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Smoking ban in Polish bars and restaurants (AT LAST!)


trener zolwia 1 | 940
13 Oct 2010 #91
Because it's about a nanny state taking away your liberties until people will be mollycoddled so much they will suffocate

Right. Being nannied to death can hardly be considered a "success" or a "victory", as some here have called the ban. Unless one is a nannying Lib that refuses to MTOB...
Harry
13 Oct 2010 #92
I'm not up to date on Polish finances (but would expect them to be similar) but in the UK smokers pay more than enough tax to cover the cost of their illnesses and die early enough that the saving from not having to pay them extra pensions is a significant benefit to the state purse.
convex 20 | 3,978
13 Oct 2010 #93
That's actually a beautiful point which completely deep sixes that argument.
Harry
13 Oct 2010 #94
Unfortunately one side of this debate are not in the slightest interested in any points: they will force their way onto everybody. And then they will whine when their favour bar closes (like 50+ a week in the UK have done since the smoking ban there was introduced).
sledz 23 | 2,250
13 Oct 2010 #95
Arse to it!

and to the millions and millions of cigarette butts that now get littered all over the streets and to the people that hang outside of the bars all night coz they cant smoke inside,,,stupid law!

The restaurant part I can agree with, who really wants smoke being blown in your face while youre eating?

I'm in the US. I say smoking bans have not "worked" here

All it has achieved really, is just pi$$ing off the neighbors that have to see and hear drunks congregating around so called establishments.

People that dont smoke, have never been big bar patrons from what Ive seen.
Empty bar, packed outside......lol

I wonder how it will work in Poland, being most Europeans smoke,,,,dont you????
Avalon 4 | 1,068
13 Oct 2010 #96
I have to agree with you Harry. Some two years ago I read a government report that stated that it was costing the NHS, some £700 million to treat patients with smoking related illness's.What they failed to mention was the £8 billion pounds collected from tobacco duties. This is why no UK government will ban smoking completely, it would add 5p in the pound to income tax. Its the same with the lst govenment, brought in 24 hour drinking and then complained that there were increased costs to the NHS for Alchohol related injuries as the A & E centres were full over the weekends with "binge" drinkers.

The solution seems to be that everything is banned, you live to be 100 and then you starve because there are too many people alive and not enough people working to fund the pension/health schemes. Take away drinking and smoking and the only thing left to do will be to shag like bunnies and overpopulate the world.

Am I really expected to talk to my Mrs when I am sober? what about my human rights?
convex 20 | 3,978
13 Oct 2010 #97
What they failed to mention was the £8 billion pounds collected from tobacco duties.

Maybe there's something to this planned economy thing...
Dougpol3 1 | 40
13 Oct 2010 #98
Cigarette smoking impinges on the lives of those I care for - through passive smoking. And you ont need a Science degree to know that "seperate" smoking and non smoking areas are actully even more dangerous.

Outlaw the danger as in the UK - but also make smokers pay for their treatment themselves, I would expect if I need a new liver because of boozing.

Simples. Smoker need a big boot up the arse, and I would be happy to apply that boot - and told to shove off to their own property if thy want to pollute the air that we all share.
Harry
13 Oct 2010 #99
told to shove off to their own property if thy want to pollute the air that we all share.

A smoker who owns a bar in the UK can no longer smoke on his own property, not even when the bar is closed.
convex 20 | 3,978
13 Oct 2010 #100
Simples. Smoker need a big boot up the arse

It's your right to do so. Kick people out of your non smoking private establishment, you make the rules in your joint. You pay the rent, pay the taxes, do the marketing, it's your right.
Dougpol3 1 | 40
13 Oct 2010 #101
'm not up to date on Polish finances (but would expect them to be similar) but in the UK smokers pay more than enough tax to cover the cost of their illnesses

No Harry that is palpably not true. Give us statistics. Plenty of social think tanks have sat on this question and found that smokers who contract cancers are bleeding the NHS dry.

In a country like Britain that spends 11 per cent or more of it' GDP on the NHS that is one thing - but Poland, for some astonishing reason, spends FOUR per cent of GDP on it's NHS - and I dont want my tax wasted on smokers who bring their misfortune on themselves to some degree.

Of course in Poland the government are also guilty and provide very little help for people to quit. Still, it's down to personal choice and if anyone smokes ovr my dinner and refuses a polite request to knock it on the head they will risk my 53 year old fury :)) At the very least I will refuse to pay the bill because the estblishment is relinquishing it's health responsibility.

Bollox to this Polish Liberum veto and "it' our right."

A right to live like feral animals? Dont think so.
pawian 170 | 11,330
13 Oct 2010 #102
"Polish pub and restaurant owners have a month left to prepare separate space for smokers. Where this proves impossible, smokers will have to light it up outside."

I agree - at last. One of the reasons I stopped frequenting such premises was the nasty odour of smoke.
Dougpol3 1 | 40
13 Oct 2010 #103
t's your right to do so. Kick people out of your non smoking private establishment, you make the rules in your joint. You pay the rent, pay the taxes, do the marketing, it's your right.

Convex - if people are smoking at the table next to me and my crowd, and we were there first, and they are smoking it thick, we politely ask them to move.

If they dont, we might just start a ruck on occasion

Disgusting selfish habit.
convex 20 | 3,978
13 Oct 2010 #104
the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-research/facts-figures/tax-revenue-from-tobacco

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7654153.stm

7b in the black

Still, it's down to personal choice and if anyone smokes ovr my dinner and refuses a polite request to knock it on the head they will risk my 53 year old fury :)) At the very least I will refuse to pay the bill because the estblishment is relinquishing it's health responsibility.

Support non smoking restaurants. If it's such a plague, why would you go somewhere that it's allowed?

How about fat people? Thoughts on that terrible epidemic?

Disgusting selfish habit.

Go to a non smoking joint. Do you think you own the place?
Dougpol3 1 | 40
13 Oct 2010 #105
I agree - at last. One of the reasons I stopped frequenting such premises was the nasty odour of smoke.

You are missing the point Pawian - the pub will still smell of smoke - OK, so it's a step in the right direction to have seperate smoking rooms, if that is hat they are saying - but why not ban smoking entirely?
pawian 170 | 11,330
13 Oct 2010 #106
but why not ban smoking entirely?

Quite impossible. Poland is the country of freedom-loving people. We do what we want, generally.
Dougpol3 1 | 40
13 Oct 2010 #107
How about fat people? Thoughts on that terrible epidemic?

The same. If they cant stop stuffing themselves, they pay for treatment.

I drink. I try to stop for 4 to 5 months in the year both for professional and health reasons. It's called willpower.

If I get out of order on the drink I always endeavour to take myself off somewhere private. Smokers dont do this, and Poland has this nasty stinking acceptance of carcinogens.

I dont.
convex 20 | 3,978
13 Oct 2010 #108
Ban fatty foods seems to be the answer?

But again, I don't come to your private premises and tell you what to do, why should you be able to do the same to me?

You mentioned something about selfishness?
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387
13 Oct 2010 #109
but why not ban smoking entirely?

because the folks here are aware that smoking is popular and smokers also create revenue.

too many stories about closed pubs in the uk might have caused a bit of fear here.

because smokers usually give way to non smokers. meaning pub owners realize that sooner or later smokers will be under pressure (in pubs) to cut down or quit anyway.

smoker's corner will probably get smaller and smaller over time until it disappears completely.
Dougpol3 1 | 40
13 Oct 2010 #110
You mentioned something about selfishness?

What privat premises do you run? smoking is bnned in my schools through law, but my porter still does, and I tolerat it becasue it' t night and he's a cracking bloke and I wouldn't want to lose him.

But, public bar or restaurant, if somebody i blowing smoke in my direction, be it flash git or bimbo, I will ask them to refrain, and be prepared in the case of it being abloke to insist.

Your premises coul be private, but if they are open to the public then you have a duty to that client to take reasonble steps.

IMO

apologies for typing in the dark.....
convex 20 | 3,978
13 Oct 2010 #111
What privat premises do you run? smoking is bnned in my schools through law, but my porter still does, and I tolerat it becasue it' t night and he's a cracking bloke and I wouldn't want to lose him.

A bar, it's private property.

Your premises coul be private, but if they are open to the public then you have a duty to that client to take reasonble steps.

Your reasonable would be to ban the sale of alcohol and foods containing transfats.

Why don't you exercise your freedom of choice and go to a non smoking bar?
Harry
13 Oct 2010 #112
No Harry that is palpably not true. Give us statistics. Plenty of social think tanks have sat on this question and found that smokers who contract cancers are bleeding the NHS dry.

According to a news item on the BBC, treating smokers costs the NHS £2.7 billion a year. However, smokers pay £9 billion a year in taxes.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7654153.stm

And that is before we look at the saving to the public purse made by smokers dying earlier 10 years and so each receiving tens of thousands less in state pension.

I've given the statistics, perhaps you could link to a few of the studies you claim show that "smokers who contract cancers are bleeding the NHS dry"? I very much doubt you can: your argument is based solely on what you want, not on any facts or logic.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
13 Oct 2010 #113
Something to look forward to when it's minus 20 out.

You reckon it will make a big difference? Im just back from the Czech Rep and they had tiny areas for non smokers...no real difference IMO. Only a total ban will have an impact.

I don't agree.

Then you should go to any A&E across the UK on a Saturday night, you might change your rather small mind.

smokers who contract cancers are bleeding the NHS dry"

They're not its the fat kvnts with health problems that are...We should tax fatty foods the same as fags...
Dougpol3 1 | 40
13 Oct 2010 #114
Why don't you exercise your freedom of choice and go to a non smoking bar?

What about your staff and others who have no choice in the matter? Anyway, are you going to have a separate room for smokers, or just a separate space? The second option i even more dangerous, as said.

Of course I choose my bar sensibly, but I cant do that for my 18 year old non- smoker daughter. In the fun places, there is lot of smoke, and I worry about her health.

As you do about yours'. Are you suggesting there is no danger - and that 18 year olds either realise or care?
convex 20 | 3,978
13 Oct 2010 #115
What about your staff and others who have no choice in the matter.

My staff can work wherever they choose.

I have a separate room, it's a business decision.

In the fun places, there is lot of smoke, and I worry about her health.

Tell her to support the places that are non smoking. Educate her on the effects of smoking. Maybe teach her a thing or two about property rights and how capitalism works.
Dougpol3 1 | 40
14 Oct 2010 #116
You're talking shite Harry and you know it :))

So now people dying earlier is a good thing? so you wish that on your loved ones LOL !

A news item on the BBC wont wash - linkl to NHS figures please if you are going to make spurious claims about the so called "advantages to the taxpayer" of people smoking themsleves and others into an early grave. :(
Harry
14 Oct 2010 #117
What about your staff and others who have no choice in the matter?

If they don't want to work in a place where people smoke, they shouldn't have applied for a job there. It's like a taxi driver insisting that he has the right to not be exposed to the risk of dying in a road traffic accident.

Anyway, are you going to have a separate room for smokers, or just a separate space?

I'd have whatever the owner of the establishment decided he wanted.

In the fun places, there is lot of smoke, and I worry about her health.

Well, we'd better ban smoking: banning drugs has really stopped kids from taking them.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
14 Oct 2010 #118
You're talking shite Harry and you know it :))

Actually he's not.

So now people dying earlier is a good thing?

From a financial point of view, the government are rubbing their grubby little paws together, pay all that tax and then joss it before getting your pension? win win win for them!

people smoking themsleves and others into an early grave. :(

Its a personal choice...One which smokers pay over the odds for.

Are you fat Dougy?
Dougpol3 1 | 40
14 Oct 2010 #119
My staff can work wherever they choose.

Dear oh dear! Bad attitude man! (Meant in jest - it's your business and I'm sure your place is great - sincerely)
Harry
14 Oct 2010 #120
You're talking shite Harry and you know it :))

No, I'm providing facts to back my statements. You're the one talking shite with your crap about "smokers who contract cancers are bleeding the NHS dry".

A news item on the BBC wont wash - linkl to NHS figures please if you are going to make spurious claims about the so called "advantages to the taxpayer" of people smoking themsleves and others into an early grave. :(

According to anti-smoking group ASH "Smoking costs the National Health Service (NHS) approximately £2.7 billion a year for treating diseases caused by smoking." And according to that same organisation "The Treasury earned £8,219 million in revenue from tobacco duties for the financial year 2008-2009 (excluding VAT)."

So now people dying earlier is a good thing? so you wish that on your loved ones LOL !

All of my relatives who smoked have died.


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