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Which PF expats are corporate "sleepers"?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
14 Jan 2016 #1
Following the pro/anti-governemtn debate from the sidelines seems to make it increasingly clear that some of PF's KOD backers have a vested interest at stake. Just as political espionage involves strategically planting sleepers in different countries to engage in undercover sabotage and provocations, who knows if there aren't some corproate sleepers on PF. The more they support and laud KOD, the more likely it appears they may be getting kickbacks for their efforts.

They may hold or plan to take out Polish citizenship in a bid to gain credibiltiy and may loudly profess their love of and loyalty to Poland, but who pays the piper calls the tune. The global giants eager to maintain Poland's economic semi-colonial and mercenary status can afford to generously reimburse them for their dedication.

Which of the expats do you think would most like fit the bill?
Harry
14 Jan 2016 #2
Given the commonly accepted definition of ex-pat as compared to immigrant or migrant (sent to work a foreign country by an foreign employer), I'm struggling to think of any ex-pats other than you who post at PF. Certainly all the Brits here are migrants now, and some of the people who post here who used to Brits are now Polish, unlike people such as your good self who refuse to be Polish (due to the need to give up your prized US passport and that pesky police background check).
NocyMrok
14 Jan 2016 #3
Brits are now Polish

There's not a single Brit in Poland who became Polish. That's why we are distinguishing narodowość and obywatelstwo.

As for the Op. The topic would require to name and shame PF members which shouldn't ever happen. Instead and since I do have an opinion about some persons here I'll say that it seems ones that live among the establishment and/or higher classes might be protecting their interests by defending so called "liberalism". If their sexual preferences are against nature in addition then it is another factor proving they care only about their own wellbeing.
Harry
14 Jan 2016 #4
There's not a single Brit in Poland who became Polish.

That may well be the view of certain members of Polonia, but the Polish State is very definite in its view to the exact opposite, and frankly that's the decision which counts.

The topic would require to name and shame PF members which shouldn't ever happen.

Yes, you're right, we really shouldn't name and shame the PF member who bought property worth millions of zloty despite only having the salary of a print media hack and did so purely because the contacts he made while collaborating with the secret police enabled him to buy formerly state-owned property for a song. Doing that would be wrong, and he's a VIP poster!
NocyMrok
14 Jan 2016 #5
Polish State is very definite

Yes it is. That's why on every single legal document narodowość and obywatelstwo are two separate questions. Polish State definitely distinguish them.

Conclusion is you don't have to be a Pole to be treated as such but on the other hand being treated as a Pole doesn't make you Polish.
Harry
14 Jan 2016 #6
That's why on every single legal document narodowość and obywatelstwo are two separate questions.

Really? I must say that I'm having trouble locating the "narodowosc" section on Polish passports and ID cards. It's a real pity that neither you nor the OP can look at your Polish passports or ID cards and tell me where narodowosc is even mentioned. Clearly this is another example of the knowledge self-described Polonia have of what may have once been Poland (but probably never was) having no connection at all with what actually is Poland.
NocyMrok
14 Jan 2016 #7
Passport and ID are just simplified. Go buy a house, take a loan, create a bank account or even fill in the form to get new ID card. I am in Poland. Next month I'm going back to UK to close accounts, pay bills etc. and then going home permanently. Anyways. Having a passport doesn't make you Polish. Being a British citizen doesn't make me a Briton. Simples
Harry
14 Jan 2016 #8
Go buy a house, take a loan, create a bank account or even fill in the form to get new ID card.

I've done all of those things in Poland, clearly unlike you; never once was I asked about my narodowosc, in fact if would be illegal for me to have been asked about my ethnicity.
Ironside 48 | 9,847
14 Jan 2016 #9
never once was I asked about my narodowosc

Have you been asked for your criminal record?
Roger5 1 | 1,458
14 Jan 2016 #10
Polonius, if you had asked the question: Who do you think is the most likely PF member to have been paid for posting thousands of anti-PO posts? I would say you. I can't imagine any of the people you suspect being that bothered. PiS will self-implode in the next couple of years anyway, so no-one really needs to do anything to damage them. They do the damage themselves.
Harry
14 Jan 2016 #11
your criminal record?

Never been asked for that, or more specifically to prove that I don't have one. The police check criminal record and general background for themselves and report back to the requesting authority, which is one reason some people here refuse to apply for a Polish passport and ID card. I've gone through the process many times, but I have nothing to hide, unlike some people.
NocyMrok
14 Jan 2016 #12
Harry. I've done those things many times too and I clearly remember nationality and citizenship being separate. Maybe something has changed recently and I simply didn't even notice taking into account I'm used to those questions. I still object to call foreigners with Polish passport Poles as well as I don't call myself a Briton. Being of particular nation is a question of ethnicity and being a citizen is strictly legal. Nothing wrong with that. Actually I can't see anything wrong in asking about ethnic origins in a neutral manner. It's just sensitiveness and weakness of the West destroys values important to me.
jon357 63 | 14,152
14 Jan 2016 #13
I clearly remember nationality and citizenship being separate

Nope. The only time I've been asked about nationality here in the last two decades was for the Census and for market research by advertisers.
Harry
14 Jan 2016 #14
I've done those things many times too and I clearly remember nationality and citizenship being separate.

Clearly you haven't done them in Poland in the past 21 years (if at all). I'm wondering which part of 'it is illegal to ask people about their ethnicity when they are buying a house / applying for a loan / getting ID' you are having trouble understanding.
NocyMrok
14 Jan 2016 #15
Still "być Polakiem" =/= "być obywatelem Polski"

it is illegal to ask people about their ethnicity

Clearly you can't read. I know it's illegal due to the sensitivity and weakness of the West. I just said that personally I see nothing wrong in asking such question
jon357 63 | 14,152
14 Jan 2016 #16
wondering which part of 'it is illegal to ask people about their ethnicity when they are buying a house / applying for a loan / getting ID' you are having trouble understanding.

I'm wondering too. If you're a citizen of that country, that and only that matter. Nationality and ethnicity are a matter for individuals and how they choose to identify themselves.
NocyMrok
14 Jan 2016 #17
Not true. If you're a Brit with Polish passport and ethnically consider yourself Polish then you are plain wrong. Ethnicity is not something you can pick in.
jon357 63 | 14,152
14 Jan 2016 #18
Ethnicity is not something you can pick in.

It's entirely subjective. If a lot of the worst of the PiS supporters did a dna test or spoke to their deceased great granny they might be very surprised indeed.

Ethnicity isn't fixed at birth. You are what you consider yourself to be.
NocyMrok
14 Jan 2016 #19
So if I think about myself an Eskimo then I am one?
jon357 63 | 14,152
14 Jan 2016 #20
Well, NocyMrok, that would depend entirely on whether it was your fantasy or the reality of your life, wouldn't it now...

After all, there's no such thing as an 'Eskimo Citizen' is there, whereas many people over the years have become Poles.
NocyMrok
14 Jan 2016 #21
Reality is one. If you're half British, 1/3 German, 1/3 Russian and 1/3 Afghanian. Then you're not Polish even if you live here and feel like it.

Eskimo Citizen

We are talking about ethnicity not citizenship and like I stated being a Pole is not equivalent to being a citizen of Poland. Simples
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
14 Jan 2016 #22
Ethnicity isn't fixed at birth.

Yes it is -- DNA is the objective determinator of genetic ethnicity. It cannot be willed, willed away or changed. Ethnic awareness is a subjective matter -- one is what one regards oneself as being. Then there is a totally artificial and bureacratic criterion -- state belonging or citizenship. By DNA, the Know-All Blowhard for example is probably Anglo or Anglo-Celtic with a possible Michnikite admixture (he refuses to answer: R U 1 2?), whilst being a ciitzen of South Africa, Austrlaia, the UK, Falklands or whatever country in which he chooses to stay two steps against the international arrest warrant he seems to be fleeing, now hoping his Polish sojourn will throw his pursuers off his trail.
jon357 63 | 14,152
14 Jan 2016 #23
Reality is one

Reality is everything. Just think how many Jewish Poles exist, or how many Poles of Lithuanian, German, or Ukrainian background live in Poland. Their entire roots elsewhere but nevertheless they are 100% Poles.
NocyMrok
14 Jan 2016 #24
We're they born in Poland? Did they live in Poland? Do they think Polish? Do they respect and consider Polish values most important? Do they call no other country home?

I am talking mostly about 1st generation of expats such as yourself. In this aspect you aren't Polish even if you're a citizen of my country.
Harry
14 Jan 2016 #25
It cannot be willed, willed away or changed.

Which is unfortunate for you, given that you want to be Polish but very simply are not, as is shown by your lack of even a single Polish grandparent and thus your inability to get a Polish passport by descent. Poor you.

the international arrest warrant he seems to be fleeing

If I was fleeing an arrest warrant, I'd pick a country where the police don't make routine background and interpol checks on everybody who is applying for a residency permit. You clearly know that the police here make routine background and interpol checks on everybody who is applying to naturalise as a Polish citizen, that's one of the reasons you refuse to get a Polish passport.

throw his pursuers off his trail.

Perhaps you'd like to tell us what I'm being pursued for? But before you do that, why not tell us how much you purchased your current property for and where the money for the purchase came from? It's no secret among your former colleagues, but perhaps you'd like to tell us too?
jon357 63 | 14,152
14 Jan 2016 #26
We're they born in Poland?

Thousands of Poles (of varying roots) certainly weren't.

Did they live in Poland?

How else would someone become Polish?

Do they think Polish?

Do all 40 million 'think' the same?

Do they respect and consider Polish values most important?

Does everyone agree on what constitutes 'Polish values'?

Do they call no other country home?

Ask Mr Kowalski who lived half his life in one place and half in another.
NocyMrok
14 Jan 2016 #27
They had Polish parents. They see Poland as motherland. They subconsciously live to our common values. What about you? What makes you a Pole besides thinking that about yourself?
jon357 63 | 14,152
14 Jan 2016 #28
They had Polish parents. They see Poland as motherland

Not much of an answer, and historically many Poles most certainly didn't have parents who identified as Polish.

They subconsciously live to our common values

Hahahaha - everybody?? Perhaps when 'common values' are ever agreed upon, people can 'subconsciously' abide by them. Until then, Poland (and Polishness) is rather more sophisticated than you either like or can handle.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
14 Jan 2016 #29
Polish values

Bóg - Honor - Ojczyzna are the supreme Polish values. They plus DNA determine who is and who is not a Pole.
jon357 63 | 14,152
14 Jan 2016 #30
Nonsense, Po3. The culture is much richer, more cosmopolitan and more complex than that, However much you (as a foreigner who pours scorn on the concept of Polish nationality) dislike it.


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