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Additional capacity for Nordstream II - Germany plans to buy hydrogen from Russia and use NS II for transport


Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,386
30 May 2020 #31
That's interesting background info about that (from March 2020):

...Four German ministries are working on a strategy to replace oil, natural gas and coal with hydrogen. The blueprint is expected to be announced this month, possibly at the annual Berlin Energy Days congress.

Hydrogen, the world's most abundant and lightest element, can supply the temperatures above 1,000°C needed in industries like cement manufacture, steelmaking and oil refining.

Fabian Huneke of Energy Brainpool said: "Hydrogen isn't the perfect solution, but it seems to the best available so far, especially for the industry to decarbonise production. You can't really design an energy system with more than 70 per cent of renewables in the energy mix, without hydrogen."....


energy-reporters.com/storage/germany-to-unveil-plans-for-hydrogen-future/
Vlad1234 16 | 755
30 May 2020 #32
Hydrogen... seems to the best available so far to decarbonise production.

If they are going to extract hydrogen from methane how is it going to solve problem of decarbonization globally? The process of extraction by itself requires a lot of energy as well as hydrogen compression to 700 atm., and what they expect will happen to carbon which is present in methane? Russians almost certainly will burn this carbon and release CO2 in air. If the decarbonization is the whole purpose I think the better options are biofuel and batteries/hybrid cars. It is much cheaper than hydrogen.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,386
30 May 2020 #33
Read that?

Decarbonization of industrial sectors: the next frontier

mckinsey.com/~/media/McKinsey/Business%20Functions/Sustainability/Our%20Insights/How%20industry%20can%20move%20toward%20a%20low%20carbon%20future/Decarbonization-of-industrial-sectors-The-next-frontier.ashx

...A new report from McKinsey, Decarbonization of industrial sectors: The next frontier (PDF-21MB), finds that ammonia, cement, ethylene, and steel companies can reduce their carbon-dioxide (CO2) emissions to almost zero with energy-efficiency improvements, the electric production of heat, the use of hydrogen and biomass as feedstock or fuel, and carbon capture....

mckinsey.com/business-functions/sustainability/our-insights/how-industry-can-move-toward-a-low-carbon-future

These special industries need more than only biofuel and hybrid cars....and it's still a long way to go:

....The decarbonization of these sectors will cost between $11 trillion and $21 trillion through 2050 and will require accelerating the build-out of renewable-energy capacity, to provide four to nine times as much clean power as industry would need in the absence of any effort to reduce emissions....
Vlad1234 16 | 755
2 Jun 2020 #34
Decarbonization of industrial sectors: the next frontier

If the whole purpose of the "decarbonization" is to exclude CO2 release in air at any stage of the process and anywhere in the World, then how extracting hydrogen from methane could solve the problem? Methane consists of hydrogen and carbon. If Russians will burn the Carbon part of it and ship hydrogen to Germany, CO2 is still created and released. But in this case "pollution" transferred to Russian territory. But from global perspective and for global warming it makes no difference. And also separating methane into carbon and hydrogen requires huge amount of energy by itself and very likely Russians will use "polluting" energy to make it.
Crow 146 | 8,826
3 Jun 2020 #35
Now when Serbia and Hungary secured itself with South Stream (ie now known as Turk Stream), Poland doesn't need to worry because always can buy cheaper Russian gas via South Stream, without being blackmailed by Germany or German pawns in what is still Ukraine, without even need to negotiate with Russia.

Russia won't be an obstacle because Serbia has a contract with Russia that guarantees us, we can sell it to the third side on our own without limit. And as we all know, Hungary (Visegrad) will provide transit to Poland from Serbia.
Spike31 2 | 2,103
7 Jun 2020 #36
It looks like combined pressure of US sanctions and new EU regulations regarding gas directive, to which Poland has contributed, will sink the North Stream II project or at least render it much less usefull and relevant.

It is a win-win for Poland and Central Europe because this will weaken Russia and Germany at the same time and also remove of the important platforms for cooperation between those countries. Any form of direct major politico-economic Germo-Russian cooperation is a threat to our region and should be neutralized. In this case a national interest of Poland and the US are very similar.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,386
10 Jun 2020 #37
Apropos hydrogen....Germany just decided to fund and develop it's own hydrogen industry!

About 7 Billion Euros will be used to become the international leader in relevant technologies, an additional 2 Billion Euros will be used for international partnerships. To put all that money to good use the government installed a 25 head strong "national hydrogen council" which will advise the government.

The first step is to build hydrogen facilities for about 5 Gigawatt total output till 2030....till 2040 the output will be doubled to 10 Gigawatt. For that to achieve it needs alot energy, the gov expects to import much of it for the foreseeable future.

Till 2023 the government will shuck out about 320 Billion Euros for research and development. It expects lotsa new jobs in this new to-be-build hydrogen economy.

Hydrogen technology will be used for the climate but also as a good to be exported, for example hydrogen drives.

(Just to put the thread topic into perspective)

The original article in german:

zeit.de/wirtschaft/2020-06/wasserstofftechnologie-bundeskabinett-wasserstoff-strategie-energiewende-klimaschutz-foerderprogramm-oekobilanz

And a summary in english:

cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-national-hydrogen-strategy

In the fight against climate change, hydrogen made with renewable electricity is increasingly seen as a silver bullet for sectors with particularly stubborn emissions, such as heavy industry and aviation. Germany has set out to become a global leader in the associated hydrogen technologies, and the governmnet has penned a National Hydrogen Strategy to fulfil these ambitions. This factsheet summarises the strategy, which was approved by government on Wednesday 10 June. (UPDATE - strategy approved)...
Spike31 2 | 2,103
10 Jun 2020 #38
In other words, the US is now directly threatening Europe's energy supplies.

Not the whole Europe but Russia and Germany, with the former one being famous for using energy suppiles as a political weapon in the past. Countries like Poland, Ukraine and Baltic States are against NS2.

So we can reframe it to: the US is helping Poland, Ukraine and Baltic states to fight it off against more powerful opponents.
Spike31 2 | 2,103
16 Jun 2020 #39
Russian gas giant Gazprom will reimburse Poland's PGNiG to the tune of $1.5 billion by July 1 for overcharging it for its supplies for years

themoscowtimes.com/2020/06/15/russias-gazprom-to-reimburse-poland-15bln-a70579
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
16 Jun 2020 #40
the US is helping Poland, Ukraine and Baltic states to fight it off against more powerful opponents.

More like the US is blackmailing Europe into accepting much more expensive gas at our expense.
johnny reb 28 | 4,577
16 Jun 2020 #41
the tune of $1.5 billion

Chump change as I know individuals that are worth more then that.

More like the US is blackmailing Europe

More like a "Reasonable Choice" for Europe Lazarus....... support your Allie that has protected your Duppy Asses for the last 75 years who stands between you and your enemy or support Russia's military complex by pumping Billions of dollars into it by buying their energy as the water keeps getting warmer and warmer.

Only a spoiled Socialists such as yourself would cry "Blackmail".
Joker 2 | 1,290
16 Jun 2020 #42
Blackmail...LOLOL What a clown!
johnny reb 28 | 4,577
16 Jun 2020 #43
Lazarus (ie: delphiandomine) was just TROLLING by BAITING AGAIN that he is so famous for because of his OCD.
This can be confirmed by his post above because his remark has already been hashed and rehashed in this thread with the same remark that he made AGAIN to Bait with.

Your reply was perfect though Joker as it says it all in three words.
Lazarus 1 | 54
16 Jun 2020 #44
Lazarus

Is there a reason you're speaking about me yet again in a post I haven't posted in? Other than the obvious obsession you have, James, with me.
Spike31 2 | 2,103
22 Jul 2020 #45
A fresh batch of US sanctions against North Stream II

rferl.org/a/us-house-approves-more-sanctions-related-to-nord-stream-2/30738780.html

Germany is a big fish in a small European pond, and can bully other EU countries, but no match for large sharks out there
Crow 146 | 8,826
22 Jul 2020 #46
I see Germany as sex slave to USA and Russia. I am on the verge to feel pity for them. But they deserved.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,386
23 Jul 2020 #47
and can bully other EU countries,

.....yeah....bullying with about 1,8 Billion financial gifts for free just now....*epic eye roll*

I didn't see Poles protesting german "bullying"!

....at least East-Germany will get 500 mio Euros out of it too....so it's not all that bad...
Spike31 2 | 2,103
23 Jul 2020 #48
I didn't see Poles protesting german "bullying"!

I am protesting against common EU debt. This initiative is damaging and it gives another tool of financial control for Berlin and Brussels. It is also a step forward towards more fiscal integration and federalization of the EU.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,386
23 Jul 2020 #49
I am protesting against common EU debt.

Yeah...you and me both pal!

But neither Poland nor Germany nor any other....
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,386
3 Sep 2020 #50
Now that the Charit├Ę in Berlin found out the exact mix Nawalny had been poisoned with the pressure on Merkel to stop Nord Stream 2 is mounting...

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-03/merkel-faces-pressure-to-drop-russian-pipeline-to-punish-putin

But I have my doubts that anything will change Merkel's mind about that....

... The project is a joint Russian-European economic venture and linking it to the Navalny case "isn't appropriate," she said on Friday....

I can't help thinking there is something Putin has about Merkel...some blackmail material....otherwise her dogged clamping on that project is hard to understand.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,182
3 Sep 2020 #51
there is something Putin has about Merkel...some blackmail material...

I've never thought about it in this way, but ... Anyway, Bundeskanzlerin Merkel can at times be quite tough on the Russians, can't she?

her dogged clamping on that project is hard to understand.

The more so that Germany presses hard on renewable energy sources.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,386
3 Sep 2020 #52
The more so

Yeah....that all doesn't fit somehow....*scratches head*
AntV 2 | 167
3 Sep 2020 #53
otherwise her dogged clamping on that project is hard to understand.

Probably simply she knows Germany needs the gas to fuel its economy and a bunch of money has already been sunk into the project. She's being practical.

You comfortable with Germany's close ties with Russia, BB?

The more so that Germany presses hard on renewable energy sources.

The promise of a possibility that extends well into the future, does not help with immediate needs for fuel in the the present. Merkel understands industries, office buildings, and homes aren't powered by a dream, but by fossil fuels. Nord Stream therefore gets the money it needs.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,386
4 Sep 2020 #54
She's being practical.

She is isolating Germany in Europe, politically it's a total loss already.....

You comfortable with Germany's close ties with Russia, BB?

Russia isn't the problem, never was...Putin is!
Crow 146 | 8,826
4 Sep 2020 #55
Russia isn't the problem, never was...Putin is!

Germany destroyed Yugoslavia and attacked Serbia. Made even great problem to the USA because crazy Clinton followed Germany in that adventure. Now USA wants to get rid of the problem and Russia mathematics became complicated. Its not Germany-Poland-Russia anymore. Its Germany-Poland-Serbia-Russia.
Crow 146 | 8,826
4 Sep 2020 #56
Yeltzin and those magnates behind him fell because didn`t support Serbs. Its because Russia, for its own interests, needs Serbs and Serbian state in South-Eastern-Central Europe to exist at least. Russians learned, as Serbs stood, stood Slavic South. Stood, semblance of entirety of Slavic civilization. In return, they only need our neutral stance on Russia, what is no problem considering Serbs understand ways of interests in Europe and world and understand role of Russia as source of balance of power.

But historically, Russia played on Bulgaria. Mistaken gravely. Was reluctant to 100% support Serbs after their liberation from Turks because Serbs insisted on their connection to Poles. Plus, Serbian Imperial dynasty (Nemanjic) started as Catholic and just later (in 13th century) opted for Orthodoxy after pressed by Pope.

But, Russia learned the hard way when Bulgarians, that were 100% Orthodox turned to Germany for royal dynasty, after they liberated shirtsleeves from Turks and stabbed Russia in the back. All here in the region (Greeks, Romanians, Albanians, Hungarians) had foreign, German dynasties as ruling houses and Kings. Only Serbs didn`t. Only Serbs had their own domicile dynasties and balanced their politics to have at least hint of independence. And still Serbs insisted to beil out Poland and all other Slavs within Austro-Hungaria and even under Russia. Insisted to have their own schemes with all those Slavs, with Lusatians, Poles. It went that far that Serbian King even had a nerve to make a deal with Polish emigres and Polish Prince Czartorisky, that confronted Russian domination over other Slavs. On the other side, Prussian nobility that was still aware of its Serbian (Lusatian, Kashub) origin used to fled to Serbian Kingdom and to fight for Serbia, lead armies here even. Germany was enraged and Russia was totally upset by development. Serbs created great shift of balance and turmoil in European status-quo.

We were facing our own extinction because we insisted on our principles but we didn`t give up. But, then Russia learned, admitted to itself and understood that its not Russia who lead Slavic world and move things. That motor are Serbs. Capable to establish balance.

That is why Russia entered in WWI on the side of Serbs. It was last card played by Russian Emperor Nikolai Romanov. He sacrificed his own dynasty to save that beacon of light that are Serbs. That motor.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,386
4 Sep 2020 #57
All here in the region (Greeks, Romanians, Albanians, Hungarians) had foreign, German dynasties as ruling houses and Kings. Only Serbs didn`t.

Na ja, the serbian dynasty is only a mere 2 centuries old....

....The Karadjordjevic dynasty is over two centuries old. In 1804, a wealthy Serbian clan chief and leader George Petrovic - known to his followers as "Karadjordje" "Black George", after his dark looks) - led the Serbs in an uprising against the Ottoman Empire which controlled the Balkans at that time....

royalfamily.org/dinasty/history-of-the-dynasty/

Most monarchies of Europe on the other hand are much older, back from the middle ages. And they descend nearly all only from a few Germans.

.... Most of Europe's monarchies are descended from just a couple of families, notably the German noble families of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Gl├╝cksburg and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.....
Crow 146 | 8,826
4 Sep 2020 #58
Na ja, the serbian dynasty is only a mere 2 centuries old....

So what? Man of our medieval dynasties were slain.

Most monarchies of Europe on the other hand are much older, back from the middle ages.

Of course. Serbs died so they can live.
AntV 2 | 167
4 Sep 2020 #59
Russia isn't the problem, never was...Putin is!

Russia and Putin are synonymous, though.

She is isolating Germany in Europe, politically it's a total loss already.....

If it is a total loss, how does that bode for the future of the EU?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,386
4 Sep 2020 #60
Russia and Putin are synonymous, though.

I don't hope so!

If it is a total loss, how does that bode for the future of the EU?

Right now Merkel is the only government leader insisting still to complete the project...so, it's not exactly "the" EU speaking here...


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