they have Luka Modric!:)
Crow 137 | 7,886
30 Sep 2018 #76
Luka Modric

and he is Serbian and half of his family was exterminated in Croat ustashe death camp Jasenovac during WWII, so Modric now hides fact of being Serbian. He must. Serbs are forbidden and must become Croats. That is all very acceptable to EU because we all know EU is one great Nazi-Islamic death camp. Exactly as Hitler wanted.

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