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Is it possible that Polish president was assasinated? If so then, by whom?


convex 20 | 3,930
18 Apr 2010 #691
Can you provide any information on portable ILS? I've never seen one, and would be interested to know more. And if there was such a thing, would you trust it to bring your government officials in?

There was a published NDB approach.
Olga 1 | 330
18 Apr 2010 #692
If ONLY BOTH TLS and TAWS were removed/tampered with, how would the plane land?
These are both to ensure proper orientation at landing approach--TLS for the correct PATH approach and TAWS which warns pilots when they are too close to the ground.

Tell me: What would the result be if BOTH of these were not working?
wildrover 98 | 4,441
18 Apr 2010 #693
Please listen, I think I know how the plane was sabotaged, exactly what equipment when and where.

This makes you a prime suspect then....!
Olga 1 | 330
18 Apr 2010 #694
Stay on topic. ONE OR THE OTHER IS VITAL for the pilot to land the plane.
convex 20 | 3,930
18 Apr 2010 #695
If ONLY BOTH TLS and TAWS were removed/tampered with, how would the plane land?

TAWS doesn't help you land, it only keeps you from flying into the ground.

The plane would land just like any other non precision approach. You would fly the approach down to a certain height, and go missed if you didn't see the runway. You fly the glide slope based on your ground speed, rate of descent, and distance from a fixed point.
Olga 1 | 330
18 Apr 2010 #696
DURING THE LANDING APPROACH, NO OTHER INSTRUMENTS ARE AS CRITICAL TO LANDING AS THIS. WHICH IS WHY THE PILOT WOULD NOT HAVE REPORTED ANY INSTRUMENT ERRORS OR MALFUNCTIONS AT ALTITUDE. ALL HELL WOULD BREAK LOOSE ONLY UPON APPROACH TO LAND.
Olga 1 | 330
18 Apr 2010 #698
GET THE PILOT OR EX-PILOT IN FROM THE OTHER BOARD.
convex 20 | 3,930
18 Apr 2010 #699
Hi, I'm a CFI.

Edit: But not a very good one.
Olga 1 | 330
18 Apr 2010 #700
CONVEX: Read my last 3 posts, please, if you could be so kind.
convex 20 | 3,930
18 Apr 2010 #701
I mean, it's obviously you don't know what you're talking about, but I'm really bored.

You don't need TAWS to land a plane.

You don't need a glide slope receiver to land a plane.

You first have to realize, that there are different types of instrument approaches.

avweb.com/news/system/183202-1.html

This is a good primer.

Each one of those approaches will have different minimums that you can fly down to. For an NDB approach, the minimums will be much higher than for an ILS
wildrover 98 | 4,441
18 Apr 2010 #702
GET THE PILOT OR EX-PILOT IN FROM THE OTHER BOARD.

Is that an order...?

Typing in capitals does not make your statements any less muppet...
Olga 1 | 330
18 Apr 2010 #703
BUT FOR AN NDB APPROACH DON'T YOU NEED THE TAWS TO BE FUNCTIONAL?
convex 20 | 3,930
18 Apr 2010 #704
You don't need TAWS. 99% of small GA planes don't have TAWS.
Olga 1 | 330
18 Apr 2010 #705
This was not a Cessna we're talking about.
wildrover 98 | 4,441
18 Apr 2010 #706
OLGA....THS IS POINTLESS...YOU ARE ALREADY CONVINCED....THE REST OF US NEVER WILL BE....SO WHY PERSIST...GIVE IT UP...
Olga 1 | 330
18 Apr 2010 #707
Why would you compare the presence or absence of components on one type of plane to those of a completely different aircraft? They are built differently for a reason, are they not?
Olga 1 | 330
18 Apr 2010 #709
Is SKYSOULMATE around anywhere? He flies passenger planes, which is exactly what the Tuo-154 was.
kuro - | 12
18 Apr 2010 #710
if we had that kind of evidence about 9/11 in the USA
.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/the_bear_is_back_2 9sbM8G9YLgjZLsfJbElYK

i'd make you note that what olga has posted is not evidence, it's just part of the theory she's substaining. And yeah ok these are good argumentations. But can't be called "evidence"..btw on 9/11 there were very similar strongly-builted argumentations..actually i'd say they were even more convincing..!

There is an old saying....amongst many Slavic peoples.
An answer to the question of how do you trust a russian?
Put your trust in your sword and the sword in the russian.

this is the most racist saying i've ever heard.. that could be fair to say in the previous century maybe..but now..?? I don't actually know what is passing in Putin's mind but what about russians? A significant part of them have shown theirself honestly concerned and supportive toward Poles tragedy. Are we talking about russian population or russian govern in that stupid saying..??

Poland's Tragedy Russia's Gain

be careful not to read only the article, but also who's writing it... i don't trust that man..

That sounds like a train blasting its horn....

i have to agree this time, but i still need to listen to those firetruck sirenas..nothing can be sure.. X(
anyway, the video is showing some russian police (or military? sorry i don't know) running to the place..so it seems the very first approach to the accident area..is it possible that a firetruck was already coming to the area..?

One more flight recorder (unprotected one, that rarely survive a crash) is found in decent condition. It contains a copy of all (parametric?) data, same as "black box". Recorder made in Poland, so it was decided that it will be readed and decoded in Poland, in a company where it was manufactured.

I've actually read a news on my local newspaper talking about the 3rd black box being made in Poland and thus, being directly decoded and analysed in Poland..isn't it right? Are we talking about the same thing? This news was like 2 days old anyway.

If they're moving it, why don't they just get Polish investigator's to arrange the remnants to be tagged and shipped to Poland. Confiscation?

According to what i know, when something happens in any foreign soil, that something have to be investigated by local authorities. I don't find anything strange in Russia conducing the investigations.. And according to news i've read from my Country newspaper and from Internet websites, the investigating committee is composed by both russian and poles experts..so i don't really get your point on all the investigation side.. is there any article stating that the poles experts have said they felt cut out from the investigations?

would have been the sabotage of the plane’s altimeter so that the pilot would have thought he was higher up than he was.

i thought about that but i bet the pilots would notice that during the flight or at the take-off...or maybe the altimeter was sabotaged during the flight..? ;D

(3) Who put your President for landing in fog to the not prepared airbase? Russian Il-76 with security officials turned back to Moscow after landing attempt just before Polish TU-154.

About this matter..i've read Kaczynski didn't take part to the same commemoration Tusk was at in Moscow since he prefered making something more...'in his way'...so i was wondering if that ceremony was actually decently organised..
convex 20 | 3,930
18 Apr 2010 #711
Why would you compare the presence or absence of components on one type of plane to those of a completely different aircraft? They are built differently for a reason, are they not?

The approach is what matters, not the plane. Why would you need TAWS or a glideslope receiver for an NDB approach? These approaches only bring you down to a certain height above the runway, at which point you land the plane visually.
kuro - | 12
18 Apr 2010 #712
1) the airport had the ILS removed after Tusk's visit, but before Kaczynksi's

some articles stated this, more or less..Tusk landed few days before and security measures were taken..

2) the TAWS system on the plane was removed/tampered with during its servicing in Russia

are we sure that the Tu wasn't used after the revision and before the tragic flight..? Isn't all the instrumentation checked before every take-off?
asik 2 | 220
18 Apr 2010 #713
Here all the videos (including the amateur video and the same amatour video "improved" by removing gun shots and voices and showed by Russians)

and other controversial materials which need to be examine & explain, but not ignored

wolnapolska.pl/index.php/Artyku%C5%82y/to-mog-by-zamach-najwiksze-wtpliwoci.html
Olga 1 | 330
18 Apr 2010 #714
Is *SKYSOULMATE* around, does anyone know? If he is, can he help? He flies passenger planes which is exactly what the Tup was. It's not a ground-to air-craft--like helicopters.
convex 20 | 3,930
18 Apr 2010 #715
What do you need explained? This is aviation 101.
skysoulmate 14 | 1,294
18 Apr 2010 #716
Is *SKYSOULMATE* around, does anyone know? If he is, can he help? He flies passenger planes which is exactly what the Tup was. It's not a ground-to air-craft--like helicopters.

Just logged on and saw this post. In my recurrent training as we "speak" so I'm pretty busy. I'll try to reply later this evening but will have to go through all the replies and questions... It'd make it easier if you could summarize the question(s). Never flown Tupolevs; in my civilian flying I have some Airbus time but mainly heavy Boeings. However an airplane is an airplane...

Also, could someone summarize the "Georgia" incident and I think there was another incident involving Polish military pilots? Ideally I'd like to hear the Polish NTSB's versions of what happened... (National Transportation Safety Board - the US aviation safety investigation arm, not sure what the Polish organization is called)
Olga 1 | 330
18 Apr 2010 #717
*SKYSOULMATE*

Here's my summary:

If both the TLS and TAWS were removed/tampered with, how would the plane land? (Not considering any other components).

These are both to ensure proper orientation at landing approach--TLS for the correct path approach and TAWS, which warns pilots when they are too close to the ground. Or aren't they? (Crash site: Look at the angle of approach and how low it was flying).

What would the result be if both of these were not working?

One or the other is critical to landing the plane, is it not? But neither?

During the landing approach, no other instruments are as critical to landing as this, are they not? Which would explain why the pilot would not have reported any instrument errors or malfunctions at altitude. All hell would break loose only upon the approach to land.

For an NDB approach, isn't the TAWS critical?

Article on the TAWS in passenger flight craft--as discussed by the manufacturer of the one that was in the Tup-154 and a crash site investigator:

usatoday.com/travel/flights/2010-04-13-fog-plane-crash-poland_N.htm
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,004
18 Apr 2010 #718
Jesus Olga, u really are a flipping nutjob! Or should we be calling you celinski?

Another example of a looney coming back with a different name.
convex 20 | 3,930
18 Apr 2010 #719
For an NDB approach, isn’t the TAWS critical?

The altimeter and the stopwatch are important :)
Olga 1 | 330
18 Apr 2010 #720
Also, could someone summarize the "Georgia" incident and I think there was another incident involving Polish military pilots? Ideally I'd like to hear the Polish NTSB's versions

Does anyone know where to find this, or if someone already might have this information? If so, could the link be posted? Thanks.

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