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Tomasevski makes an idiot out of himself yet again


delphiandomine 85 | 17,657    
14 Aug 2013  #1
If anyone ever needed any proof that the Poles in Lithuania are being misled and that Tomasevski will say anything to get attention, here it is -

The leader of the Electoral Action of Poles in Lithuania, MEP Valdemar Tomasevski, said that the banner held up by Polish football fans in order to insult Lithuanians at a Poznan stadium was a provocation organised by Lithuania's special services.

"The banners are the work of special services. This is not the first time when such banners are put up," he told LNK TV on Monday 12 August, 2013.

Asked to specify the special services he had in mind, the politician said that "they can be mixed, but this is mainly the work of our special services - you are well familiar with their work methods."

Tomasevski also spoke about "double and triple agents doing their work."

lithuaniatribune/47391/mep-offensive-banner-in-poznan-stadium-plotted-by-lithuanias-special-services-201347391

This is exactly why Poland shouldn't listen to a word that he says.
xzqbq7 2 | 104    
14 Aug 2013  #2
This is exactly why Poland shouldn't listen to a word that he says.

Any explanation or proof that what Mr. Tomaszewski is saying is not possible?

Or it is so self-evident that simply we must just trust you?
Harry    
14 Aug 2013  #3
Any explanation or proof that what Mr. Tomaszewski is saying is not possible?

I'd be quite happy to chip in for your travel expenses (or those of Tomasevski, and don't we now have a rule against deliberately mis-spelling people's names?) so you can the the Lech Poznan that they are Lithuanian secret agents and thus traitors to Poland. You might want to make sure that your medical insurance included attempted suicide.
Nile 1 | 155    
14 Aug 2013  #4
This is exactly why Poland shouldn't listen to a word that he says.

Why? I would say that he has the right to express his opinion on any subject he likes.
f stop 25 | 2,514    
14 Aug 2013  #5
I could not figure out what the banner says.. Utewski??
Litewski! Needs a bigger space between L and i.

And people, it was a soccer match; last place anyone should expect political correctness. As usual, media makes the world go 'round..
OP delphiandomine 85 | 17,657    
14 Aug 2013  #6
Any explanation or proof that what Mr. Tomaszewski is saying is not possible?

Like Harry says, I'd be quite willing to chip in to pay for your ticket to tell the Lech Poznan fans that. I wouldn't insult them by suggesting that they were infiltrated by Lithuanians - Lech Poznan fans are fiercely patriotic and regard themselves as being the genuine soul of Poland - the mere thought of them being "Lithuanian secret services" is incredibly insulting. And I say that as someone who regards Lech as his Polish team.

Or it is so self-evident that simply we must just trust you?

You should trust Wiara Lecha and the other fan clubs that there's no way that they would allow themselves to be infiltrated by Lithuanians.

Why? I would say that he has the right to express his opinion on any subject he likes.

He does, but equally Poland should be aware that he's a proven liar on numerous occasions. Lithuanians have made a mockery out of him in the past, including when he bussed in Polish-Lithuanian schoolchildren to Vilnius to "protest", only for the kids to blow the whole thing by being honest.

And people, it was a soccer match; last place anyone should expect political correctness. As usual, media makes the world go 'round..

But Tomasevski needs attention!
pawian 151 | 7,977    
15 Aug 2013  #7
The leader of the Electoral Action of Poles in Lithuania, MEP Valdemar Tomasevski,

When I read the title, I thought you are talking about a famous Polish goalkeeper who stopped England long ago.
Nile 1 | 155    
16 Aug 2013  #8
He does, but equally Poland should be aware that he's a proven liar on numerous occasions.

He is The leader of the Electoral Action of Poles in Lithuania, MEP. I would have listened carefully to what he says.
OP delphiandomine 85 | 17,657    
16 Aug 2013  #9
You would listen carefully to a man who was exposed on numerous occasions for outright lying, and who regularly whips up the fear of "Polonophobia" among the Polish Lithuanians for political purposes - and - a man who entered a coalition with the Russian minority in Lithuania?

It is well documented that he's a smart guy who took advantage of the fear/ignorance of the Polish minority in Lithuania.
Nile 1 | 155    
16 Aug 2013  #10
You would listen carefully to a man who was exposed on numerous occasions for outright lying, and who regularly whips up the fear of "Polonophobia" among the Polish Lithuanians for political purposes - and - a man who entered a coalition with the Russian minority in Lithuania?

Yes, because all you say it is just an opinion of anonymous poster. He is a political leader and MEP.
Harry    
16 Aug 2013  #11
He is a political leader and MEP.

He is a man who has been repeatedly proven to be a liar.

Yes, because all you say it is just an opinion of anonymous poster.

I'm more than happy to chip in for your travel expenses to Poznan so you can tell Wiara Lecha that they are either traitors or simply not Polish. Please note that I won't cover any of your medical or funeral expenses.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467    
16 Aug 2013  #12
I could not figure out what the banner says..

On your knees, Lithuanian peasant (boor, bumpkin, clod) before your Polish lord!
OP delphiandomine 85 | 17,657    
16 Aug 2013  #13
Yes, because all you say it is just an opinion of anonymous poster. He is a political leader and MEP.

And he is accusing Wiara Lecha and others (who make a *very* strong claim to being the real heart of Poland) of being Lithuanian agents. I can't imagine anything more offensive, especially given the banner in question.

As for political leader - he is a man who has entered a coalition that involved Russians. What kind of Pole would do that?
chris17    
16 Aug 2013  #14
Tomashevski may be correct. The banner in Poznań was exactly the same meaning as old soviet propaganda describing Polish masters over the peasants. Pure ********! I think those were secret services but Russians.
Harry    
16 Aug 2013  #15
I think those were secret services but Russians.

I'm more than happy to pay for your travel expenses to Poznan so you can explain to Wiara Lecha etc that they are either traitors or Russians.

As for political leader - he is a man who has entered a coalition that involved Russians. What kind of Pole would do that?

Is the answer to that 'traitor'?
OP delphiandomine 85 | 17,657    
16 Aug 2013  #16
Tomashevski may be correct. The banner in Poznań was exactly the same meaning as old soviet propaganda describing Polish masters over the peasants. Pure ********! I think those were secret services but Russians.

The offer extends to you - I'd love to see you tell Wiara Lecha and friends that you think they are Russian secret services.

As for the banner being the same - you do realise that Poles do have a superiority complex over Lithuanians? Telling Lithuanians (especially from Vilnius) to bow down to their masters sounds entirely normal for Poles.
chris17    
16 Aug 2013  #17
Their just youngsters loving their team Lech, Poznań and Fatherland. However, what I mean is that usuful idiots happen everywhere. In my opinion both coutries Poland and Lithuania is still under big influeance of German, Russians, American and Isreal secret services. The friendship between these two nations is unreal due to World's Policy.
Harry    
16 Aug 2013  #18
As for the banner being the same - you do realise that Poles do have a superiority complex over Lithuanians? Telling Lithuanians (especially from Vilnius) to bow down to their masters sounds entirely normal for Poles.

Entirely normal for some Poles.

In my opinion both coutries Poland and Lithuania is still under big influeance of German, Russians, American and Isreal secret services.

Have you ever been to Europe?
Lenka 2 | 1,063    
16 Aug 2013  #19
As for the banner being the same - you do realise that Poles do have a superiority complex over Lithuanians? Telling Lithuanians (especially from Vilnius) to bow down to their masters sounds entirely normal for Poles.

Your desire to win the argument sometimes takes the better of you. While some Poles may think that way it's in no way true for majority.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467    
16 Aug 2013  #20
that they are either traitors or Russians.

This is just make-believe naivete, right? Secret services do not do anyhting so obvious and gauche as taking over entire teams or their fan clubs. They select one member who seems ot be a soft touch, is greedy or perpetually short of cash, has gambling debts is desepate or whatever. Then someone with an aura of credibiltiy approaches him (no-one with an obvious foreign accent) in a pub, café or park, gets to talking and gently explains the problem at hand. If he could help out a bit it'd be worth his while. That's how secret services everywhere operate. Of course, as circumstances require, there are also more forceful means -- assassinations, intimidation, blackmail, someone getting beaten up by unknown attackers, etc. The secret services post no links for any of this and if caught go into total denial. That's why they're called secret and engage mainly in covert and clandestine operations.
OP delphiandomine 85 | 17,657    
16 Aug 2013  #21
Your desire to win the argument sometimes takes the better of you. While some Poles may think that way it's in no way true for majority.

Yes, you're right. Do you know of any polls on the matter? I've always had the impression from Polish people that they looked at Lithuania as a bit of a mischievous little brother more than anything.

(for what it's worth, I was distinctly unimpressed by the Polish government pandering to Tomasevski's lies)
Harry    
16 Aug 2013  #22
They select one member who seems ot be a soft touch

Must have been a single member with very long arms if he was able to hold up that banner.

That's how secret services everywhere operate.

Strange that you happen to know about how they operate.
Anyway, can you tell us which secret services run false flag operations and let the people running them announce in advance what is going to happen?
Nile 1 | 155    
17 Aug 2013  #23
And he is accusing Wiara Lecha and others (who make a *very* strong claim to being the real heart of Poland) of being Lithuanian agents. I can't imagine anything more offensive, especially given the banner in question.

As for political leader - he is a man who has entered a coalition that involved Russians. What kind of Pole would do that?

The bottom line is that you are an anonymous voice on the Internet and he is a political leader and MEP. I understand that you don't like him but other than that you haven't presented any convincing arguments in support of your claims.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467    
17 Aug 2013  #24
Must have been a single member with very long arms

More make-believe naivete? A basic knowledge of psychology is enough to know about mob and audience reaction. Young footies fans are full of adrenalin and can readily be talked into doing outrageous things. One time it may be smashing up cars near the stadium, other times battling riot police or bonking the fans of a rival team. Holding up a banner is mild by comparison. It takes only one person to get the ball rolling, and others soon chime in: 'That's a cool idea!'

I know nothing of Tomaszewski's polticis (correct spelling BTW -- on his blog he spells it Waldemar Tomaszewski first and then the Lithuanian distortion in second place), but he is right in saying there are double and even triple agents. Everyone knows that. That's one of the ways those services operate.
OP delphiandomine 85 | 17,657    
17 Aug 2013  #25
I understand that you don't like him but other than that you haven't presented any convincing arguments in support of your claims.

You can start with asking yourself why the children bussed into Vilnius to "protest" didn't actually have a clue why they were there.

Polonius, you're more than welcome to tell the Lech football fans that they are naive and easily suckered into doing the work of the Lithuanian secret services.

Is it really so difficult to believe that they did this by themselves? As I keep saying until I'm sick in the face - Lech Poznan supporters believe that they are the real heart of Poland. With it, telling Lithuanians to bow down to their masters seems absolutely normal and in character for them. They wanted to intimidate the Lithuanians - and they needed absolutely no help from anyone in Lithuania to do so.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467    
17 Aug 2013  #26
Poznan supporters believe that they are the real heart of Poland. With it, telling Lithuanians to bow down to their masters seems absolutely normal and in character for them

Your tendency towards simplistic solutions is incredible. Is everything in life a simple question of either or? One does not rule out the other. If they were xenophobic (antii-Lithuanian for instance) in the first place, then it woild have been all the easier to instigate such as scene. So far no-one actually knows who was behind it -- spontraneous or inspired from without. BTW did you ever consider who actually ordered, created and paid for so huge a banner?
OP delphiandomine 85 | 17,657    
17 Aug 2013  #27
Your tendency towards simplistic solutions is incredible.

Why try and make life complicated when one already knows the history of Lech Poznan supporters group and one is familiar with their modern day slogans and operations?

I wouldn't insult them by trying to pretend that they were attempting to do anything other than intimidate and offend the Lithuanians.

If they were xenophobic (antii-Lithuanian for instance) in the first place, then it woild have been all the easier to instigate such as scene.

I assure you that these things are planned by the very top guys within Wiara Lecha and others. They wouldn't let some random guys instigate such a scene - nothing happens in that stand without it being planned and orchestrated. One thing I highly respect about them is their sense of organisation - which you need in order to produce a massive banner like that.

So far no-one actually knows who was behind it -- spontraneous or inspired from without.

We know who was behind it. The banner was kept in the part of the stadium allocated for the fans use only. Why try and look for a conspiracy where there is none?

BTW did you ever consider who actually ordered, created and paid for so huge a banner?

Huge banners are nothing at all abnormal for ultras in football. In Wiara Lecha's case, they raise money in a variety of ways - they hold collections, they sell merchandise, they make some money from organising transport - etc etc. Banners aren't expensive as well - you can get a 5m x 1m banner for about 90zl. Such a huge banner would attract a big discount - and if the printing company supports Lech Poznan (as many people do) - then they would get it for cost price.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467    
18 Aug 2013  #28
Huge banners are nothing at all abnormal for ultras

What you say cannot be ruled out. Neither can other possibilities. The fact is that services observe, keep their hand on the pulse of things, make contacts and take whatever steps are necessary to acomplish the task at hand. And all this is something neither you nor I can prove or disprove. Unless you are claiming there is no such thing as secret services -- that they stopped deisting when PRL was overthrown.

BTW, you failed to indicate whether you believe Poles in Lithuania are fairly treated or, as Lithuanian Poles themselves complain, are blatantly discriminated against.


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