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Will Poland tighten border control with Germany?

Rich Mazur 4 | 3,934
1 Dec 2019 #31
But it is international law.

BS. The law says that a person loses the right to continue moving as a refugee the second he steps into the FIRST safe country. Under that law, he is not allowed to country shop for the best benefits and must remain where he is - in the FIRST safe country.

That is why El Salvador "refugees" climbing over the fence from Mexico are pure bullsh*it and should never be allowed into the US.
That was just an example.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,815
1 Dec 2019 #32
Do you want to be selective with which laws you apply?

Migrants have to be dealt with at the port of arrival , so this has nothing to do with this thread as migrants don't land boats in Poland, we are talking about illegal transit and criminals here, foreign illegal migrants should be returned to point of arrival within the EU to be processed as the law requires.
Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
1 Dec 2019 #33
us loyal Poles

The "loyal" Poles - who despised and exploited their fellow Poles who were lucky enough to get short term visas in communist times, you mean? Yes - I knew some of them...

There was one Polish lady though - in the news - settled in the Uk after the war, who took in such people, fed them, and supported them on her own accord, and who fought the British Home Office and their scum gang every step of the way, on her wards' behalf. I can't remember her name. She must be dead now, but deserves Polish recognition

foreign illegal migrants

Read the Human Rights law. They are not "illegal immigrants" under that statute until proved to be so.

the FIRST safe country.

Yes. But try telling the Italians that. It's a long way from America. Not your problem. By an accident of birth. Until we have peace in Northern Africa, the migrants will keep coming. We should have let Gaddafi and the rest be.
mafketis 23 | 8,179
1 Dec 2019 #34
. When boats of refugees

People claiming to be refugees, most had no legtimiate claim.

refugees have to be processed

then don't let them have the run of the place while they're being processed... there was a German article not long ago that many, once refused asylum in Germany just go to another country and try there (or spell their name a bit differently a go somewhere else in Germany).

How is that sustainable?

the 1951 convention was written for a different reality and needs to be drastically updated. Not to mention the fact that the current law give aid and succor to the worst kinds of human traffickers. Why is the EU so determined to keep the human trafficking rings up and running?
Dougpol1 32 | 3,296
1 Dec 2019 #35
People claiming to be refugees, most had no legtimiate claim.

Statistics? Actually, I haven't seen any....
Lyzko 25 | 7,145
1 Dec 2019 #36
As Tacitus aptly noted, the question more precisely put ought to be whether Germany should tighten border control with Poland.
Since all of Europe is ever more on edge these past several years at least, I can't see how both sides won't be able to achieve parity here. Safety's simply a no-brainer!
TheOther 6 | 3,821
1 Dec 2019 #37
Berlin wall was build to keep people in

That's not how the East German government sold it to their people. It was called the "Antifaschistischer Friedenswall" (the anti-fascist wall of freedom). Cool name. How should we call the future Polish wall?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,545
1 Dec 2019 #38
Maybe that "no borders" thing is really not working....

Germany has lost total control about who is coming and going (and staying)! I start to doubt that concept too. Just to be faster at your next holiday destination can't be many drawbacks for that.

But when I think about it I don't have the polish-german border in mind first actually!
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,545
2 Dec 2019 #39
There is still the idea of the European Union....a sum of all of us...but bigger....better.....stronger! A real, equal, respected player on the world stage! Not just a lot of insignificant tiny and middle sized beggars and bootlickers of the mighty and powerful!

Tell me when you are ready to build walls between the US states too keep lowlifes from other states out....more secure for sure, but also effectively killing the "United" in the US, destroying it's "greatness"!

I'm not there yet....but I acknowledge the problem.
Tacitus 2 | 1,110
2 Dec 2019 #40
. Just to be faster at your next holiday destination can't be many drawbacks for that.

The economic aspect is more important. Time is money, especially in well-integrated economies that depend on supply-in-demand logistics. Introducing border checks e.g. at Austria would cost us bns of Euros each year. And in the context of this thread, it would not doubt hurt Poland a lot, considering its huge logistic economy. Imagine all the trucks from Poland having to pass a border post before they enter.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,545
2 Dec 2019 #41
Tighten the outer borders....go with a comb through the EU states to weed out all those who don't belong here, who shouldn't be here, the illegals and the foreign criminals.

I like the idea of a "Festung Europa"...with hotspots outside to regulate and steer wanted and needed immigration, clearing up the asylum status of refugees BEFORE they are coming here.

That means putting alot of money and personal into a common EU military, a common EU police force and a common EU immigration agency and also looking for non-european countries willing and able to work with our hotspots, lending us territory and personal, rewarding them with EU contracts/support funds and cutting our money for those who don't...that's where I would start.

The economic aspect is more important.

That's what I believed for a long time too...that argument worked also especially well in Germany as we just had a very long economically good time....but that isn't the case for other EU countries and won't be true for Germany either as the wind blows rougher now...

Now the questions will get louder if open borders are still such a good thing when the economical situation keeps getting worse. When at the same time the criminal abuse of the lack of border control is rising...

Imagine all the trucks from Poland having to pass a border post before they enter.

Agreed! That's why I don't see a wall between Germany and Poland any time soon....and the immigrants aren't exactly moving the polish way! No wall needed...
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,934
2 Dec 2019 #42
Imagine all the trucks from Poland having to pass a border post before they enter.

Deflection and strawman.
Nobody is talking about trucks or even people as long as those people are the EU legal residents. We are talking about the invasion by the foreign scum from Asia, ME, and Africa. It's stoppable, but, just like here in the US, your rulers benefit from it and you at the bottom have no balls to even object to it out of fear of being called NAZI's, xenophobes, heatless and all that crap.
cms neuf - | 1,474
2 Dec 2019 #43
Could be because we are afraid of being called Nazis or could be because living here we observe the massive economic benefits of the open borders. Difficult to perceive from Russia where you love your queues and bits of paper that provide steady income for overdressed bureaucrats.

The other 27 countires can observe in real time the UKs success when it reintroduces birder checks after Brexit, then we can decide if it's a good idea.
mafketis 23 | 8,179
2 Dec 2019 #44
could be because living here we observe the massive economic benefits of the open borders

Internal Schengen borders, but open external borders are a nightmare... (see 2015...) especially if a country is very incompetent when it comes to deporting people that need to be deported (lookin' at you Deutschland).

Again, you can have no borders inside and strong borders outside or you can have weak borders outside but then you need stronger borders inside.
2 Dec 2019 #45
We as in Europeans didn't really mess up much with the Arab Spring. Wasn't it the US that influenced it, only it to cause mass panic and flight from the region to Europe when Merkel invited them.

Anyway, I think it's a reall pure luck that Poland borders the less-desirable ex DDR that has less migrants as they prefer the richer ex Western Germany. Berlin's the only exception. I bet Czechs must be more concerned bordering the wealthy Bavaria as well. Nevertheless, I think it's good to try to make Eastern Poland (eastwards from the imainary Trojmiasto-Krakow line) more powerful and not develop the Western parts like Szczecin, Poznan and Wroclaw too much... I lived in Bratislava and while it's still Slavic, lots of migrants living in Wien go shopping there. Sometimes I like it that ex commie countries are less accepting as they won't be easily displaced. I just hope it doesn't turn into disliking fellow EU/Slavic nations as well as they can be more easily integrated. I bet Saudi Arabia prefers Muslims to Christian migrants, I don't see how Poles prefering Christian migrants is worse than that. And Japan and China are always excused anyway as "it's their culture/rules, deal with it!".

Btw how are Belorussians doing in Poland, are they less crime-prone than Ukrainians? I just now read this, I think Poland needs to accept less Ukrainians as well.

From Reddit, I can't believe Ukraine has a higher homicide rate than the USA:

Are Ukranians Poland's version of the illegal alien mexicans in America? Low class trashy group of people for the most part?

Homicide rate of Poland = 0.80
Homicide rate of Ukraine = 6.20

= 7.75 times greater murder rate in Ukraine

Homicide rate of USA = 5.30
Homicide rate of Mexico = 24.80
4.67 times greater murder rate in Mexico
So yes, Ukranians are the Mexicans of Poland. Low-skill labor imported by the poltical elite due to corporate lobbying, with a higher propensity for criminal activity relative to the native population.

Edit: Belarus' homicide rate is 3.6, which while higher than Polish is much better than Ukrainian and lower than US one. I would think it's better to accept more Bielorussians and less Ukrainians (well maybe do an exception for female ones as those criminals are 99% male).

This is a projection, but does Poland have some sea guard police or something? It seems you might need it in the future lol:
And let's get back to the present:
mafketis 23 | 8,179
2 Dec 2019 #46
Ukranians are the Mexicans of Poland.

Poland and Ukraine are far closer culturally and linguistically than the US and Mexico. Some Ukrainian men look a bit rougher than average Polish guys but about 99% of the time you can't tell they're Ukrainian until they open their mouths... so not that equivalent to Mexicans in the US.

Also there's not much of a welfare social safety net in Poland so those coming over are almost all doing so to work legitimately. The country seems to be genuinely turning from the Soviet past and I remain hopeful about its future. The biggest problem is corruption at all levels of society but that takes generations to address and not just a few years.

As for crime, I think the situation is probably similar to post USSR people in Poland in the early 1990s, as long as the crime stayed inside the foreigners' group the police took a hands off attitude and only cracked down if they started victimizing citizens.
cms neuf - | 1,474
2 Dec 2019 #47
Not in Poland - the economic benefits of open borders have benefited all sections of society and disposable incomes have tripled for working class Poles since 2004.

Not that you would know about that, never having set foot here.

A sure sign of idiocy in immigration and borders debates is comparing a complex problem to the locks in your own house on some crappy Moscow commie estate where there is nothing worth stealing apart from yesterday's half finished bottle of vodka and some Moldovan champagne,
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,934
2 Dec 2019 #48
Poland's problem is just like with the rest of the white countries and is contained in this number: 1.4

If you are curious what it means, "klyknij" this:

and compare that 1.4 to 2.1 - the replacement rate.

That is why Poland needs foreigners, and not because they make Poland better. Without them, that ship just will not sail.

Add to that already scary 1.4 the fact that Poles leave in large numbers looking for better jobs, and the picture is dismal.
cms neuf - | 1,474
2 Dec 2019 #49
It is a problem and one which piS are trying to address and the first step is to keep a strong economy by having reasons to stay in Poland - hence the need for open borders to support our growing exports to the EU

You are unlikely to be contributing to the fertility rate any time soon - difficult to meet a nice girl when you spend every night in the basement ranting about Muslims.
kondzior 10 | 1,004
2 Dec 2019 #50
If rats and cockroaches begin to infest your house, do you repair the holes and leave the vermin that already infiltrated your house unattended?
Lyzko 25 | 7,145
2 Dec 2019 #51
Ahem, we're talking about human beings here, regardless of how abject their living conditions and/or upbringing!
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,934
2 Dec 2019 #52
If rats and cockroaches begin to infest your house,

You just insulted rats and cockroaches.
Rats and cockroaches don't murder, rape, rob, demand, and drag you through courts when you try to make them leave.
Lyzko 25 | 7,145
2 Dec 2019 #53
Oh, no?
How about termites as well as other pests! They can cost you a court battle like you wouldn't believe.
Murder? Guess you never encountered a starving rat. Rob? They can rob you of your safety as well as your sanity.
Plus, they're an equal opportunity predator; they attack everybody the same:-)
kondzior 10 | 1,004
3 Dec 2019 #54
Ahem, we're talking about human beings here, regardless of how abject their living conditions and/or upbringing!

They are. But it doesn't mean that everything they do on our territory is automatically justified, or above criticism. You are, truthfully speaking, a repressive fascist which vilifies native citizens, when they stand up to defend their freedom and way of life.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,934
3 Dec 2019 #55
But it doesn't mean that everything they do on our territory is automatically justified, or above criticism

Exactly. The open borders leftists here don't like my country vs home analogy because it hits home. None of them would tolerate an invasion and feed and educate the intruders for a minute. Instead, these virtue signalling idiots would call the cops and demand that their uninvited guests be removed immediately - without hearings and by force if necessary.
cms neuf - | 1,474
3 Dec 2019 #56
Why do you assume that we are all leftists ? maybe respect for refugees comes from the way our own Polish families were treated well in Britain and in the US and even in Syria and Persia when they were fleeing from drunk murdering Russians who invaded Poland without provocation.
mafketis 23 | 8,179
3 Dec 2019 #57
Don't look now, but kids with 'migration backgrounds' are dragging down Germany's Pisa scores... human beings are not interchangeable widgets that can be moved around with no consequence. And Germany won't be able to maintain its current economy if the percentage of migrants drastically increases....
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,934
3 Dec 2019 #58
Poles were running for their lives. Today, "refugee" are running for a better welfare check. Duh!
Poles left Iran. Today's "refugees" will never, ever leave the white leftist moron countries like Germany and the UK.
Instead, like cancer and rabbits, they will out-multiply the naive natives. Remember 1.7 and 3.4. In Poland, it's even worse. It's 1.4.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,594
3 Dec 2019 #59
Difference is though Poland isn't a cucked country like the western euro nations. Poles would never allow a deluge of millions of turd worlders within the span of a few years and give them food, housing, cash, medical care - basically everything for the rest of their lives. The majority of rapefugees are unemployed in Germany and a German university study stated that the majority will remain unemployed even after 10 years of living in the country. It's the same thing in France, UK, and other countries. Notice even the majority of the radicals they arrest in UK are unemployed and on benefits. At best, they work cash jobs at some kebab stand or store which contribute next to nothing and any european can also do. Well no **** when you give these people more money and nicer apartments than they'd ever have back in their sand box pretending to be country what do you expect? And some countries even go full cuck allowing sharia courts and having thought crime cops arresting people that disagree with replacement migration.

Sweden even recently gave a guy 2 homes in a resort town worth over a million euro since he had several wives and some 16 kids. That would never happen in Poland.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,934
3 Dec 2019 #60
Dirk, don't leave. Please share the joy of talking to a wall.
My only hope is not that we will convert them. It's that they will post fewer full-moron opinions.

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