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Why PF has died.


Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,641
13 May 2021 #61
I wouldn't describe this feeling more and more have as "Ostalgia" though...that would mean a kind of yearning for these times...quite the contrary actually!
Novichok 1 | 5,113
13 May 2021 #62
that Polish immigrant to the US, Ricky Mazur.

I lied. Never been to Poland and my name is not Ricky Mazur - just as yours is not Zero.
Tacitus 2 | 1,446
13 May 2021 #63
Not even the "good cause"

That is like saying that e.g. enviromental laws are also similar since they are also for a good cause. We have laws against inciting hatred against others, since history has taught us what can happen otherwise.

Allesdichtmachen" not shocked you?

What bothers me about this is action by clearly misguided and clueless actors got so much attention in the first place. I like Liefers as an actor in my favourite Tatort, but he shouldn't talk about things he has zero qualification for. Kinda like those hypocritical Hollywood actors who preach over equality while they live in their giant mansions. Those people who do know what they are talking about - e.g. those working in hospitals - condemned this action for very good reasons.

Wessi you don't know what path we are on.

No offense, but I often get the feelings that many Ossis are still getting used to living in a democracy. In a way many of them are similar to those misguided students from 1968, seeing fascism and authoritarianism everywhere. Give it another 30 years and that anxiety should subside.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,641
13 May 2021 #64
We have laws against inciting hatred against others, since history has taught us what can happen otherwise.

Nah its not. Who says what is "hatred"? Another opinion than the government? Alone the framing "Hass und Hetze" is totally subjective and can be used for whatever....thats the problem. Also that wishy washy word "Demokratieförderung"....its this easily bendable wording which makes these laws easy to use for those with power!

Oh and in a democracy EVERYBODY should be able to say his opinion without having to fear for their careers....not only a selected few whose opinion is officially "acceptable"!

Do you see where we are going?

No offense, but I often get the feelings that many Ossis are still getting used to living in a democracy.

Maybe we are just more sensitized to possible losses because we remember the times without, whereas many Wessis take everything they had been given for granted because they never experienced the loss?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,641
13 May 2021 #65
Give it another 30 years and that anxiety should subside.

You presume it doesn't get any worse....I just hope!

Na ja...we will see....

Have to leave now! 'night
Novichok 1 | 5,113
13 May 2021 #66
Just curious...Do you Germans have your own forums like this one or are you still afraid to speak freely fearing your new, Western EU-style Gestapo?
Joker 2 | 2,176
13 May 2021 #67
.Do you Germans have your own forums

They were banned... ATF All Things Polish was PFs rival until they shut it down.

THREAD OPEN

Im surprised the libtards in the USA haven't tried to ban any forums that doesnt agree with their socialist mantra ( like twitter)
Novichok 1 | 5,113
13 May 2021 #68
Who banned them? Their "democratic" government or Putin's FSB?

Im surprised the libtards in the USA haven't tried to ban any forums

Ban? These bastards already got the blueprints for re-education camps from China.

The thread continues to stay open.

Oh and in a democracy EVERYBODY should be able to say his opinion without having to fear for their careers...

Are you able to say your opinions in Germany? I mean any opinion, not just what your Ministry of Thoughts has approved. Like that Hitler wasn't always wrong - which is as true as that it's May now.
Joker 2 | 2,176
13 May 2021 #69
Who banned them? Their "democratic" government or Putin's FSB?

Some new law the EU passed, its was like 2 years ago... BB knows all the details.

THREAD OPEN!
Novichok 1 | 5,113
13 May 2021 #70
Some new law the EU passed, its was like 2 years ago...

Must have been to promote that EU brotherly love or else...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,641
14 May 2021 #71
BB knows all the details.

Not the details....only that it made alot of people really scared....nobody knew anything only that maybe any innocent board admin could now be heavily punished for everything even if its not in his power...so Torq closed PF down....just to be sure...

"The General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) is the toughest privacy and security law in the world. Though it was drafted and passed by the European Union (EU), it imposes obligations onto organizations anywhere, so long as they target or collect data related to people in the EU."

gdpr.eu/what-is-gdpr/
Novichok 1 | 5,113
14 May 2021 #72
Not the details....only that it made alot of people really scared.

Hey, BB, quit bs-ing and tell me straight up if you could post on a German forum - if still have any- under your true name, the following sentence:

In my opinion, Hitler was not always wrong. He also loved Germany.

Now, don't give me any crap that the above is not true or open to debate. That is not the issue. The question is if you could post it or say it without any bad consequences from your government.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,641
14 May 2021 #73
I could post that....but why should I? Its just not true!

After his "show of love" Germany was in ruins, his image and his people destroyed, half of its territory lost....it was occupied and partitioned for decades....what "love" is that.

I could also post "the Earth is flat"....or that the Chinese Virus is a conspiracy by some jewish? secret world government....sure....but afterwards I wouldn't be taken seriously for any discussion anymore either. I would become lonely on any german forum pretty quick soon.

And yes, credibility is the issue here! In a discussion board the only one you have....
Novichok 1 | 5,113
14 May 2021 #74
I could post that....but why should I? Its just not true!

I knew I would get a weasel response and you, predictably, delivered just that.

Now, don't give me any crap that the above is not true or open to debate.

Just a reminder why you are a weasel...

I could post that....but why should I?

No, you couldn't and you wouldn't post it because your Stasi, the EU-style, is watching.

Its just not true!

You are a liar. "Hitler was not always wrong. He also loved Germany" are absolutely true since nobody is always 100% wrong and he loved Germany.

I chose those two statements to prevent a weasel from weaseling out, but you still tried.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,641
14 May 2021 #75
Well....you are a one-trick-pony....or more like a "broken record". You keep asking the same question over and over again....and so you will get always the same answer!

I wouldn't even post "Hitler loved Germany" seriously on PF, then why should I do that on a german forum?

And no, he didn't love Germany....or maybe he did like you do....totally destroyed best!
Tacitus 2 | 1,446
14 May 2021 #76
In my opinion, Hitler was not always wrong. He also loved Germany.

He did not love it though. He loved the idea of it being the supreme country of Europe, but once that proved to be untrue he washed his hands of it, saying the German people who "failed" him deserved to be destroyed. If he actually had loved his country, he would have put a bullet into his brain at least a year earlier than he eventually did.
Novichok 1 | 5,113
14 May 2021 #77
totally destroyed best!

No. Germany was destroyed by the USSR and the US.
But, predictably, the two weasels still refuse to say anything about the thought control in Germany. Instead, they switch to how bad Hitler was.

He did not love it though.

Sure he did. There are only three ways you can feel about your own country: love it, hate it, and being indifferent. What he did to show his love is another matter.

Back to my point: you two would be too scared to say that Hitler wasn't always wrong and he loved Germany because this is what scared weasels do.

If that's too hard on you, why are you both here on an American forum about Poland? Did you consider forums in Austria or Mongolia?
Vincent 9 | 863 Moderator
14 May 2021 #78
If that's too hard on you, why are you both here on an American forum about Poland? Did you consider forums in Austria or Mongolia?

The server is located in the USA, but PF forums are for all international members and quests.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,641
14 May 2021 #79
No. Germany was destroyed by the USSR and the US.

And you love it! Is that the reason why you like Hitler? Because he and his followers had been the reason for Germany's destruction? That would make at least a tiny bit of sense...even only a weird one....

What he did to show his love is another matter.

I agree with Tacitus, Hitler loved an idea of a Germany, not Germany the real existing country! Or otherwise he wouldn't had seen a need to expell, terrorize and murder so many of its citizens before he attacked its neighbours.

Remember, bevor he attacked Poland he drove hundreds of thousands out, jailed everybody he found "undesirable", murdered babies for being "unworthy" of life....

He was full of hate and contempt for everybody who didn't fit his inhuman ideal! His dream became the nightmare of millions, and as his vision was burnt to ash in the end he dared to blame those who stood by him till the last.

That has nothing to do with real love, he was a maniac...a nutter....

PS: If Hitler would rule today I probably wouldn't dare to say anything else but how my mighty Führer loves his country...because of fear for my life...but it still wouldn't be true!

why are you both here on an American forum about Poland?

I for one feel strong ties to Poland due my family history...I'm very interested in the happenings there....I got alot from the contact with Poles during the years. Sadly many of my old friends and aquaintances don't visit PF regularly any more (if at all), but I will always be glad I got to know them!

I doubt there is a similar forum in Austria or Mongolia....
Novichok 1 | 5,113
14 May 2021 #80
but PF forums are for all international members and quests.

I got that and it's great that this forum welcomes everybody. My question was about them choosing this particular forum where nobody really gives a damn about Germany and where they have to use English. It's like me using a Japanese forum to discuss Peru. Something stinks here and they are not saying...

My question is so simple that only a determined weasel has difficulty answering:

Are Germans free to speak their opinions without fear of being punished by their government? It's a yes/no question that leaves no wiggle room.

No, I am not talking about conspiring to commit a felony or urging others to commit felonies. I am not talking about losing a job, either. Only prosecution.

These two, instead of answering, immediately launch into a history lesson about how bad Hitler was. I guess once a weasel, always a weasel.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,641
14 May 2021 #81
Are Germans free to speak their opinions without fear of being punished by their government? It's a yes/no question that leaves no wiggle room.

YES

Article 5 of the german Basic Law:

"Everyone has the right to freely express and disseminate his or her opinion in words, writing and pictures"

So yes, I could write in a german forum that Hitler had loved his country. Because it would be my opinion. An embarrassing opinion but wtf...

To deny the Holocaust on the other hand doesn't fall under "opinion"...its a flat out denial of a fact. It may be acceptable in countries which hadn't had to do anything with it, but not in Germany. So that isn't allowed either, additionally the usage of the symbols of its perpetrators like the Hakenkreuz...

Not so difficult, right?

a history lesson about how bad Hitler was

Why don't you listen and learn something? Our grandparents lived through it all...

Again I wonder...you wish the worst on Germany again and again, you are so full of hate for the Germans for what they did under Hitlers rule, shouldn't you hate Hitler at least as much as Germany and the Germans???

Why the sympathy?
Novichok 1 | 5,113
14 May 2021 #82
shouldn't you hate Hitler at least as much as Germany and the Germans???

No, I should not since Hitler didn't kill anyone. But I understand why Hitler became the super evil monster and why Germans were re-labeled to be "Nazis".

It wasn't us, it was that bad dude, Hitler, and the "Nazis". Sure.

I could write in a german forum that Hitler had loved his country. Because it would be my opinion

You are lying. Quoting:

In Germany, Volksverhetzung ("incitement to hatred") is a punishable offense under Section 130 of the Strafgesetzbuch (Germany's criminal code) and can lead to up to five years' imprisonment.

I could end up in a communist prison for saying that I hate communists and the USSR., too. No difference.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,641
14 May 2021 #83
You are lying.

No, I'm not!

"Hitler loved his country" = personal opinion = erlaubt

Acting like loving Hitler as in:

"Jews are parasites who need to be gassed!" = Volksverhetzung = also a lie = verboten

(And yes, repeating that lie led to at least 6 million people murdered. That's why Germany takes such things more seriously. Thats what this law wants to stop from happening ever again!)

Is it really so difficult?
Ziemowit 13 | 4,534
14 May 2021 #84
but PF forums are for all international members and quests.

Vincent, have you ever considered kicking Ricky out of PF?

Sorry, Vincent, but I couldn't resist. And since I have this clownish immigrant to the US muted now, so cannot read his posts, please receive his insults towards me in my name.
Novichok 1 | 5,113
14 May 2021 #85
Is it really so difficult?

Dealing with a slippery weasel? Yes!

One more time:

In Germany, Volksverhetzung ("incitement to hatred") is a punishable offense under Section 130 of the Strafgesetzbuch (Germany's criminal code) and can lead to up to five years' imprisonment.

This simply means you don't have a right to speak your opinions freely if some a-hole can later decide that what you said is an "incitment to hatred" - a hole big enough to drag the Empire State building through.

Nice try to deflect again.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,641
14 May 2021 #86
Are we still talking about how much Hitler loved his country?

Because that still doesn't fall under it....its still only an idiotic opinion....and idiocy isn't forbidden!
Vincent 9 | 863 Moderator
14 May 2021 #87
And since I have this clownish immigrant to the US muted now, so cannot read his posts,

You're lucky that you can mute anyone's posts you don't wish to see. Unfortunately it's not an option for me.
jon357 69 | 18,363
14 May 2021 #88
.its still only an idiotic opinion

A less idiotic opinion would be that he loved his idea of his country however as history shows, hated the reality of his country.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,641
14 May 2021 #89
*nods*

Some people have a hard time accepting that....
Novichok 1 | 5,113
14 May 2021 #90
Are we still talking about how much Hitler loved his country?

No. I am talking about this:

In Germany, Volksverhetzung ("incitement to hatred") is a punishable offense ...

This simply means you don't have a right to speak your opinions freely if some a-hole can later decide that what you said is an "incitement to hatred" - a hole big enough to drag the Empire State building through.

Hitler was just an example and, as it turned out, an escape for the German weasels here.


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