Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom?

Yes that could be.

But what I don't get is that the Russians knew this airport would be used by foreigners, especially for this occasion.

You would think they would have prepared it better, especially with the ground detecting ILC component that most airplanes equipped with this, like this plane, needed for landing.

As for this "Thick fog" thing, I find this suspect.

If you look at the pictures of the plane after it crashed, you can clearly see the plane with no "thick fog" from the camera to the plane's remains. You can also see the trees in the distance.

Also how did those Russian kids OBSERVE the plane in detail in the distance as it was crashing with all of the "THICK fog"????????????

Something doesn't add up here.

Secret societies may exist, but this was no assassination. Just an accident. The pilot was probably forced to land and he should not have listened.

It is ridiculously expensive to put an ILS in place. There are quite a few airports here in Poland without an ILS.


Reason enough for the IL to return to Moscow after a pair of approaches.

There was also video shot at the crash site showing very low ceilings.

For the fog not to work, you'd have to make sure that all 300k people in Smolensk played along, as well as all the Poles that were there (including a gaggle of journalists).

Since this airport would undoubtedly be used by foreigners for this special occasion maybe the pilot thought the airport had it.


Do you have a link to the video of the crash site showing low ceilings?

Also how long did it take for the Polish journalists to get to the crash site after the crash?

You don't assume anything. You have charts, and you plan your approach before you take off.

The gunshot clip from earlier.
youtube.com/watch?v=-v59q5Vyp8o

Obviously clearing up, but still way too low for an NDB approach.

This shows some pretty thick soup as well.


No clue, but they were in Katyn, so they probably had access to a window. Are there any reports by Polish eye witnesses that the weather was good?

Well I don't know about that.

Cloudy skies yes. "THICK FOG"??? "SOUP"?? No.

When people tell me that there is a "THICK FOG" or "SOUP" for weather, I'm thinking you can't see 30 feet in front of you like when we had fog here in the US where I live.

You can easily see 100 feet to the crashed plane from the camera.

It seems most of the "Thick fog" or "Soup" is coming from the airplane smoke.

Lets say that visibility is 500ft, that means the crew has a little under 2 seconds to react to things ahead of it when traveling at 270kph, which is around the approach speed.


For a non precision approach, this was well thick enough. With your 30 ft, you'll have plenty of time to react to things in front of you.

anyway, g'night

Please read skysoulmate post about the fog matter here (post n. 106 at reply to Seanus)
it is very clarifying

OK I read what skysoulmate said.

It seems this fog thing is an ambiguous thing.

Anybody can be right or wrong about it depending on what angle you look at it.

But to Skysoulmate's point, I guess fog should always be taken seriously no matter how much there is of it.

It just seems strange how that fog came and went so fast.

On another note,

Do you know if its true that the Russians told the Poles up there that they could not use their cell phones or cameras at the site?

Quick reply via my iPhone:

You're correct, fog can never be taken for granted. The initial video might not show "thick fog" to the person on the ground but it probably looked much different from above while traveling at let's say 160 knots. Don't know TU-154's final approach speed but 160kts is very feasible and if so that's almost 300km/h.

As far as cell phone and camera restriction - standard procedure at our military bases in case of incidents. Cell phones because most have cameras in them...

I can't believe I'm defending the Russkies on this thread. ;)

PS.
Convex's posts in general and the reply #768 regarding this very issue is spot on.

you're just stating facts ;P

True but it almost hurts. ;)

Just keedin' 

I think Ahmadinejad is behind all this. Lol?

What the hell makes you think that mata hari?

Interesting stuff. But we must always keep asking questions about this crash since on its face it seems so strange with it happening near Katyn, with a Polish president who wasn't liked by those Russians who wanted to keep silent on Katyn, ect etc.

Having said that,

What's the feeling in Poland now? Could this tragedy actually have a silver lining where relations between Poland and Russia can get better, or will this just be a temporary bonding between the Slavic nations?

On a side note, that bum Barack Obama was playing gulf today during Kacynskis' funeral.

On the top left side of drudgereport.com there is an article from a Polish paper talking about Obama playing gulf today.

What a bum.

I think Russians are behind the assassination of Polish president. Too many things went wrong and in most of them there was a Russian finger.

Kaczynski was a man of word and will. He wasn't the one to be pushed around or someone who will suck up to the neighbors betraying his own country's interest. Ukraine had a great ally and friend in Kaczynski. Poland and Ukraine lost a great man. RIP.

what's the word on the investigation?

Kaczynski was not assasinated by the Russians. Why is it so hard to believe some things are unfortunate accidents that involve bad timing? Why blame the Russians for something they had no control over and didn't do?

Well.... maybe because so many things about the circumstances of the crash don't indicate pilot error?

So many things do indicate pilot error. The plane was flying in less than ideal circumstances. It's dangerous, and poses more risk whenever conditions are not ideal. That is what's stopping dignitaries from attending the funereal. The volcanic ash creates the same sort of situation. Many more planes could crash. Would you blame them on Russia if they did?

There have been reports of a decoy beacon and approach lights moved onto fence posts.

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Personally, I believe that assassination is a possibility in this case. It better to be investigated and outcome of such investigation presented to public in some graphical way.

Could you refer me to a text explaining why bodies of dead in this event were in Moscow till today?

they are NOT the same situation.

the volcano represents LK's unrest

Supposedly for identification, as reported in the media.

it's all myths right? Suck on this for a while.

Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846.
John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946.

Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860.
John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960.

Both wives lost children while living in the White House.

Both Presidents were shot on a Friday.
Both Presidents were shot in the head.

Lincoln's secretary was named Kennedy.
Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln.

Both were assassinated by Southerners.
Both were succeeded by Southerners.

Both successors were named Johnson.

Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808.
Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908.

John Wilkes Booth, who assassinated Lincoln, was born in 1839.
Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated Kennedy, was born in 1939.

Both assassins were known by their three names.
Both names are comprised of fifteen letters.

Lincoln was shot at the theater named "Kennedy".
Kennedy was shot in a car called "Lincoln".

Booth ran from the theater and was caught in a warehouse.
Oswald ran from a warehouse and was caught in a theater.

Booth and Oswald were assassinated before their trials.

A week before Lincoln was shot, he was in Monroe, Maryland.
A week before Kennedy was shot, he was in Marilyn Monroe

Both wore black pants.

Bizarre. What's the opposite of blowing someone's mind?


...or emergency bucket lighting.

Assassination by elements of UK, US, Israeli 'intelligence' networks...Meaning mafiya...Germans may have some ideas also.

I would suggest bomb on plane.

Any ideas why?

And this is what is feeding a lot of the nonsense - people just don't understand what an ILS system is, let alone how it works. I get the feeling that most of the conspiracy theorists conveniently forget to mention just how much kit is involved with a commercial ILS system.

Likewise, you don't just turn up and expect to find an ILS system!

The big mystery is why the pilots kept attempting the landing after being strongly recommended to go elsewhere.

It's not too unusual to attempt an approach. It is very unusual to descend past minimums.