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American understanding of Britain.


Miloslaw 6 | 2,022
17 Sep 2018  #1
This post is meant as a "Peace post" between Yanks and Brits.
Most of us on here have Polish heritage and many others have strong Polish conections.
But the lack of understanding and unity between Yanks and Brits is astounding.
We don't get you,you don't get us....but we really are not that far apart......
To kick this off,Yanks seem to see Brits as "Super PC surrender monkeys".....and yet we have just voted for Brexit.....
I urge Americans to go to youtube and search "Pat Condell"...this will give you a better idea of how many Brits see things.
Maybe Americans can then suggest stuff that will give us an insight to The American mind set.
johnny reb 17 | 3,635
18 Sep 2018  #2
Try this for a start.
What America is up against.
pro.hsionlineorders.net/p/HSI170124A/PHSIT713/?aid=55&sid1=48807410&sid2=&sid3=&sid4=&sid5=&oid=393&tid=102455eb65af55fb8789dd0b059470&h=true
OP Miloslaw 6 | 2,022
18 Sep 2018  #3
I think what is happening in The States is similar to much of Europe.
Dissilusionment with politics and politicians that don't seem to be listening to their electorate and only seem interested in furthering their careers,wealth or political agenda.

A lot of people dislike Trump but what you can't deny is that he has shaken things up a bit and is not part of the old status quo.

In Europe people are increasingly voting for more radical parties and they have been driven there by the arrogance of the politicians in power.
cms neuf - | 903
18 Sep 2018  #4
Is it so simple ? Is what you describe as arrogance actually a mixture of realism and not wanting to blame all the worlds problems on immigrants.

There are no simple answers to some of the West's biggest issues - a graying population, tech replacing jobs and satisfying their citizens higher expectations now that diphtheria and starvation are consigned it history.

All the populists suggest is either handing out free money, cutting taxes or restricting the labor market. Eventually all of those will cause deep problems and politicians who resist such solutions are maybe not arrogant but educated.
OP Miloslaw 6 | 2,022
18 Sep 2018  #5
Either way they are losing votes because of it.
jon357 63 | 14,122
18 Sep 2018  #6
Dissilusionment with politics and politicians

This is certainly happening; a growing (and partially merited) cynicism. There's also a polarisation happening, some of it deliberate on the part of people of ill-will who are skillful at manipulating the media (and social media plays a big part in this).

All bubbles eventually burst though.

Is what you describe as arrogance actually a mixture of realism and not wanting to blame all the worlds problems on immigrants.

A lot of it is. Social media has given any loudmouth a voice and this has been exploited ruthlessly. Scorn is poured on experts, pseudoscience is pushed and commited, dedicated and moderate politicians find their voices drowned out by the bloke in the pub.
OP Miloslaw 6 | 2,022
18 Sep 2018  #7
Scorn is poured on experts, pseudoscience is pushed and commited

Why is the bloke in the pub's opinion worth any less than a so called expert's?
Democacy or Meritocracy?
One person one vote.
Many of these so called experts have been proved wrong so many times that many people no longer trust them.
They prefer to trust their gut instincts.
Elitist arrogance has caused this problem.
jon357 63 | 14,122
18 Sep 2018  #8
so called expert's

Why "so-called".

these so called experts

One wonders why someone would actually bother doing a doctorate and dedicating their life to actually understanding something if people (and most in fact don't) "trust their gut instincts".

experts have been proved wrong so many times

People who know what they're discussing, who understand nuances and variable, who are in a position to see the bigger picture tend to be proven to be right far more often than they are proven to be wrong.

All societies (except perhaps the very unlamented Khmer Rouge) are to an extent meritocracies. If I want my teeth capping, I don't get it done at the barber. If I want investment advice I don't ask a random person in a queue at Aldi, if a country needs to make a strategic decision it consults experts; not just people who are loud on Twitter.
OP Miloslaw 6 | 2,022
18 Sep 2018  #9
So you ARE saying that some people's opinions or votes have less value than others,based on education and experience.
jon357 63 | 14,122
18 Sep 2018  #10
Of course. All opinions have a right to be heard, not all however have equal weight. Unless you think my opinion on inorganic chemistry has the same weight as that of a professor of inorganic chemistry...

The value of votes are equal (unless it's in America with their 'unique' system). One reason why charismatic demagogues can do so much damage.
johnny reb 17 | 3,635
19 Sep 2018  #11
Actually it was the unique system of the grace of God that let the vote turn out to stop the damage that obama did and stop Crooked Hillary from continuing with it on steroids..

TRUMP 2020 !
Keep America Great !
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,180
19 Sep 2018  #12
One reason why charismatic demagogues can do so much damage.

...and get re-elected by another truckload of white guilt.
jon357 63 | 14,122
19 Sep 2018  #13
If Tiny Hands gets re-elected, or even makes it to the end of a first term, that won't be the cause.

truckload of white guilt.

There's certainly plenty to be guilty about.
Ironside 48 | 9,705
19 Sep 2018  #14
None and that is that.
jon357 63 | 14,122
19 Sep 2018  #15
Really. Google Jim Crow.

and that is that.

Touchingly naive. Or more likely stupid, though I didn't want to state the obvious.
Ironside 48 | 9,705
19 Sep 2018  #16
Really. Google Jim Crow.

Typical. Came on, something from this century, some law or other that would support your claim.

Touchingly naive. Or more likely stupid, though I didn't want to state the obvious.

Well, obviously lefties are generally intellectual nonentities. So, I'm going to make it simple. I don't think there is any generational or racial inheritance of guilt. That group identity dogma is either radical left collectivist game or it sound a bit Jewish. Whichever it is I don't buy into it and nobody sane and with same sense should.
jon357 63 | 14,122
19 Sep 2018  #17
this century,

WWII was last century, so by your 'logic' Poles should forget about it. Segregation ended relatively recently, if it truly ended at all.
OP Miloslaw 6 | 2,022
19 Sep 2018  #18
Why do you hate Western democracy,capitalism and white people so much?
jon357 63 | 14,122
19 Sep 2018  #19
It looks like you're trying a 'strawman' argument. They don't work.

It's possible to dislike injustice against one part of society without necessarily hating every member of the part of society who benefit from that injustice. That's called nuance, a very British thing.

Interesting that you appear to be saying that disliking segregation and historical injustice equates to hating:

Western democracy,capitalism and white people

OP Miloslaw 6 | 2,022
19 Sep 2018  #20
Pure obfuscation and not very good at it.
Why are you so scared to actually confront the question?
jon357 63 | 14,122
19 Sep 2018  #21
You didn't ask a question with any answer. Remove the word 'why' from the start and 'so much' from the end and it would make more sense. Slightly more.
OP Miloslaw 6 | 2,022
19 Sep 2018  #22
I didn't use the words "so much",you're still avoiding the question.....and I suspect you will continue to obfuscate and not answer it.....not brave enough?
jon357 63 | 14,122
19 Sep 2018  #23
I didn't use the words "so much"

Really:

white people so much

There's no answer to your vexatious and argumentative question. Especially since I don't hate any single group of people and (as an active participant in it) actually rather like what you call "Western democracy".

Remember, the Civil Rights movement in the U.S. was something that went a long way to correct some very cruel injustices. Although it was certainly black-led, there were also contributions from people who weren't black, particularly President Johnson and of course a century before by President Lincoln. Thousands of other less well-known people who although not themselves victims of it, still found it abhorrent.

There's still a way to go in order to correct economic injustice, however this will surely happen sooner or later. Martin Luther King's famous speech still holds true.
OP Miloslaw 6 | 2,022
19 Sep 2018  #24
I started this thread in an attempt to bring Brits and Yanks closer together.....clearly it has failed and I won't try it again....Jon,you come across to me as a Brit,but I may well be wrong.

As you clearly won't answer any of my other questions maybe you could tell me your nationality at least.
jon357 63 | 14,122
19 Sep 2018  #25
clearly it has failed

That might be to do with the tone of certain posts; post £18 is an example. In any case, such discussions almost always tend to gravitate to talking about one country or the other rather than both. If you want to know some interesting things about what Americans and Britons think about each other, there's some very good stuff on Quora; much of it light-hearted and amusing.

clearly won't answer any of my other questions

Not a huge surprise when your 'question' is:

Why do you hate Western democracy,capitalism and white people so much?

OP Miloslaw 6 | 2,022
19 Sep 2018  #26
Why are you so scared to answer such a simple question?
What nationality are you and I'll add,what country do you live in?
You know what nationality I am and where I live.......why are you too scared to answer?
What have you got to hide?
jon357 63 | 14,122
19 Sep 2018  #27
Why are you so scared to answer such a simple question?

This one?

Why do you hate Western democracy,capitalism and white people so much?

It's a vexatious question that has no answer at all, since you tried to introduce a false premise. In the same way the question quoted first in this post is vexatious. It doesn't reflect well on you.

You know what nationality I am and where I live

I don't actually.

About myself, I'm a citizen of both Poland and the UK, live in Warsaw, and at the moment spend a lot of time away from home for work reasons.

About America, I've spent time there for work (mostly the East Coast and a little in the South) and enjoyed it. It seems an easy place to live, though not perhaps so easy if you have to live and work there all the time with few holidays, high crime rates and no NHS.

About the American view of Britain, most are pleasantly surprised when they visit, about how friendly the UK (outside Greater London anyway) is, how the pub culture works, how good the food is and if they need to visit A&E their minds are blown when they leave without a bill.
OP Miloslaw 6 | 2,022
19 Sep 2018  #28
At last!
That was like getting blood out of a stone!
So you are a Brit living in Poland?
Any Polish parents,grandparents,wife?
jon357 63 | 14,122
19 Sep 2018  #29
Have you looked on Quora for some of the US/UK stuff. There's some interesting things written by Americans who've moved there. A lot surprises them.

That was like getting blood out of a stone!

You could always have asked nicely. Family stuff is more private.

BTW, born in God's own county, live (not living, that sounds somehow temporary) in PL for the best part of 30 years. It's home now.
Ironside 48 | 9,705
19 Sep 2018  #30
you could tell me your nationality at least.

Oh for goodness sake he is English, from the north who has got a uni education. Later in live relocated to Poland for various personal reasons. Now possibly in Africa or in some other place. Does it matter? His sense of elitism comes from a very inflated ego. Some people are progressives M. surly you are aware of it? That has nothing to do with his nationality or origin. All lefties/ progressives/commies are of the same ilk..

WWII was last century, so by your 'logic' Poles should forget about it.

Who is talking about forgetting? Now blaming every single German or all of them in one bulk today for the deeds of their grandparents that would be dumb.

Segregation ended relatively recently, if it truly ended at all.@ jon357

IF it ended? Would be able to point out to me an example of the law that precipitate segregation today? Better still a one that continue with a legacy of the legal segregation.

No matter how long ago it was. People are not responsible for the deeds of the previous generation. Assuming guilt due to the color of one's skin is a very racist approach.


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