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Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia


dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007
11 Apr 2010 #151
I am pretty sure the cause of this crash is going to be human error..but it sure as hell was not a Russian error....

I just hope the pilot doesnt get the blame. I cant see this being his fault, have u seen the crash site pics....ur ex army what u think?
wildrover 98 | 4,451
11 Apr 2010 #152
ur ex army what u think?

Well...looks exactly like you would expect it to look after an aircraft hit the ground short of the runway...

My guess is that 300 metres from the runway the pilot decided to go aound one more time , and banked the aircraft left..unfortunatly he was so low at this point his left wing hit the tree tops and the aircraft cartwheeled into the trees , breaking up and catching fire....

The only thing that puzzles me is this six minutes with no contact with the ground...?

What would cause a pilot to make an attempt at landing in such weather after losing his only guide to where the dam runway was....????
Dougpol
11 Apr 2010 #153
The only thing that puzzles me is this six minutes with no contact with the ground...?

Where is this quoted from? Is that official? Nothing in the British press.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
11 Apr 2010 #154
Where is this quoted from?

Some Russian reports are saying this...but its not been confirmed....
jonni 16 | 2,485
11 Apr 2010 #155
Where is this quoted from? Is that official? Nothing in the British press.

It's been on the news here in Poland, and could explain why the plane crashed. The voice recorder is more significant though.
wildrover 98 | 4,451
11 Apr 2010 #156
FROM PRAVDA RUSSIAN NEWS...

Poland Beheaded in Russian Forest
Front page / Hotspots and Incidents / Disasters, catastrophes
10.04.2010 Source: Pravda.Ru

The crash killed 97 people, 88 of them were members of the official Polish delegation. Black boxes have been found on the crash site, Itar-Tass reports.

The plane crashed when trying to land on the military airdrome of Smolensk. The fog was very thick, and the Polish pilots attempted to land the plane three times. The fourth attempt resulted in the tragedy. Specialists say that the plane brushed against tree tops and crashed in flames.

Evalina 1 | 5
11 Apr 2010 #157
Well, the black boxes were found. Let's see what they will uncover. I strongly believe that Russians did it, just like they did 70 years ago. And I am very suspicious of Putin being personally in charge of the investigation. Will he try to hide the evidence...? Russians have a history of being crooks and liars, now the have a chance of proving otherwise.

Poland will survive as we did many times throughout the centuries. And I hope that the world will see Russians as they are: snakes, crooks and liars.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542
11 Apr 2010 #158
Yeah.. while Putin sets up candles in the church for the grief he saw and crossing himself while Americans do what? Make more "Pollack" jokes?! ARE YOU EVEN SANE! :((
Paseante - | 1
11 Apr 2010 #159
What a terrible disaster! Scotland is mourning with you.
Filios1 8 | 1,336
11 Apr 2010 #160
Yeah.. while Putin sets up candles in the church for the grief he saw and crossing himself while Americans do what? Make more "Pollack" jokes

Very good point...

I think that Russian reaction right now is showing their true face... AVerage Russian is disturbed by this incident, and is in solidarity with the Polish nation. Some crazy conspiracy theories will do nothing to dissuade me. When the black box are found, and it turns out that it was pilot error, and pressure to be at the ceremony on time, I will come back and ask where these fools are that blame Russia...

Of course, they will be hiding.

Do these fools even realize what the implications would be for Russia if she did have a hand in this?? This would most certainly lead to horrific violence, and most likely a war of some kind involving multiple countries. You can't kill 100 of a countries elite, and get away with it today, no way in hell.
z_darius 14 | 3,968
11 Apr 2010 #161
If the Russians do not allow Poland full rights to the investigation, I will see it as a assasination. For goodness sake, it was the president of our country, how can you not allow us right to our leaders.

I think you're jumping the gun.

In fact the Russians said the whole investigation will be conducted in close co-operation with the Poles. They also say they won't do any work on the black box without Polish investigators present.

Let's live and see.
RonWest 3 | 120
11 Apr 2010 #162
My deepest and most sincere condolences to the people and country of Poland for your very sad loss. May the lord be your guide during this difficult time.
Salamandra - | 1
11 Apr 2010 #163
Dreaming... all of you. The only fact is Tu 154M was and is Russian flying shit:

"The Tupolev-154 that crashed in Russia Saturday in an accident that killed Polish President Lech Kaczynski and other 95 people, a Russian aircraft is the first model was manufactured 42 years ago and has suffered 15 major accidents since 1990 that killed 1,200 people."

Voila!
Velund 1 | 398
11 Apr 2010 #164
The only fact is Tu 154M was and is Russian flying *********

airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/aircraft_detail.cgi?aircraft=Tupolev+TU-154

There are 29 crash records for the Tupolev TU-154 (all modifications) in database. And only 4 of them (as I can see) can be clearly attributed to aircraft problems. There is 19 crashes since 1990 and only 10 accidents with 154M during all time. Where you got your numbers, of course?

By the way, there are 84 crash records for the Boeing 737 for approximately the same period (6285 planes built vs 1015 TU-154)... Have no time to browse all B737 records to figure out how many crashes is due to technical problems and how mane due to people stupidity... But anyway, TU-154 records is looks not so bad, compared to others...
Hermenegilda
11 Apr 2010 #165
Listen, Guys! Tupolev Yu-154 crash was caused by a NATO missile or an electromagnetic pulse weapon. Three Russian boys saw this plane just before the crash flying very low above the ground and there was no thick fog there at all. Even if it was a little foggy, it was a perfect screen for assasins. A plane that crashes from such a small distance from the ground, cannot be in any way so totally wrecked as Tu-154 was. Kaczynski, with all due respect, was a CIA puppet and a New World Order Elite pet. He was against bringing Euro into Poland and was very pro-American. Very narrow minded, politically stiff and old fashioned. Should have retired a long time ago. Komorowski will bring fresh air and reform to Polish government. Dixi et animam levavi!

Listen, Ola. There ae things behind the scenes that you would never imagine. Never ever trust media! You need to broaden your vision and do some independent research into Illuminati, New World Order, Bildergerg Group, electromagnetic pulse weapons and HAARP weapons. olitics is not so black and white, dear...
Velund 1 | 398
11 Apr 2010 #166
You need to broaden your vision and do some independent research into Illuminati, New World Order, Bildergerg Group, electromagnetic pulse weapons and HAARP weapons.

Why so narrow list? Let's add torsion fields, Planet X A.K.A. Nibiru, UFOs and the rest.....

Don't know where you got information that there was no fog, I read Smolensk forums just minutes after tragedy, and people told there that they cannot clearly see cars on ground from 9th floor window.
Sasha 2 | 1,083
11 Apr 2010 #167
Are you out of your mind? How old are you? I can understand you because I was forced to learn your language from the fifth grade for 7 years! I do not hate Russians, I just feel sorry for brain washed idiots.

No Evalina, we just read what you wrote. And that what you wrote was:

Russians have a history of being crooks and liars, now the have a chance of proving otherwise.

Politicians have never been angels.

I've got no clue who are those "brainwashed idiots", but I'm convinced that most of the world's population is more or less brainwashed. Possibly you're among them.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,069
11 Apr 2010 #168
Lech Kaczynski was neither anti-Russian nor anti-semitic for that matter. I am not a supporter of his party, Law and Justice, but saying he was anti-Russian is simply not true. He fought for the cause of Poland and opposed Putin who tried to play one member of the EU against another or against the rest of the EU. But what Putin did, and what Kaczyński counteracted, is a normal game in politics. On the other hand, President Kaczyński was for the Polish-Russian reconcilliation with all his heart. I heard the Polish co-president of the Polish-Russan Commision for Resolving Difficult Matters saying the late President once met with the two co-presidents of this commission telling them he was never ever in his life anti-Russian and that he wished sincere reconcilliation between our two nations. The Commision was doing a great job, and many people behind-the-news, such as the Polish ambassador in Moscow Jerzy Bahr, had a great share in that on the Polish side.

Such people here on the forum as Evalina on the Polish side, and KonstantineK on the Russian side, are simply spreading hatred between the Poles and the Russians, looking always into the past and never into the future, and always blaming others, like the late President Kaczyński or Prime Minister Putin, for spreading that hatred.
eire39 2 | 9
11 Apr 2010 #169
Does anyone know when the funerals will start?... What is going to happen in the next few days (working days)? This is just awful, just awful
mafketis 23 | 8,395
11 Apr 2010 #170
I read that Kachinsky's government

Your good will might be more believable if you respected the dead enough to spell their names correctly. Polish is not Russian written in English letters, it has its own alphabet that you're disrespecting by misspelling the name of Kaczyński. Not having the ń letter is excusable but ch for cz and y for i are not.
johnh - | 3
11 Apr 2010 #171
MY CONDOLENCES TO ALL POLISH PEOPLE FOR YOUR TRAGIC LOSS
Crow 139 | 8,596
11 Apr 2010 #172
Would you believe me if i say that i was absolutely sure in tragic destine of Polish president Kaczynski? Would you?

Let me explain

That confidence of mine in destine of Polish president, coming from hate on Serbian people of which i became aware from long time ago. Its powerful hate of powerful forces. Simple, somebody decided that Balkan must be remodeled and pledged to do so. Serbs opposed and generated great hate on itself. Our old foes decided to finish with us once and for all.

You can`t imagine what THEY did to us,... in media, in economic blockade, in trade embargo, in bombardments, in support to Muslim terrorists against us, in military actions side by side with Arab mujaheedines, in land and air attacks, in assassinations of our state representatives, etc, etc.

So, when i sow how strongly Polish president defended Serbian (South Slavic) interests, i was sure, i was sure in his tragic destine... for this man was one of rare who dared to be open and honest. Sure, Kaczynski was politician, too. He calculated and he was intelligent enough to conclude that after Serbs are crashed turn coming to Poles, as always in history. Those who attacked Serbs would attack Poles sooner or later, Kaczynski was sure. So, he defending Serbs, defended Poles as Wladislaw Warnencyk, as Zawisha Czarny and Jan Sobieski before him. Brave man died defending Poland, time would prove it. He didin`t hide, he wasn`t selfish, he served to Poland.

Thank you Mr. Kaczynski. Thanks in the name of Serbian children for you were not selfish

[Hvala Gospodine Kaèinski. Hvala u ime srpske dece, jer ti nisi bio sebièan.]
Stu 12 | 522
11 Apr 2010 #173
Would you believe me if i say that i was absolutely sure in tragic destine of Polish president Kaczynski? Would you?

No ... I don't! You're so intelligent in hind sight, aren't you? (I wonder why hindside and hind sight have a similar spelling)

Would you believe me if I said I had a nightmare two nights ago in which a Polish airplane crashed? I hope not ... :S.

A plane that crashes from such a small distance from the ground, cannot be in any way so totally wrecked as Tu-154 was.

Let me explain something about physics to you ...

If you drop a stationary airplane from two meters off the ground, then you can expect the plane to be damaged but not smashed to pieces. I grant you that. But if the aircraft has a horizontal speed of 155 knots and it smacks into a couple of trees, try to guess what you are left with ... ?

Try it yourself if you dont believe me. Do you have a drivers licence? Please, rent a Ferrari somewhere and run it with 178mph (287kmh) into a tree. Then get out and make a picture of the wreckage. Don't forget to send it to me.

Give me strength ... :S
Robert Warren
11 Apr 2010 #174
Katyn - I had almost forgotten about the massacre of the 15 thousand, or was it 19 thousand, or 21 thousand officers> 10 would be a crime, but it's in THE PAST!

Yes, it was in the past, but the Katyn itself is a symbol of much greater and sinister genocide to which Poland and its citizens were subjected by the Soviet Union. By memorializing the Katyn's victims we also memorialize the fate of 2.5+ million Polish citizens who perished in the "Inhuman Land", and who to this day remain unacknowledged, and unaccounted for. So, in the simplest of terms Katyn symbolizes far more than the tragic fate of 21,000 thousand officers murdered there with a single shot to the back of the head. May the souls of the President of Poland, the First Lady, and all others who perished there rest in peace.

Robert Warren
DannyJ - | 129
11 Apr 2010 #175
Pilot Error do to massive pressure from Kaczynski to land.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 Apr 2010 #176
I don't believe there's any conspiracy here. Russia would have the whole word against them if they were found to have done sth. There were a few strange details but you just have to use your nose to steer you. 9/11 just had too many inconsistencies, this affair didn't. The Mossad? I sincerely doubt that. If the EU champions were really hardline, they would have killed the Czech PM for stalling on the Lisbon Treaty. No need to probe too deeply in this case.
mafketis 23 | 8,395
11 Apr 2010 #177
My gut instinct (in the absence of other compelling information) is that this was, in fact, an accident, a combination of bad equipment and forced pilot error (even if the president wasn't pressuring him to land, the memory of the azerbaijan incident had to be on his mind).

I'm as interested in conspiracy theories as the next guy, but I do realize that accidents happen too (for hardcore conspiracies nothing is ever accidental).
Dmitry_UA
11 Apr 2010 #178
Dear Friens,
Just wanted to bring my condolence due to this horrible tragedy.
We are realy shocked here in Ukraine and really sorrow.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
11 Apr 2010 #179
Video recreation of 'crash' from RIA Novost...What do you notice?

en.rian.ru/video/20100410/158515224.html
markinlondon 1 | 3
11 Apr 2010 #180
I'm very sad to hear about this tragedy. Whatever the cause, I'm sure it was an accident. IMHO it's wrong to speculate further about why it happened, with so many people mourning and no real evidence as yet. I'm sorry for the loved ones of all those affected.


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