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Visegrad Battle Group under the command of Poland


OP boletus 30 | 1,366
21 May 2012 #181
In meantime the Polish component of the EU Weimar Battlegroup undergoes its final verification during the exercise "Wyzwanie 12" (Challenge 12). The battlegroup, lead by Poland and commanded by General T. Andrzejczak, a commander of 17th Wielkopolska Mechanized Brigade, is to be on standby from January 1st, 2013. France and Germany play support roles in this battlegroup: France - medical support, Germany - logistical support. The Polish manoeuvre battalion, is to be fully operational and ready to departure within 10 days after receiving their orders to go. Its task will be to respond to military threats, but also to crises, such as floods and other natural disasters.

About 1,700 soldiers, mostly from 17th Wielkopolska Mechanized Brigade participate in the exercise. They use Rosomaks (wheeled armed vehicles), helicopters, armored aircraft, marine ferries, cannon-howitzers. Crews of Rosomaks, Honker pickups and Star trucks have already set off into three regions Poland. In Świnoujście they will be loading their equipment on ships, in Powidz - into Hercules military airplanes. In Wędrzyn training grounds - they will take on various tasks, such as crowd control or response to shelling of their base or to enemy attack on their patrols. Commanders must demonstrate their ability to respond quickly to changing situations, such as equipment break down or various mishaps. The soldiers will be faced with many surprises: they will have to put out fires, eliminate pollution, evacuate damaged equipment and handle crowd control.
peterweg 37 | 2,321
21 May 2012 #182
Nice. What about close air support? Any attack helicopters
sascha 1 | 826
21 May 2012 #183
some people here play to much risiko. it sees. :)
Ironside 49 | 10,447
21 May 2012 #184
What about close air support?

Ready !!!

h
OP boletus 30 | 1,366
21 May 2012 #185
Any attack helicopters

There is no specific info about it, other than this:

The exercise "Challenge - 12" is one of the greatest tactical exercises conducted by the Polish Armed Forces in 2012. Its extent can be demonstrated by the fact that it takes place in three provinces: Lubuskie, West Pomerania and Wielkopolska. The exercise involves, in addition to troops, nearly 500 units of hardware, including but not limited to: Rosomak (Wolverine) armored personnel carriers, self-propelled 152 mm cannon-howitzer DANA, anti-aircraft ZU-23-2 Hibneryt, helicopters, transport aircraft and sea-going ferries and many others. At the same time, during the "Challenge - 12", four Polish types of the Armed Forces train and work together: Army, Navy, Air Force and Military Police.

...
"Challenge - 12" and the subsequent international certification "Common chalange - 12" is an important element of preparation of the EU Weimar Battle Group.

wojsko-polskie.pl/aktualnosci/19155,podjete-wyzwanie.html

And here is something from the French side:

Things are getting serious for the French, German and Polish battlegroup - the rapid reaction force of the European Union - during the next six months. The training program is being communicated to the partners. Poles provide the bulk of the force...The Force headquarters (FHQ) of the battlegroup is to be in Mont-Valérien (France, near Paris).

Certification of the Polish forces will take place during the exercise "Wyzwanie12". Certificatification of FHQ will take place during the exercise "Common Challenge" in Wędrzyn, Poland. Field training will take place in September 2012, in Bergen Germany. Logistics exercise - October 8-12 Garlstedt, Germany.

Some deficiencies were noted regarding water purification, transport and storage of water containers, or strategic lift...
The Weimar group will be on standby for the first semester of 2013. The Nordic group, led by the British, will take over in the second semester.

unor-aor-nc.com/bulletindinforma/news-mili-12-19.pdf
Crow 139 | 8,273
13 Oct 2013 #186
Merged: Ukraine, Serbia invited to join to the Visegrad Combat Group under the command of Poland

There is one very interesting international topic that got my attention since 2011 year. Visegrad Group declared intention to form a `battlegroup` under the command of Poland. Its about The Visegrad Combat Group and it seams to developing into the new military alliance of Europe.

Visegrad: A New European Military Force

Tuesday, May 17, 2011
stratfor.com/weekly/20110516-visegrad-new-european-military-force

On May 12, the Visegrad Group announced the formation of a "battlegroup" under the command of Poland. The battlegroup would be in place by 2016 as an independent force and would not be part of NATO command.

Anyway, many things were said about it in Serbian media. Some says that idea may jeopardize decision of the Serbian parliament about our neutrality on global military alliances. Some others, who supported it since the beginning, underlined that main idea of the Visegrad Combat Group represent independence of the battle-group from NATO. By that, membership to the Visegrad Combat Group wouldn`t violates Serbian military neutrality on global military alliance but that actually Serbia, by joining to the new battlegroup, becoming part of new military alliance in Europe, which isn`t global but regional military force.

Serbia in Visegrad Combat Group - Belgrade slowly moving away from military neutrality

Bojana Anđelić | 16. 03. 2012. / Blic
english.blic.rs/News/8524/Belgrade-slowly-moving-away-from-military-neutrality

The Visegrad Combat Group has not been operational yet. According to plan, with participation of Serbia and Ukraine, countries that have been invited to join, it could start acting about 2016.

Ukraine also has its place in a new alliance. Very interesting development of strategic situation in Europe.

Ukraine invited to participate in battle tactical group of Visegrad Group
legend 3 | 664
13 Oct 2013 #187
If Visegrad would be separate and neutral from EU and NATO that would be fantastic.
TheStranger - | 34
13 Oct 2013 #188
... which means, that Serbia and Ukraine are moving slowly but surely towards the West. It's just a beginning, NATO and EU membership (or other very close relationship) will follow, of course not immidiatly. But it's a matter of time.

It looks like Russia have troubles to attract the easten european countries.
Crow 139 | 8,273
13 Oct 2013 #189
If Visegrad would be separate and neutral from EU and NATO that would be fantastic.

yes. Its even only way for Poland to restore her influence as European or even global power.

... which means, that Serbia and Ukraine are moving slowly but surely towards the West.

Ridiculous. Serbia and Ukraine are West. Western world was born on Balkan and in South-Eastern Europe. Nor Serbia, nor Ukraine needs approval by the EU or NATO to feel Western. Its just happened that geographically western Europe have more money then Eastern Europe currently but, money doesn`t make them core of the West. Core of the West is within the Slavic world.

i assure you, main European money flow would move to the Slavic world

It looks like Russia have troubles to attract the easten european countries.

Eastern European Slavs waits for Poland. If Poland fails, Eastern European Slavs would even fights for Poland. But, if Poland lose to her partners from the west of Europe and miss the chance to take its leading role of Eastern European Slavs, Russia would be only choice left for us who refuse to obey to the Brussels.

But, if it happens, Russia would be modified and actually herself joined into newly formed United Slavic States.

So, time is running out for Poland. What shall Poland become, its up to Poles. Eternal younger partner in globalized soup of EU or leading country of a New Commonwealth. In any case, God and people shall see that Serbians didn`t give up from Poland easily.
Szalawa 3 | 248
19 Feb 2016 #190
Merged: V4 (Visegrad group) and the growing threat to EU (European Union)

Hello everyone, I've been following the news recently and I see paranoia or fear you can say. The fear comes from the point of view of the EU or really just the EU elites as if the V4 is threatening it (as such news titles like "big, bad Visegrad") or calling the V4 "mini-block". As you know the V4 consists of Poland, Slovakia, Czech republic and Hungary. It is not likely to consider expanding but it is growing in influence around the region in particular with its anti-migrant/illegal immigration stance that has caught on with Bulgaria and Macedonia (FYROM). Now I wont keep this a secret, I have been pro-visegrad for years now and I see its growing influence and importance with delight though I understand not everyone takes my point of view. Apparently the Visegrad group has enough influence and leverage to even pressure UK in or out of the EU. The EU can be put in a very real position of disintegration in the not too distant future if things continue to go this way. Be free to find your own articles if you wish to verify any of this.

economist.com/news/europe/21689629-migration-crisis-has-given-unsettling-new-direction-old-alliance-big-bad-visegrad
worldbulletin.net/news/169547/visegrad-group-opposes-uks-eu-deal

Related: polishforums.com/news/poland-visegrad-battle-group-under-command-51558/ merged
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
19 Feb 2016 #191
Apparently the Visegrad group has enough influence and leverage to even pressure UK in or out of the EU.

Dream on. The V4 group is only united at the minute over a single issue. There's too much historical animosity for it to ever be an effective group - Slovakia and Hungary don't get on at all (not least because of the Fidesz Greater Hungary ambitions), the Poles and Czechs don't really see eye to eye on many things and the Slovaks are still very resentful towards the Czechs.
Crow 139 | 8,273
19 Feb 2016 #192
Visegrad Group countries are wise. i would rather with them then with western Europe. Western Europeans are utterly stupid and evil
Szalawa 3 | 248
19 Feb 2016 #193
The V4 group is only united at the minute over a single issue

The Uk leaving the EU is a real possibility (brexit), if they do, the balance it keeps would be disrupted... I'm not sure how long EU can persist without UK in the union, it can very well all fall apart from there. The Visegrad might follow afterwards and before you know it the union is dismantled.

Yes a very big issue that not only effects these four countries in particular but all of Europe. Visegrad aims for these countries to see themselves as partners not rivals, and yes they have been out of touch until recently, but further co-operation in the future is not ruled out...who knows maybe this is the issue needed to unite it?

visegradinsight.eu/the-dire-straits-of-brexit/

Western Europeans are utterly stupid and evil

You are not alone with that feeling Crow, even citizens of these Western countries that are fed up with EU's failed policies agree with you, so not everyone is stupid. They see Visegrad as some sort of savior, Poland is being admired for its resistance.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
19 Feb 2016 #194
The Visegrad might follow afterwards and before you know it the union is dismantled.

And where will the V4 get the money from to sustain their current development? Poland has a new economic plan, which consists of 50% of funds coming from the EU. Visegrad can't replace that.
Crow 139 | 8,273
19 Feb 2016 #195
They see Visegrad as some sort of savior

Poland don`t nee their admiration. Poland just need to use opportunity and escape them now or never.
Szalawa 3 | 248
19 Feb 2016 #196
And where will the V4 get the money from to sustain their current development?

I cant answer that, but there is a common saying "when there's a will there's a way"

Poland don`t nee their admiration.

Having support is not a bad thing. Yes there will be opportunities if the UK proves that leaving the EU is possible. Leaving the EU wont be made easy, even with public support. You will need a well thought out scheme
gregy741 4 | 1,204
19 Feb 2016 #197
I cant answer that, but there is a common saying "when there's a will there's a way"

or,,better to lose money when traveling with wise,than find money when travelling with stupid
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
19 Feb 2016 #198
I cant answer that, but there is a common saying "when there's a will there's a way"

That will is highly unlikely to conjure up half a trillion złoty by themselves.

or,,better to lose money when traveling with wise,than find money when travelling with stupid

Easy for you to say when you don't live in Poland and don't care about that half trillion złoty.
Crow 139 | 8,273
1 Apr 2016 #199
Merged: Should Poland annul its recognition of Kosovo and send call to Serbia to join in Visegrad Group ?

Simple question, different opinions. Will you, please. Thanks in advance
Szalawa 3 | 248
2 Apr 2016 #200
Yes Poland should do exactly that, however I have no control over what happens. But I see there might still be a possibility
whocares
2 Apr 2016 #201
Visegrad needs to expand and further work together (I am not sure which countries would join first though).

Western Europeans are utterly stupid and evil

I am not a fan of Western Europe (in its current form),
but there are Western Europeans who oppose their disgusting leadership and are sick of recent events like mass immigration.
It will be tough to break that leadership there, but if enough people stand up things might change there.
ddt
2 Apr 2016 #202
Kosovo will go back to Serbia sooner or later
Macedonia will go to Bulgaria, Serbia will keep Kosovo or otherwise Europe will get
a ISLAMIC state in the Bolkans, thanks to the stupidity of the West

RUR
delphiandomine 85 | 18,254
2 Apr 2016 #203
a ISLAMIC state in the Bolkans

Nice try, but Albania and Kosovo are so pro-West that it's not even funny. There are American flags all over those two countries!
Crow 139 | 8,273
2 Apr 2016 #204
yes, interesting that we see USA flags all over the regions that are ruled by narco mafia and radical Muslims. Quite interesting.

Kosovo will go back to Serbia sooner or later

absolutely. Only Serbians can restore regional balance of power. Even more and more USA politicians understand this.

Good new for all who follow news in case with Visegrad group countries. Relations between Hungary and Serbia developing in direction as it suits to our own and Polish interests. Hungary and Serbia doing a lot of on terrain, to support idea of Polish president Duda about Intermarium.

Orban: Hungary "won't have anyone blocking Serbia's EU path"

Source: B92, Tanjug Monday, September 5, 2016 | 16:10
b92/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=09&dd=05&nav_id=99110

io

Hungarian PM Orban and Serbian PM Vucic at today`s joint press conference in Belgrade

Fragment from the article:

The Hungarian prime minister then stressed that Hungarian and Serbian security forces will cooperate when it comes to the migrations issue, and that his country was "offering assistance to Serbia."

News update in case with countries of Visegrad Group

Serbia-Hungary relations "better than ever"

Source: Tanjug Friday, September 9, 2016 | 17:02
b92/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=09&dd=09&nav_id=99169

v

Serbian PM Vucic and Hungarian FM Szijjarto, Belgrade

Szijjarto, who was in Belgrade for a China-Hungary-Serbia trilateral meeting on building a rail line from Belgrade to Budapest, was also received earlier in the day by Serbian FM Ivica Dacic, Minister of Economy Goran Knezevic and Minister for European Integration Jadranka Joksimovic.

Hungarian PM Orban welcomed in Belgrade

Source: Tanjug Monday, September 5, 2016 | 11:34
b92/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=09&dd=05&nav_id=99104

v

Serbian PM Vucic and Hungarian PM Orban, Belgrade

The two governments will also hold a joint session by the end of this year, Hungarian and Serbian officials announced last week.

Spot this now... if not for Hungary, there won`t be sane and good news from Visegrad group countries, at the moment.

China, Hungary, Serbia discuss high-speed rail line

Source: Tanjug Monday, September 12, 2016 | 10:14
b92/eng/news/business.php?yyyy=2016&mm=09&dd=12&nav_id=99174

v

China, Hungary and Serbia on Friday held a fifth trilateral meeting on a project to modernize and reconstruct the rail line from Belgrade to Budapest.

Marsupial - | 886
13 Sep 2016 #205
Crow I can't believe some of what you said ages ago is coming true. Great insight.
Crow 139 | 8,273
13 Sep 2016 #206
yes, i saved this forum.

Only Hungary and Serbia can save Poland now. We are vigilant and we work.
Marsupial - | 886
14 Sep 2016 #207
I doubt it crow you go too far. I am observing that there were several components to current development which you had right.
Crow 139 | 8,273
15 Sep 2016 #208
News update... Serbia securing close contacts between Visegrad and Craiova Groups (Serbia is already member of Craiova Group and represent only country that also negotiate with Visegrad Group for membership). Important to secure new Commonwealth, when comes the time

Serbian, Hungarian, Bulgarian PMs in trilateral meeting

Source: B92 Wednesday, September 14, 2016 | 09:30
b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=09&dd=14&nav_id=99199

According to the same source, the prime ministers spoke about "energy cooperation, situation in the region, and the migrant crisis."

News update from Visegrad countries... Slovakia ignore EU when it comes to Kosovo, respect Serbia`s sovereignty

article

Slovaks ignore "state of Kosovo," respect UNSCR 1244
Source: Vecernje novosti Tuesday, September 20, 2016 | 12:37
b92/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=09&dd=20&nav_id=99255

He has been lobbying since yesterday to have Kosovo presented in line with the Brussels agreement, however, that request has not been accepted, for which reason he walked out of the conference. The hosts assigned no importance to this; instead, the meeting immediately resumed as if nothing had happened,"

Braking NEWS >>> we are little bit closer to New Commonwealth (Intermarium) >>>

Central Europeans form "alliance for defense" - Orban

Source: Tanjug Monday, September 26, 2016 | 10:23
b92/eng/news/region.php?yyyy=2016&mm=09&dd=26&nav_id=99300

o

Leaders of Central European countries have formed "an alliance for the defense of their states and their way of life,".............. "It is now clear that we were right," said Orban, ......

Previously >>>Two Visegrad Group countries (Hungary and Slovakia) already sent their police to aid Serbian police due to refugee crisis. Defense of Central Europe begins in Serbia >>>

Slovak police to be deployed on Serbia's eastern border

Source: Tanjug Monday, September 26, 2016 | 10:23
b92/eng/news/region.php?yyyy=2016&mm=09&dd=26&nav_id=99300

Serbia and Slovakia will establish joint police patrols on the Serbia's eastern border with Bulgarian border.

So, its just the matter of time when would Poland abandon NATO. i think that now nobody sane believe in Poland`s ``eternal`` obligation to that alliance.

News update

Visegrad group's 'flexible solidarity' idea gains traction in EU

26.09.2016
thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/272571,Visegrad-group%E2%80%99s-flexible-solidarity-proposal-gains-traction-in-EU

It generally stipulates that the member states themselves - based on their potential and experience - would decide how they participate in the EU's migration policy and in solving the refugee crisis, and that participation in refugee distribution programs should be voluntary.

Visegrad Group of EU states 'could veto Brexit deal'
17 September 2016
bbc.com/news/world-europe-37396805

s

A group of Central European EU members known as the Visegrad Four is ready to veto any Brexit deal that would limit people's right to work in the UK, Slovakian PM Robert Fico says.

Crow 139 | 8,273
21 Oct 2016 #209
News update from Visegrad countries... all Visegrad Group counties now have its police on Serbian southern border, due to migrant crisis. Also, Polish-Serbian business cooperation increases. Poland see Serbia as key regional partner.

yesterday

Encouraging cooperation of Serbian, Polish businessmen
Serbian government web site > srbija.gov.rs/vesti/vest.php?id=118988

Prime Minister Vucic thanked Arendarski, who has been at the head of the Polish Chamber of Commerce since its establishment in 1990, for the contribution to broadening and strengthening the economic cooperation between the two countries.

previously

Polish Foreign Minister Witold Waszczykowski visits
Polish government web site > mfa.gov.pl/en/news/minister_witold_waszczykowski_in_the_republic_of_serbia

"Current security challenges call for joint action on such issues as international terrorism and the consequences of the migrant crisis. We support Serbia's efforts to solve the migrant crisis, notably by deploying a Polish Police and Border Guard mission to the region," said Minister Waszczykowski.

He underscored that Serbia is Poland's chief economic partner in the Western Balkan region, as trade between our countries has more than doubled over the last four years

And about time. Poland moved to more openly and more frequent to speak about relations with Serbia. Its very important, considering that two countries/peoples represented the backbone of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
Crow 139 | 8,273
1 Nov 2016 #210
News update

Austrians wants closer ties with Visegrad Group and Serbia.

Austrian right-wing candidate hopes to get Serb votes
b92/eng/news/world.php?yyyy=2016&mm=11&dd=01&nav_id=99559

a

"It is not unknown," writes the Belgrade-based newspaper Danas, "that Austrian Freedom Party (FPO) stands for the so-called Serb cause."

Heinz Christian Strache, meanwhile, puts his faith in Serbs when it comes to fighting Islamization, the daily said.

"What we as a party support is a Europe on the foundations of Christianity.

to improve and deepen relations with countries like Serbia .......... also those from the Visegrad Group - "because Europe doesn't have to do only what Merkel says it should."


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