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Polish President vetoes PO's dingbat gender law


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
2 Oct 2015  #1
President Andrzej Duda has vetoed his first law -- the Gender Act forced through the Sejm by the PO and its anticlerical and libertine allies. The law gives everyone the right to declare on a whim what their gender is regardless of the reproductive organs they were born with. Such a law would have created even more chaos amongst today's gullible. confused or disorented young people or those wanting to show off and call attention to themselves.

Hopefully this marks the first stage of undoing the junk legislation foisted upon the Polish nation by the outgoing Platfus clique.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
2 Oct 2015  #2
President Andrzej Duda has vetoed his first law

Amazing. I thought he would've waited until after the election, but to use his veto already because he doesn't agree with PO legislation can only hurt PiS. I'm surprised he took the bait - the vote was won by over 100 votes, so to contradict the Sejm on such an issue is a terrible move.

Duda's opinion ratings were already only around 35% before this.
Harry
2 Oct 2015  #3
Amazing

The word you are looking for is 'superb'.

to use his veto already because he doesn't agree with PO legislation can only hurt PiS.

Precisely. Nobody is going to vote PIS just because Duda has confirmed that he's a homophobic bigot; however, some people who might have voted for somebody other than PO or might have not voted at all are now certain to vote PO in order to maximise the chances that PIS doesn't get a chance to form another government that disgraces and damages Poland.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
2 Oct 2015  #4
Duda's opinion ratings were already only around 35% before this.

This decision is about coming back to normality,not about ratings.hes from PIS not PO
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
2 Oct 2015  #5
can only hurt PiS

The gender whim law was never something enjoying widespread public support. But in a sense it can be seen as a metaphor symbolising the the entire cock-eyed Church-bashing/perversion-promoting/anti-family syndrome being propagated by the eggheady, leftist, socially anarchic elite.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
2 Oct 2015  #6
This decision is about coming back to normality,not about ratings.hes from PIS not PO

It's everything about ratings. To veto a law that was passed by a large majority in the Sejm will be portrayed in the worst possible light by the government and the smaller parties - and PiS will suffer from it.

PO effectively have baited Duda with this law - and he fell for it.
Dougpol1 30 | 2,936
2 Oct 2015  #7
The president is not supposed to actually use his power of veto at whim

The fact that he has the "the power," and can emphasise such, as a warning or a guide, is supposed to be the whole point of the power of veto. But to actually employ it, after just two months in office, shows what a prize wally this man is.

Sad for Poland.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
2 Oct 2015  #8
's everything about ratings. To veto a law that was passed by a large majority in the Sejm will be portrayed in the worst possible light by the government and the smaller parties - and PiS will suffer from it.

PO effectively have baited Duda with this law - and he fell for it.

I KNOW ,ITS HARD FOR SOME TO COMPREHEND,for PO supporter,THAT Politician WOULD MAKE his DECISION AGAINST RATING BUT WITH AN ACCORD to his morals

its PIS people time.time for people with vision,morality,who base their decision on truth,reality and facts.no more political prostitution, end with people who would eat c.rap on live TV for jump in popularity rating or EU career .bye bye PO.
Harry
2 Oct 2015  #9
PO effectively have baited Duda with this law - and he fell for it.

I think that PIS will simply never understand that they can't keep preaching to the choir, they have to attract the middle-ground, the floating voters.

Sad for Poland.

Actually it's very good for Poland: the more he reminds the voters what PIS are like, the lower the chance that they will ever again form a government that discredits, damages and disgraces Poland.

its PIS people time.time for people with vision,morality,who base their decision on truth,reality and facts.no more political prostitution

Amusing you say that at a time when the most senior PIS official in the country is hiding behind immunity in order to avoid answering for the way he corruptly enriched himself at the expense of the Polish tax-payer.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
2 Oct 2015  #10
I KNOW ,ITS HARD FOR SOME TO COMPREHEND,for PO supporter,THAT Politician WOULD MAKE his DECISION AGAINST RATING BUT WITH AN ACCORD to his morals

I don't think you understand how the Polish people perceive the Presidency. They don't want to see vetoes made because of morals or political reasons - they want to see the veto used sparingly and only for issues that are clearly against the Constitution. Duda made the fatal mistake of using it for his own private reasons as opposed to constitutional reasons - which will hurt PiS as PO and others will now portray him as being petty like Kaczyński.

its PIS people time.time for people with vision,morality,who base their decision on truth,reality and facts.no more political prostitution, end with people who would eat c.rap on live TV for jump in popularity rating or EU career .bye bye PO.

Except the opinion polls are showing that PiS are not anywhere near the numbers needed to win the election.

I think that PIS will simply never understand that they can't keep preaching to the choir, they have to attract the middle-ground, the floating voters.

Exactly. Vetoing a law that enjoyed broad support will simply annoy the centrists.

Amusing you say that at a time when the most senior PIS official in the country is hiding behind immunity in order to avoid answering for the way he corruptly enriched himself at the expense of the Polish tax-payer.

Yes, as I outlined in the other thread, it seems that PiS stand very much for corruption and dishonesty.

Funny that Duda is so moral about this law but completely immoral when it comes to lining his own pockets.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
2 Oct 2015  #11
enjoyed broad support

Enjoyed support only in the PO-dominated Sejm. PO would never have won the past two elections if they had highlighted that degeneracy project during their election campaign. After being safely in office they pulled it out of a magician's hat. Even many PO MPs opposed it but voted the way they thought the leaderhip wanted.They didn't have the guts to pull a Gowin.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
2 Oct 2015  #12
Enjoyed support only in the PO-dominated Sejm.

And Senate.

The thing is that the voters absolutely do not like the President imposing his own values on the decisions of the Parliament. For instance - Wałęsa lost the 1995 election for that reason, and Kwaśniewski won the 2000 election in a landslide for the fact that he showed he could work with AWS.

I'm honestly surprised that Duda chose to do this - it seems that the old PiS problem of not having competent political advisors came through again. He should have simply signed it and said that he respects the will of the Sejm and Senat - which would gain PiS a few votes from the centrists that they badly need.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
2 Oct 2015  #13
centrists

In your view centrists favour the pro-degenerate, sex-change and abortion on a whim agenda? Isn't it mainly the lefty, socially anarchist eggheads? There surely aren't that many of them.
Wulkan - | 3,251
2 Oct 2015  #14
Polish President vetoes PO's dingbat gender law

Great job president. The claims by certain individuals here that this will cause PiS not winning the elections are chucklesome.
Dougpol1 30 | 2,936
2 Oct 2015  #15
We will know in four weeks wont we? And this typical interference does no harm at all to the right wing party of the two choices for government. The one that enabled a majority of 100; it's called democracy.

Your president is laughable, or "chucklesome" if you prefer.
Wulkan - | 3,251
2 Oct 2015  #16
"chucklesome" if you prefer.

I'm glad that the native English speaker like yourself had a chance to learn some new English word from a Polish expat like myself :-)
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
2 Oct 2015  #17
Great job president. The claims by certain individuals here that this will cause PiS not winning the elections are chucklesome.

The problem is that the polls are all showing the same thing - PiS will not win a majority, and instead will face a united opposition that have every interest in keeping PiS well away from power.

Acts like this will not gain PiS any support, but will show Duda as someone who is willing to go against the will of the Sejm and Senat for his own political gain. Voters do not like that.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
2 Oct 2015  #18
Duda as

Au contraire, intelligent voters will see him as a man of principle who does what's right without worrying about cheap populistic popularity.

it's called democracy

More precisely -- pressurocracy: behind-the-scenes intimidation and threats to force MPs the vote how the PO politburo wants them to.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
2 Oct 2015  #19
Polonius, do you think that PiS members have any choice in how they vote on things? Modern parliamentary democracies tend to work this way (the US is an exception, because party discipline is very weak in Congress). You rely on the party to get elected, hence you vote the way the party wants you to vote. May I remind you that Kaczyński has a habit of being re-elected leader without opposition - do you think that the members genuinely have a choice? Don't be bloody ridiculous.

Au contraire, intelligent voters will see him as a man of principle who does what's right without worrying about cheap populistic popularity.

Not really - Polish voters have always been turned off by Presidents interfering in the work of the Parliament.

Remember, the veto is supposed to be used to protect the Constitution as opposed to promoting one's personal agenda.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
2 Oct 2015  #20
promoting one's personal agenda

He was promoting what's best for the Polish nation. Do you really regard Poland as a land of libertines and degenerates? That may apply to Sweden or Holland, but surely not Poland!

Maybe the US model is worthy of emulation. Are you one of the PF racists allergic to every aspect of yankeedom?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
2 Oct 2015  #21
He was promoting what's best for the Polish nation.

If he did, he would respect the democratic will of the Sejm and Senat.

As I said above, he walked into a PO trap - they knew that Duda wouldn't be able to stop himself from vetoing the law (perhaps that's why he was visiting Kaczyński the other night!) - and with it, they will now paint Duda as being out of touch with the will of the Polish people.

Politics is a game, and I'm honestly shocked that Duda fell for one of the most obvious traps in existence. If he didn't agree with it personally, he should have held a press conference and stated that while he opposes the bill on a personal level, he will sign it as he respects the authority of the Sejm and Senat to make the right choices. The aim is to make PiS less "scary" to the electorate - but this does nothing but show that they don't respect the legislative branch.

Maybe the US model is worthy of emulation. Are you one of the PF racists allergic to every aspect of yankeedom?

I don't know if the US model is better or worse. The influence of lobbyists is ridiculous there, as well as the influence on big corporations on candidates - but party discipline is far weaker, too. Hard to say, to be honest. Can you really imagine Kaczyński tolerating a random PiS MP voting with PO on social issues, however?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
2 Oct 2015  #22
out of touch with the will of the Polish people.

There was no referendum asking Poles if they want people to be able to declare on sa whim they're a woman without getting a chop job or man without having something sewn on. Also that issue was never raised during the two campaigns PO waged, it was pulled out of hat towards the end of the second term. The will of the nationa was never consulted.

Politics is a game - but maybe it shouldn't be. It should be a noble mission in the nation's service not just staying at the trough well beyoind all respectable limits. PO is the warm tap-water party, PiS is the party of principle: Bóg * Honor * Ojczyzna!
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
2 Oct 2015  #23
There was no referendum asking Poles if they want people to be able to declare on sa whim they're a woman without getting a chop job or man without having something sewn on. Also that issue was never raised during the two campaigns PO waged, it was pulled out of hat towards the end of the second term. The will of the nationa was never consulted.

This is how democracy works. The bill itself wasn't a PO bill and wasn't introduced by a PO member - it was a bill introduced by a member of the Sejm, as was her right to do so. The fact that PO and others voted for it doesn't mean anything - it's quite common in parliamentary systems for such bills to be introduced and passed. Happens all the time in the US Congress, too.

Politics is a game - but maybe it shouldn't be. It should be a noble mission in the nation's service not just staying at the trough well beyoind all respectable limits. PO is the warm tap-water party, PiS is the party of principle: Bóg * Honor * Ojczyzna!

Remember Polonius - Duda refused to waive his immunity so that he could be investigated properly over the recent accusations of blatant fraud involving taxpayers money. That, combined with several other scandals, shows how PiS is rather the party of corruption. For a party that claims to be a party of principle, they're remarkably unwilling to actually confront such scandals properly. Even Hofman is still working with PiS through a third party - shouldn't he be gone forever?
Wulkan - | 3,251
3 Oct 2015  #24
PiS will not win a majority, and instead will face a united opposition

Who is stopping PiS from uniting?
agx
3 Oct 2015  #25
If you read polish forums , you would know that this veto will not hurt neither the PiS nor the president.
And there are very interesting things related to "hire" things by the previous occupant of the presidential palace and his team.
Add to that the Prime Minister simply joking and the internet has just made it only chuckling.
Btw in the same studio polls within a few days the president had 35% support and the president had 55% support.
I don't know how this studio do it, but they are always wrong.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
3 Oct 2015  #26
If you read polish forums , you would know that this veto will not hurt neither the PiS nor the president.

So PiS supporters think. Duda went from approval ratings in the 50's to the mid 30's already, and he will sink further with such moves.

And there are very interesting things related to "hire" things by the previous occupant of the presidential palace and his team.

Yeah yeah. Usual PiS talk where they try and deflect their crimes by accusing others of committing them. There is absolutely no excuse for Duda to hide behind immunity - it's clear that he used public cash to make private cash, and he should waive his immunity so it can be investigated properly.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
3 Oct 2015  #27
Although I am (always have been and always will be) 100% in favor of equality to all in any country, is such a law a priority in Poland? Doesn't Poland and don't Poles have other priorities? I seriously doubt that it is the main concern among Poles. I am sure that 99.98% of Poles don't know anything about it.

I know how politicians "function" but when are they going to really feel concerned about people's main concern? People want more and better paid jobs (most Polish youth mean to move West), job security, good health system, good education, good transportation, safety on the streets... What about the socalled "garbage contracts" concerning a few million workers? What about close to starvation old age pensions? What about long waiting lists at hospitals? What about poverty? Obviously those nicely fed tanned politicians don't care.

As a result, fewer than 50% of Poles bother voting (I don't blame them)...

@Delph: at the very least, 99.99% of Poles don't favor such measures, so NO issue whatsoever on the political scene.
Polsyr 6 | 769
3 Oct 2015  #28
is such a law a priority in Poland?

I believe they did it exclusively to trick him to veto. And it worked.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
3 Oct 2015  #29
@Polsyr: it could well be but purely childish since won't matter to political scene as at least 99.99% of Poles would be against that "law". Duda of course won't be hurt to veto such "laws". People are more interested in things related to their very daily life.

I believe that if PO and consorts want to hurt Duda and PiS, they'd better find something that most Poles can be concerned about.

Duda's veto on such issues won't favor PO and allies.
Crow 137 | 7,590
3 Oct 2015  #30
Duda is right. He protected Poland.


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