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Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates


Spike31 2 | 2,110
15 Jun 2020 #1,231
Provide sources

Konfederacja claim that they're attracting bigger numbers to their rallies than Duda is

I'm not surprised since K.Bosak is a very popular politician, especially among young voters. And he is a very good speaker. He will get a lot of exposure which will pay dividends for him and for Konfederacja later on.

Now, the most interesting aspect for both sides is who is he going to support in the second round. Who is he going to encourage his voters to vote for? Is it going to be:

a) a candidate who is defending traditional Christian family values

or

b) a candidate who is pushing an LGBT agenda?

What do you think @delphiandomine :-)
mafketis 24 | 9,387
15 Jun 2020 #1,232
defending traditional Christian family values

By appearing at a place where LGBT people were put in ovens? That might be your agenda, but do Poles really want to go there?

It's more like a candidate that's pushing a status quo that people don't like and that is in thrall to a bunch of corrupt economic blunderers

A candidate who is not in thrall to a bunch of corrupt economic blunderers....

Who would you choose on purely economic grounds?
Spike31 2 | 2,110
15 Jun 2020 #1,233
Who would you choose on purely economic grounds?

On purely economic grounds I would, and I will, choose K. Bosak the rest are more or less socialists.

On ideological grounds I would choose K. Bosak

(...)

Out of the two main (by predicted share of votes) candidates: Duda and Trzaskowski on a ideological grounds I would choose Duda over Trzaskowski.

On economic grounds they're both similar to me. Trzaskowski is Tusk #2. PO (Trzaskowski was a member, MEP and minister in PO) had almost 8 years to make economic changes and all they did was building blown up bureaucratic apparatus and raising the taxes.

Another so-called Catholic who didn't receive proper religious instruction

You see Atch, as blasphemous as it may sound to you, most Catholics take into account and quote the words of Christ from New Testament over even the finest religious scholars.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,282
15 Jun 2020 #1,234
Latest from Warsaw: PiS candidate Andrzej Duda is going to put a new electoral proposal on the table soon. Observers say the proposal is expected to be a major breakthrough in the run for presidency and may even bring a landslide victory for Duda in the first round of the election.. If Duda wins, it is going to be :

500 zloty for every Pole, at home or abroad, infected with corona virus
------------------------------------------
(Lucky you, Spike and Ironside - you will be included, if you happen to catch the virus)
Spike31 2 | 2,110
15 Jun 2020 #1,235
Well thank you @Ziemowit but I'll pass. I've never claimed any government benefit, handout or aid in my life and that's not going to change :-)

So I will leave it for those who cannot manage otherwise.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,282
15 Jun 2020 #1,236
I'll pass. I've never claimed any government benefit

OK, so in that case we may only count on Ironside ...
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
15 Jun 2020 #1,237
@Ziemowit
WOW such stupidity. More bribery for votes. So everyone pays again for this bumbling idiot and his crew to continue the destruction of the economy in Poland. Any idiot buying into this actually deserves the ruin that Duda will bring on Poland and the joke that PiS will make of the country to the rest of the world. Simply remarkable how this can happen in a modern informed world. Simply remarkable that people would sell out their countrymen for 500 pln. That is honestly sick.
amiga500 2 | 228
15 Jun 2020 #1,238
It is good idea if people get it straight away, money for expenses due to not working because of having virus
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
15 Jun 2020 #1,239
I think PO wasted a lot of opportunities in Poland for sure during their time in charge. But overall it was a stable time of good growth and rising incomes.

I think PO were corrupt but I didn't feel democracy was under threat and I didn't feel I was propping up a growing dependent class with my taxes. That is why I strongly think Duda needs to be removed.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
15 Jun 2020 #1,240
PO were corrupt but I didn't feel democracy was under threat

I didn't feel I was propping up a growing dependent class with my taxes

That pretty much sums it up - PO have massive faults but you never got the idea that they'll leave the country in ruins... PiS, yeah the longer they're in office the worse the coming crash will be...
Lenka 3 | 2,577
15 Jun 2020 #1,241
Well I know PiS pis**d me enough to make me vote (I wasn't planning on it before). Not that it matters but they just got 1 against them.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 Jun 2020 #1,242
What do you think @delphiandomine :-)

Konfederacja won't support anyone as a combined formation. Some of them are behind Duda, others are behind Trzaskowski, and others hate both candidates equally.

More revelations today about Szumowski, as it's now becoming clear that he's very, very deep in it. 200m PLN was given to a private company who then didn't deliver any medical equipment.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
15 Jun 2020 #1,243
Konfederacja won't support anyone as a combined formation.

I've asked clearly who is K.Bosak as a presidential candidate going to support in the 2nd round. Don't play(?) dumb
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 Jun 2020 #1,244
who is K.Bosak as a presidential candidate going to support

I'll be surprised if he endorses anyone.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
15 Jun 2020 #1,245
Now, that's a better answer. That's always an option and he can do that. That said, when he decide to support one of the candidates it is not going to be Trzaskowski...
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 Jun 2020 #1,246
No, of course he's not going to endorse Trzaskowski. Bosak is from RN, so it would be political suicide for him to do that.

But from a purely electoral point of view, I don't believe that he'll endorse anyone. Konfederacja's support is divided, so by endorsing a candidate, he would risk alienating part of his support - which would be crazy after all the hard work that he's put in. IMO, I think he'll simply sit on the fence and say that both options are bad.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
15 Jun 2020 #1,247
National Movement is now a dominant faction in Konfederacja. K.Bosak has not only full support of G.Braun but also from Korwin member A.Dziambor.

K.Bosak supporters and G.Braun supporters will vote for Duda as a "lesser evil". I know the mentality of those people, and I spoke with few leaders of local structures in the past.

Now, despite publicity stunts done by some of Korwin members [Wilk], I predict that most Korwin supporters will also back up Duda. Yes, they are pro-capitalists but they also realize than Trzaskowski won't provide it. And first and foremost they despise cultural marxism and militant LGBT movements. Just like me, they will vote for a "lesser evil"
mafketis 24 | 9,387
15 Jun 2020 #1,248
when he decide to support one of the candidates it is not going to be Trzaskowski...

You really like Duda and want more welfare handouts and more favors parceled out to party cronies?

Even if you don't like RT he makes much more sense as being able to put some roadblocks in PiS's crazier ideas.... Duda will simply do as he's told.

I predict that most Korwin supporters will also back up Duda

Clearly not capitalists at all.... but supporters of cronyism and corruption.. which is what they'll get if Duda is re-elected.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 Jun 2020 #1,249
National Movement is now a dominant faction in Konfederacja.

How does this explain the polling that consistently shows Duda losing to Trzaskowski in the 2nd round among Bosak's electorate, with a plurality choosing to stay at home?

I predict that most Korwin supporters will also back up Duda.

As a whole, Konfederacja didn't back up PiS in the Senate, so why would they suddenly change now?
amiga500 2 | 228
15 Jun 2020 #1,250
How does this explain the polling

The polling methods are not not sophisticated enough to reach a wide spectrum of Konfederacja supporters, esp amongst the youth.

Says it all really.Tusk is not enough that Merkel needs a second Gimp? .



delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 Jun 2020 #1,251
The polling methods are not not sophisticated enough to reach a wide spectrum

I wouldn't be so sure - you only need a sample of around 1000 for it to be reliable. The more interesting thing is to observe what happened last May - people declared support for Konfederacja, but then actually voted for PiS. I think it could happen again, especially among voters for whom voting for PiS would be seen as a faux pas socially.

About what you've just posted - from an aviation point of view, is there any real sense in trying to compete directly against Berlin-Brandenburg? The LOT strategy of developing a solid CEE network combined with long haul flights to Asia wasn't a bad one, but Warsaw is poorly located for long haul flights - Istanbul and the ME airports are better for 'one stop' connections, while Helsinki has the advantage of being close to Asia. I'd much rather see Warsaw become the undisputed capital of CEE flights - do you know what Air Baltic are doing in Riga? That really should be LOT's speciality - a decent network of short/medium haul flights going to Warsaw for business reasons, while maintaining a reasonable long haul network to Asia (and the US). The CPK just isn't needed - it would make more sense to simply make sure that Okęcie is for premium connections, while getting rid of Wizzair and Ryanair out to Modlin where they belong.

The other problem I have with the CPK - it kills domestic flights on most routes, with the possible exception of the Szczecin route. No-one is going to travel all the way out to the CPK just to fly to Kraków or Gdańsk. Business travellers like Okęcie (as they like Tegel) because of the location - it's hard to compete with 20 minutes from airport to downtown.

I also think Berlin-Brandenburg is absolute stupidity for so many reasons, and I was against it from the beginning. Lufthansa won't create a hub there, and Berlin still sucks compared to Munich and Frankfurt economically.

If you think about Berlin, Tegel as the 'business' airport and Schoenfeld as the 'leisure' airport was perfectly fine, just as Okęcie as the 'business' airport and Modlin as the 'leisure' airport.
amiga500 2 | 228
15 Jun 2020 #1,252
I agree it's a risk, I am more impressed with the 1000km of fast rail that will be built as part of CPK, linking up all of Poland. So as an alternative to flying to frankfurt/ and then connection to USA/Asia, poles can catch train to CPK and do the same. The cargo potential of airport over the next 30 years also a positive. Lets face it Chopin is maxxed out, sorounded by the highway and houses. The European Commission had a ruling that it's illegal to force low cost carriers to move from an airport (discrimination) , as was the plan to with Lelystad Airport in Amsterdam. But we need the economic stimulus and a asset along with rail and roads that will last for generations seems like a good bet.

re business commuters from warsaw if its 200km/per hour high speed rail to CPK from cbd then in many regards better than being stuck in traffic to Chopin. With check in/baggage drop off at LOT kiosk in cbd.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 Jun 2020 #1,253
I am more impressed with the 1000km of fast rail that will be built as part of CPK

This is something I'd much rather see built first, because it's badly needed. I remember once having to go to Przemyśl from Poznań, and what struck me was just how long it took to even get to Kraków by train, let alone Rzeszów and beyond. One nice thing about PO and now PiS - both parties committed to upgrading and fixing the rail network, and I think there's broad agreement in society that the railway network needs to be developed further.

The European Commission had a ruling that it's illegal to force low cost carriers to move from an airport (discrimination).

I really don't agree with this to be honest. Aviation is harmful enough to the environment that we should be maximising resources, and Ryanair/Wizzair using Okęcie is just an absolute waste of an airport in a prime location. From a purely strategic point of view, the LCC's aren't bringing in connecting traffic, and tourist traffic won't care if they have to travel an extra half a hour to get to an airport.

I'd be very much in favour of allowing airport operators the possibility of prioritising airlines that operate longer routes. In Poland's case, it would favour LOT, but I really don't see any harm in LCC's using Modlin.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
15 Jun 2020 #1,254
OK, so in that case we may only count on Ironside ..

you go and catch corona virus and shove that 500 zl up yours and if you test positive I will give you another 500 zl, as you are trilled to get this money.

. but supporters of cronyism and corruption.

Well voting Trzaskowski would be supporting those 'values' in their pure unadorned form.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
16 Jun 2020 #1,255
The whole airport investment is really funny. Especially after the chinavirus. Every major airline and investment indicator around the world see's a minimum of two years before airlines, and shipping internationally by air rebounds to pre virus levels. Poland should be spending that money on small business. Programs based on gross sales volumes below say 500 thousand per company getting a grant to develop business and hire new people. That would have a national impact immediately. Give each company in that range who qualifies something like 100K to develop business, and you have people getting back to work and more money flowing pretty quickly. Then if you want to long term plan for a new airport you will have the tax base to do it without killing the people already paying taxes.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
16 Jun 2020 #1,256
Big airport construction and allocating slots are a prime way of getting kickbacks and bribes to keep the troll factories in business and line the pockets of the PiS szlacheta.

Nobody really has been asking for this new airport and I am not convinced the long haul demand exists apart from to the US and Canada which are already well served from Okecie.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
16 Jun 2020 #1,257
PiS: We're the family values party!

Also PiS: We'll throw our own family members under the bus in order to keep our places at the trough!

teleshow.wp.pl/siostrzeniec-mateusza-morawieckiego-krytykuje-pis-lgbt-tvn24-6521852193635136a

Money quote: No one who discriminates against people should be in power.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
16 Jun 2020 #1,258
How does this explain the polling that consistently shows Duda losing to Trzaskowski

The most important poll will take place on June 28 and then on July 12.

I've stopped trusting public opinion polls at least since 2015 elections in which polls predicted a crushing victory of Komorowski over Duda. Of course there are more solid internal polls which major parties order for their own personal use and don't share with the public.

Simply put just like in the army: a political propaganda for the masses and solid information for political command centers to effectively operate on.
amiga500 2 | 228
16 Jun 2020 #1,259
both parties committed to upgrading and fixing the rail network

Well lets hope so. Haven't seen any pro infrastructure massive spending statements by PO and Trashkowski. In fact when Duda went to Konskie to sign a railway infrastructure initiative at the railway station, he was ridiculed for it by PO. When PO attack CPK they are attacking the rail component as well. The PO Pendolino purchase was a mistake and tainted with corruption., buying a tilt train without the tilt option is silly. Equilivant fast trains with speeds of 230km per hr can and should manufactured by PESA.

Intercity Express is mainly for business customers with its pricing , whilst the masses get the TLK crumbs.

Give each company.. something like 100K

PolAm "It's not a handout if I get it" Krakow

without killing the people already paying taxes.

Your CIP was reduced from 19 percent to 9 percent during PiS rule. But maybe after you arrived in Poland? PIT has been reduced. Your workers now under 26 pay no income tax, which is a massive motivation to get a job, work hard and stay in Poland. A world pioneering policy which should be applauded by low tax advocates. And yet you and the other Polams have the gall to say that PiS is strangling You and Poland with taxes!
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
16 Jun 2020 #1,260
@amiga500
My company wouldn't qualify, we make too much. Thanks though. I have never complained about my corporate taxes. I saved 14% just by moving my company to Poland from the USA. CIT is very friendly compared to CIT when adding the state and federal levels together in USA. My personal situation isn't effected by PiS. I can leave if I dont like it, no problem. But it effects everyone I know and do business with here, and they are struggling.

You know nothing of economics. Workers not paying income tax at all is a completely economically retarded policy. It does not create growth. It created a consumerism purchasing mentality and no one prepared for the future that's why they are all broke now. How about those 20 something couples with 4 kids getting 2000 a month plus an extra 1000 a month to mom for not working, plus unemployment to dad who lost his job? Lots of motivation to go back to working a 15 pln per hour job? Women are popping out babies like crazy for cash now, living in very low standard housing, and turning into welfare families. What happens when the 500 plus stopps and all the kids are gone from the house? Disaster.

PiS is robbing ZUS to give away money. If it were tried in the USA with social security? They wouldnt last a day.

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