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Poland under pressure of EU to accept more asylum seeking refugees

wjtk Activity: - / 53
Joined: 29 Nov 2008 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #91

If you went to pretty much any town in Polska B in 2006 to 2008-ish, you would have been forgiven for thinking that there had been a war: there were virtually no men to be seen there between the ages of 18 and 30, because so many of them had gone to the UK. Why would you expect immigrants from other places to be any different?

HA, so you do admit that they are economic immigrants, not refugees running from armed conflict? In that case all that stories about helping poor souls running from war, which will die if we don't help them are scam?

The EU isn't a cafeteria, Poland doesn't get to pick and choose to only take the bits it thinks are good.

Legal procedure says that we can refuse EC proposal regarding immigration and we are using our right to do so.

I don't know in what world you are lviing in but this is actually how this world works - we milk from others as much as we can while we protect ourself as much as we can.

Do you think that Germany is in the EU because they are so kind to others? Nope, they are export-based economy and EU is perfect organisation for them, so they agree to pay something to others so they could earn even more.

Harry Activity: 65 / 13,457
Joined: 2 May 2007 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #92

so you do admit that they are economic immigrants

Care to quote me saying that they are economic immigrants?

Of course I'll be waiting as long for you to quote me saying that as I will be waiting for the banned Levi to explain which Polish law those people have broken.
wjtk Activity: - / 53
Joined: 29 Nov 2008 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #93

So why did you compare refugees running from armed conflict with Polish economic immigrants? In case of Poles it's natural that men left because they can earn more AND their family is safe in Poland. In case of refugees women and children shall be first to ship out of area of conflict, not young, healthy males. What kind of a men leave his family behind during a war (unless he is a soldier who will keep fighting with agressor).

What's my point? I don't think male african immigrants (who are majority) are leaving their families behind in a warzone because they aren't running from armed conflict. They are economic immigrants, just like Poles, hence you can spare me stories about poor people calling for help.
Dougpol1 Activity: 19 / 1,596
Joined: 26 Jan 2014 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #94

for the banned Levi

That's bad news - why has Levi been banned? I really enjoyed reading his posts entitled "Superior me."

They are economic immigrants, just like Poles, hence you can spare me stories about poor people calling for help.

I refer to Polish refugees in time of partition and two World Wars wtk. Is there a smiley for raised eyebrows?

Or have you conveniently forgotten how Britain and the rest of the free world went to war for your country?

Clueless.
Harry Activity: 65 / 13,457
Joined: 2 May 2007 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #95

So why did you compare refugees running from armed conflict with Polish economic immigrants?

They are all immigrants.

That's bad news - why has Levi been banned? I really enjoyed reading his posts entitled "Superior me."

Don't worry, he was banned as "Levi BR" and immediately came back as "Levi".
wjtk Activity: - / 53
Joined: 29 Nov 2008 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #96

I refer to Polish refugees in time of partition and two World Wars wtk. Is there a smiley for raised eyebrows?

Most of Polish refugees during WW2 left Poland to continue to fight and cut their way back to Poland. Their dedication helped to save many British/French and US lifes.

There is no "=" sign between that and current situation.

Or have you conveniently forgotten how Britain and the rest of the free world went to war for your country?

Rest of the world didn't lift a finger when Poland was attacked in 1939 and rest of the world sold Poland to stalin in 1945 without second thoughts and now you dare to say that world went to war for Poland? You've got to be shameless to say such things.

They are all immigrants.

Exactly, so stop selling me stories about them running from armed conflict.
Polsyr Activity: 6 / 907
Joined: 19 Sep 2011 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #97

@wjtk you have presented a couple of valid concerns; which bother me as well.

1. How can one be sure that there are no terrorists or people that have committed crimes against humanity amongst potential refugees? I mean European intelligence services may conducts their investigations but nothing can eliminate the risk 100%?

However, having said that, a terrorist that has been documented and fingerprinted is somewhat easier to watch than a terrorist that is physically present but not entered into any system (meaning entered illegally and never presented themselves to authorities). Yet both of these categories are easier to watch than online terrorists that recruit through the internet and brainwash young people into committing acts of terrorism. I am not saying that it is acceptable to have terrorists physically present in Europe. I am just comparing potential threat levels. Finally all threats are threats. Keep in mind, it is impossible to eliminate all threats and the best we can do is reduce them. Terrorists are not born, they are created. I am not saying that it is Europe's fault, but it is affecting Europe. I don't have a magic solution for this problem and I don't think anyone else does, other than big talk.

2. Today 1000. How we know what will the numbers be tomorrow? And would Europe opening the doors today to some encourage others to take the risky journey to Europe? Today nobody knows how many refugees the conflicts or other circumstance going on will create in the future.

What I know from having contacts in countries such as Syria is that people are only getting on these boats out of pure desperation. They are hoping that once they settle somewhere they can send for their families to join them. These people are not arbitrarily taking the risk in the search of a free lunch. Syrians that are seeking economic immigration don't come to Europe, they go to the GCC instead where they know from vast experience there is a much higher money making potential. Syrians that come to Europe are seeking security. I cannot comment about migrants from other countries because I don't know enough about their circumstances, but I know about Syrians in particular because I volunteer with NGOs that are helping in Syria.

If the Polish gov decides to take on some refugees, I think we need to make an effort to integrate them into society, teach them Polish and get them familiarized with the Polish way of life. Otherwise they will isolate themselves in little islands and all sorts of problems can happen. On the other hand if the Polish gov decides NOT to take any, then I guess you have nothing to worry about?
Dougpol1 Activity: 19 / 1,596
Joined: 26 Jan 2014 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #98

You've got to be shameless to say such things.

We will agree to disagree. But the damning vote of the foreigners on this board is that the Polish establishment consistently takes, and refuses to give.

In another time, that would earn the term of "international pariah."

Here to help.
Harry Activity: 65 / 13,457
Joined: 2 May 2007 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #99

Most of Polish refugees during WW2 left Poland to continue to fight and cut their way back to Poland.

And then they mostly didn't go back to Poland after WWII. Instead they stayed in the UK (or went to Commonwealth countries) and were given everything they needed, housing, jobs, the lot, plus the chance to have their families brought to the UK free of charge.

Rest of the world didn't lift a finger when Poland was attacked in 1939 and rest of the world sold Poland to stalin in 1945

The reality is that British men started dying on 4 September, i.e. the day after war was declared, but those men were bombing Germany and we know how much some Poles like to claim those bombing raids never took place. As for selling Poland to Stalin, what price was paid and what would you like the UK to have done to have removed the Red Army from Poland? Funny how the same Poles like to claim the bombing raids of 4 August never took place never answer those questions.

Exactly, so stop selling me stories about them running from armed conflict.

All refugees are immigrants (apart from those refugees who remain in their country, those are migrants).
gregy741 Activity: 4 / 1,333
Joined: 3 Dec 2009 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #100

And then they mostly didn't go back to Poland after WWII. Instead they stayed in the UK (or went to Commonwealth countries) and were given everything they needed, housing, jobs, the lot, plus the chance to have their families brought to the UK free of charge.

thats bollocks.even generals were refused any social help from goverment. example- gen. Maczek who was put to live in container and forced to work a dish washing job in local pub.

not to mention ,they stayed in the uk cus there was no coming back to Poland due to fear of being prosecuted.
good you brought this example,that even polish generals who fought among British didnt get any social money compare to what those africans gonna get and they demand to get.if you dont give them homes and free money they will sue countries..
TheOther Activity: 5 / 2,941
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #101

Interestingly the EU was a Nazi idea, and look who is in charge now!

The EU is an organization built on the European Coal and Steel Community. The latter was proposed by French foreign minister Robert Schuman to prevent another war between France and Germany. The idea worked, it seems. Someone has to be the leading power in Europe (much like the US is on a global scale), and there are two main reasons why it's Germany these days: economic power and population size.
Gosc123456  
19 Jun 2015  #102

Yes, the "EU" started in 1957 among 6 countries around Germany and France and was at the time concerned with coal and steel. It should have remained this way instead of becoming a circus like nowadays with too many countries completely different from each other and not getting along. However, no one forces any one to join and/or stay so Poland does not have to be a member if Poland does not want to "obey" the community.

The EU is not a supermarket, when joining, countries have to take the whole deal and it goes for Poland too....
Kamaz  
19 Jun 2015  #103

Everyone seems to forget the Polish MSOs who did valuable service in BAOR for the British Army....I served with some of them and they seemed like good blokes. (I used to have to go see them to borrow military buses, of which they were in charge). Click on 318MT it is old stuff about some of them, They also almost exclusively were charged with the driving of the Mighty Antar Tank Transporter in peacetime, I do not know what their role would have been should WW3 have broken out. wiki also gives some info, but they were definitely still there in considerable numbers in the late 1980,s. They wore British Army uniforms - DPM camo combats and Lt Wt trousers etc.....but their rank insignia was Polish...and they saluted their officers with the Polish salute and British Officers with the British saluting style. Good guys all round......I think they lost their Polish nationality during communist times, because they worked for the British....many settled in Germany.

Please note: I am not calling them immigrants or emigrants......lets just say they were put in extraordinary circumstances by the politics of their time......let us not sweep them under the carpet.....Good Guys.
Harry Activity: 65 / 13,457
Joined: 2 May 2007 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #104

thats bollocks.even generals were refused any social help from goverment.

Feel most welcome to educate yourself about the history of Polish people in the country you choose to live in: polishresettlementcampsintheuk.co.uk/

Hopefully a few decades from now people in Poland will look back fondly on the refugee camps that they and their parents lived at the expense of the Polish state when they first settled in Poland, just as some people in the UK look back fondly on the refugee camps that they and their parents lived at the expense of the British state when they first settled in the UK.
gregy741 Activity: 4 / 1,333
Joined: 3 Dec 2009 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #105

Feel most welcome to educate yourself about the history of Polish people in the country you choose to live in

feel free to educate urself about ungrateful British people.:

"As he was not considered by the British to be an Allied soldier, he was denied combatant rights and refused a military pension.[7] As a result, until the 1960s he was forced to do menial work [8] as a bartender at an Edinburgh hotel."

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Stanis%C5%82aw_Maczek
and he was war hero,commander of polish forces in the west.
polish soldiers who were forced to stay in the UK were treated like criminals.refused to attend victory parade after war 2
Shaman  
19 Jun 2015  #106

GOSC: The EU is not a supermarket, when joining, countries have to take the whole deal and it goes for Poland too....
Actually it is as shown for example by UK still having border control. There are multiple asterisks in different rules.So you can stop that crap that everyone in EU are subjects to the same rules.

As to the immigrants...that's a though question. I'm all pro Poland taking share in all that however I read somewhere that quite many of them don't want to go to Poland. Mostly due to the fact that they would get more in other countries. So I really wonder how it will work out.
gregy741 Activity: 4 / 1,333
Joined: 3 Dec 2009 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #107

Harry...NOT A SINGLE OF THOSE AFRICANS ,WOULD ACCEPT LIVING IN CONDITIONS ,MACZEK, WAS FORCED TO LIVE AFTER WAR.
THEY WOULD SCREAM ABOUT HUMAN RIGHT ABUSE AND SUCH.
Varsovian Activity: 94 / 641
Joined: 23 Nov 2006 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #108

Poland has massively increased the number of work visas issued to Ukrainians. In 2014: 331,000 - up 50% in a year. That's pretty major immigration.
TheOther Activity: 5 / 2,941
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #109

That's pretty major immigration.

Do the Ukrainians stay in Poland or do they move west afterwards?
JollyRomek Activity: 7 / 726
Joined: 6 Nov 2014 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #110

The EU is not a supermarket, when joining, countries have to take the whole deal and it goes for Poland too....
Actually it is as shown for example by UK still having border control.

The EU and border controls of EU member states are two different things. The EU does not regulate border controls of it's member states. The Schengen agreement does. Not all members of the EU are full members of Schengen and some non-EU countries are full members of Schengen.

In case of the UK, the reason why the UK is not a full member of Schengen has nothing to do with it's EU policy but with the free-travel zone they have in place with the Republic of Ireland. That agreement prevents both, the UK and Ireland, to become full members of Schengen.
Varsovian Activity: 94 / 641
Joined: 23 Nov 2006 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #111

Russian speakers are much more in evidence now than they used to be. The kids are showing up in school too. So, at least some of them are staying.
JollyRomek Activity: 7 / 726
Joined: 6 Nov 2014 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #112

are staying.

Do you see this as a positive or negative development?
Polsyr Activity: 6 / 907
Joined: 19 Sep 2011 ♂
 
19 Jun 2015  #113

There is talk back in Brussels that Poland will agree to accept the quota system for asylum seekers against reassurances that other EU countries (especially Germany) will not soften their stand (sanctions) against Russia. Conclusion: the asylum seekers are coming.
blah  
20 Jun 2015  #114

Well, almost nobody in EU support asylum seekers quota. Biggest opponent of such actions are France and Hungary. Hungary already have big problem with Serbian and Albanian immigration. Also keep in mind, that immigration problem doesn't come from single direction of Africa. More immigrants from Belarus, Russia and Ukraine are about to come in not too distant future.
Vox Activity: - / 206
Joined: 4 Feb 2015 ♂
 
20 Jun 2015  #115

I can see that many posters instead of talking about practicalities and pros and cons of forcing onto Poland or any other European country African refugees in their droves, take ideological stance on the issue, very unrealistic, vague, dogmatic and harmful in the long run for all parties involved, but it was only to be expected as those modern neo-Marxist don't care about people.
Polsyr Activity: 6 / 907
Joined: 19 Sep 2011 ♂
 
20 Jun 2015  #116

Biggest opponent of such actions are France and Hungary

France is a big supporter actually, while Hungary is an opponent, but the most significant opponent so far as been Poland.
blah  
20 Jun 2015  #117

@Polsyr, you have outdated informations:
news.yahoo.com/central-european-states-against-migrant-quotas-slovak-pm-132838977--business.html
aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/france-hollande-opposes-eu-migrants-quotas-150619170341021.html
Dougpol1 Activity: 19 / 1,596
Joined: 26 Jan 2014 ♂
 
20 Jun 2015  #118

Feel most welcome to educate yourself about the history of Polish people in the country you choose to live in

Exactly Harry. The reading of those passenger lists makes fascinating reading, I am scratching my head as to why Cameron and the rest don't seem to understand or are unwilling to admit that the huge majority of these refugees in Italy are fleeing from war too.
Polsyr Activity: 6 / 907
Joined: 19 Sep 2011 ♂
 
20 Jun 2015  #119

you have outdated informations:

You are right - I really don't know why I thought France was for. They want to dump the problem on Italy and Germany. When most of the migrants were French speakers and seeking refuge in France (such as when the Tunisian revolution happened in 2011) they probably would have been for a quota. Everyone is obviously trying to throw this on someone else. Anyway, finally when the boss (Pani Merkel) shows them the red eye... Let's just say the boss is the boss and that is that.
Dougpol1 Activity: 19 / 1,596
Joined: 26 Jan 2014 ♂
 
21 Jun 2015  #120

There is talk back in Brussels that Poland will agree to accept the quota system for asylum seekers against reassurances that other EU countries (especially Germany) will not soften their stand (sanctions) against Russia. Conclusion: the asylum seekers are coming.

Excellent news - though the Polonia seem to be against it. Terrible censorship and you should be ashamed.




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Poland under pressure of EU to accept more asylum seeking refugees
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