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Throwing away the constitution in Poland?


Harry
11 Dec 2015 #331
Beata Kempa, chief of the Prime Minister's Chancellery, decided that the last* ruling of TK (Constitutional Court) is invalid and won't be published in Dziennik Ustaw.

Excellent news. I didn't think that even PIS could be that stupid, but yet again they prove themselves to be more moronic than one could imagine.
Legal Eagle
11 Dec 2015 #332
Kempa said that the ruling was invalid because only 5 judges were present.

So these foreigners are protesting the duly elected President and the Sejm's refusal to bow to the opinion of five political judges on a court of 15. The court lacked a quorum. This minority opinion is just a political farce from a handful of political hacks who should be impeached and removed from office. This is a political farce, and a bad one at that.

Trying to claim that a document that was used for 4 years since 966 is not really proof that Poland has any interest in your American traditions.

Simply delusional.
jon357 63 | 15,214
11 Dec 2015 #333
I didn't think that even PIS could be that stupid, but yet again they prove themselves to be more moronic than one could imagine.

They actually are that stupid but as usual damage has been averted. By constitutional means of course.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
11 Dec 2015 #334
LE. Most people protesting tomorrow will be Poles. Don't you understand that? I know. Wait till Sunday and then look on Wiki.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
11 Dec 2015 #335
The court lacked a quorum.

No such requirement in Polish law. You're clearly not very familiar with Polish law, so why are you posting such incorrect information?

Go away, read the law and come back. You might learn something.

Most people protesting tomorrow will be Poles.

Not most, virtually everyone will be.
Legal Eagle
11 Dec 2015 #336
There is no need to heed the opinion of a minority judicial opinion. Not even the court itself issues opinions democratically. It is a farce and a sham.

Only the delusional would believe differently.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
11 Dec 2015 #337
There is no need to heed the opinion of a minority judicial opinion.

There is every need. I know you've got real problems with Polish law and that you're struggling to comprehend it, but the law is very very clear.

What you're suggesting is the kind of behaviour found in the PRL, and isn't welcome in democratic, free Poland.

Only the delusional would believe differently.

Only the person that's never lived in Poland and has no connection to Poland would believe that the Polish Constitution can be treated like a piece of trash.
jon357 63 | 15,214
11 Dec 2015 #338
Not most, virtually everyone will be

Yes - those protesting to defend the constitution tomorrow will almost all be Polish citizens.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
11 Dec 2015 #339
Indeed. It's a typical PiS conspiracy theory to believe otherwise.
Harry
11 Dec 2015 #340
There is no need to heed the opinion of a minority judicial opinion.

There is when the Polish constitution says there is. Unless one is a junior high student in the USA.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
11 Dec 2015 #341
almost all

So you're saying the Brit Bullies are the only exception. Oh well, maybe when they learn to speak Polish by 2030 things will change. By then Poland will have been flourishing after 15 solid years of wise, prudent and farsighted PiS governance.
kondzior 10 | 1,019
11 Dec 2015 #342
Constitutional Court

Isn't this the same court that said that one can be arrested for calling the prime minister a "moron"? Well, at least when it's the prime minister that the court likes?

wyborcza.pl/1,75478,18865143,trybunal-konstytucyjny-grzywna-za-skandowanie-donald-matole.html?disableRedirects=true

Meaning, under the previous goverment some football fans were fined for calling the prime minister "moron". The constitutonal court ruled that it's A-OK and one can even be arrested for "disrespecting constitutional organs". And nobody was crying about the end of democracy, dictatorship or anything. So the milk has been already spilled. No need to be afraid of any "far-right" since the "moderates" are no better...
jon357 63 | 15,214
11 Dec 2015 #343
15 solid years

PiS

You're probably the only person in Poland who thinks that. From the appalling start they've made, 15 months is an optimistic guess.
Ironside 49 | 10,282
11 Dec 2015 #344
According to the latest poll by TNS Polska:
PiS is being supported by 42% ; PO 17% ; Kukiz 15 12% ; Nowczesna 10%.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
11 Dec 2015 #345
According to the latest poll by TNS Polska:

It's completely out of sync with other polls and can't be taken seriously.
Legal Eagle
11 Dec 2015 #346
There is when the Polish constitution says there is. Unless one is a junior high student in the USA.

HA HA HA HA!

Not when one holds a Ph.D. in law from the oldest university East of Prague, and is the duly elected president of Poland.

Only the person that's never lived in Poland and has no connection to Poland would believe that the Polish Constitution can be treated like a piece of trash.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

ROTLMFAO!

The Polish constitution was treated as a piece of trash in 1792, 1939, 1945, and consistently throughout the communist era and Soviet occupations. For this reason the present constitution is of dubious legality since Wałęsa took power under the 1935 constitution from Kaczorowski, and remained as president when the 1997 constitution was enacted without his consent.

Most people protesting tomorrow will be Poles. Don't you understand that?

No, I only see foreign English teachers like you here promoting this attempted subversion of democracy, but not Poles. There have been no protests reported from Poles living abroad or Polonia.
Binaca
11 Dec 2015 #347
foreign English teachers like you here promoting this attempted subversion of democracy

How I wish Donald J Trump becomes Polands elected president and deports em all limeys.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
11 Dec 2015 #348
only person in Poland

Not at all. The Polish voters who rejected 8 years of Platfus misrule and democratically elected PiS are lookign forward to a long, successful and flourishing governance. Desptie the stumbling blocks and sabotage of the frustrated loser camp, a decent pro-Polish party will ultimately prevail, Eight years of paid lobbying in the service of foreign business interests is more than enough.
Ironside 49 | 10,282
11 Dec 2015 #349
It's completely out of sync with other polls and can't be taken seriously.

Yep, you just saying that because it doesn't support your idea fix that PO somehow is gathering support. Poof! Dream is gone, time to wake up and smell the coffee!
jon357 63 | 15,214
11 Dec 2015 #350
are lookign forwar

Already it's started to fall. Their disrespect for the constitution and their disastrous decisions about defence are just forerunners to their failure to fulfil election promises.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
11 Dec 2015 #351
PO

Experts place the blame for the current commotion squarely on PO's shoulders. Certain media have joined the "hate cmapaign" circus and are outoing

m each other in trying to deride and discredit the democratically elected government. But the protesters cannot count on the support of the Polish nation.

wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,141000,title,Awantura-o-Trybunal-Konstytucyjny-Eksperci-oskarzaja-PO-o-wywolanie-sporu,wid,18036927,wiadomosc.html
Legal Eagle
12 Dec 2015 #352
Certain media have joined the "hate campaign" circus and are outdoing each other in trying to deride and discredit the democratically elected government.

Foreign owned media are following a foreign editorial policy of slanted, anti-democratic news.

But the protesters cannot count on the support of the Polish nation.

No, but those foreigners protesting can all go home any time they wish.
Harry
12 Dec 2015 #353
We are at home. Fortunately so are you.
Legal Eagle
12 Dec 2015 #354
The white, balding, South African English teachers who fled their fatherland when apartheid ended attending the protests can love Poland or leave it.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
12 Dec 2015 #355
We are at home. Fortunately so are you.

And fortunately, he will never be here.

Foreign owned media are following a foreign editorial policy of slanted, anti-democratic news.

Can you provide examples?

Not when one holds a Ph.D. in law from the oldest university East of Prague, and is the duly elected president of Poland.

First things first, a PhD is nothing special in Poland. Many people have one, and it doesn't mean very much. Secondly, Duda has been denounced in an open letter from his own faculty for abusing the Constitution.

The Polish constitution was treated as a piece of trash in 1792, 1939, 1945, and consistently throughout the communist era and Soviet occupations.

Perhaps you consider it to have been a "piece of trash", but that's only to be expected from someone that isn't Polish and has no ties to Poland.

For this reason the present constitution is of dubious legality since Wałęsa took power under the 1935 constitution from Kaczorowski, and remained as president when the 1997 constitution was enacted without his consent.

You haven't provided a single legal reference to back up this claim, so one can only assume that it's nonsense. Wałęsa did not take power from Kaczorowski, but from Jaruzelski. It's also clear that the Polish Nation appointed Wałęsa in a public vote, unlike Kaczorowski who assumed his (fictional) powers from a Constitution that was introduced in a completely undemocratic manner. I must admit - no-one in Poland regards Wałęsa as being the President.

There have been no protests reported from Poles living abroad or Polonia.

Don't worry, we're getting there. Give us time ;) One of the most important tasks right now will be to mobilise the Polonia against the events in Poland.

But the protesters cannot count on the support of the Polish nation.

Numbers are growing, Polonius.
Legal Eagle
12 Dec 2015 #356
but that's only to be expected from someone that isn't Polish and has no ties to Poland.

Simply delusional.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
12 Dec 2015 #357
Now now. We shouldn't expect you to understand Poland or Polish law while living in California all your life, so I guess we've been rather harsh on you.
Legal Eagle
12 Dec 2015 #358
Wałęsa did not take power from Kaczorowski, but from Jaruzelski.

Simply delusional, and not what was reported or true. Kaczorowski was the legitimate president of a free Poland who attended Wałęsa's inauguration to confer power upon him. Jaruzelski was banned as a Russian puppet.

Wałęsa did not ta I must admit - no-one in Poland regards Wałęsa as being the President.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Irrelevant and delusional.

Wałęsa had a 7 year term as president (minimum) under the applicable constitution, so he was president in 1997 and did not approve of that alleged constitution. Thus, it is invalid.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
12 Dec 2015 #359
Simply delusional, and not what was reported or true.

First things first, I suggest you look at the law under which Wałęsa was elected. The Government-in-Exile did not hold an election, but rather the 3rd Republic of Poland did.

Kaczorowski was the legitimate president of a free Poland who attended Wałęsa's inauguration to confer power upon him.

Kaczorowski attended to symbolically transfer power, but real power was transferred by Jaruzelski. Maybe in America, it's obligatory for your President to attend these things, but here, there's no such requirement. Furthermore, Wałęsa was elected as a result of Jaruzelski resigning - the Sejm then organised new elections for the Presidency, and hence Wałęsa's authority came from the Kontrakt Sejm and Senate which agreed to amend the rules surrounding the election of the President and not the government in exile.

Wałęsa had a 7 year term as president (minimum) under the applicable constitution, so he was president in 1997 and did not approve of that alleged constitution.

If you hold that line, then you are also saying that Lech Kaczyński and Andrzej Duda are not legitimate presidents.

Somehow, can't imagine you'll find much support with that view.

Oh, hang on here.

According to your theory, Wałęsa was elected under the 1935 Constitution, right?

So how does the 1992 Small Constitution work according to your theory? He was the President as appointed by the Government-in-Exile, which means that he replaced the 1935 Constitution with the 1992 Small Constitution. Article 29 of the Small Constitution clearly lays out the rules by which Presidents are elected, and hence Wałęsa was up for re-election in 1995 according to the rules of Article 29.

Sorry "Legal Eagle", but your theory is full of holes ;)
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
13 Dec 2015 #360
Some random "defenders of democracy" :)))))


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