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Stronger Russia, safer Poland, in world that globalize - is this be truth?


Crow 137 | 7,632
13 Jan 2015  #1
i have impression that is strategic situation of Poland and Russia mutually interdependent, in world that globalize. How others see this interdependence?
Harry
13 Jan 2015  #2
i have impression that is strategic situation of Poland and Russia mutually interdependent

But that is because you know three-fifths of fcuk all about Poland and Polish people.

How others see this interdependence?

It is not possible to see things which do not exist.
whyikit 6 | 102
13 Jan 2015  #3
For that to happen Russia would have to see Poland as an equal, which isn't going to happen... IMHO. Also I do not think this would be welcomed in Poland as a whole, maybe by some minorities but no where near a majority.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
13 Jan 2015  #4
maybe by some minorities

Not even those. I live in the part of Poland where people of Belarussian and Ukrainian ancestry live, and they have no yearning for closer ties to Russia, I can assure you.
Harry
13 Jan 2015  #5
I think he's referring to the tiny minority which make up the couple of hundred retarded racist cretins who march in Warsaw in support of things such as the Serbian occupation of Kosovo; you know the utter morons which people who know less than nothing about Poland claim in some way represent Poland.

Let's face it, you can find some people who will support absolutely anything, provided, of course, that the unattractive parts of that thing are happening to other people.
OP Crow 137 | 7,632
13 Jan 2015  #6
People, i getting wrong answers.

Question was >>> Stronger Russia, safer Poland, in world that globalize - is this truth?

So, question refers to the strategic situation of Poland and Russia and interdependence from their strategic environment. It doesn`t mean that Poland and Russia needs to love each others. Simple, question deal with political reality in which we all live. If Russia is weak that affects Poland, if Russia is strong that also affects Poland, if Russia eventually cease to exist it could affect Poland. In any case, Poland is because of Russia (and opposite) matter of reactions of other global players. That also produce interdependence, not just actions of Poland and Russia. Question does not include love but, general political reality.
SafePolandO.O
13 Jan 2015  #7
No russia = Poland safe, remove commies. 1920 - Glory to the Piłsudski!
Levi_BR 6 | 220
13 Jan 2015  #8
With Oil under 70 USD, Russia is DEAD. Imagine with the oil at 45 USD as now.

Ger over that, Crow.

Putin will not be at power at the end of this year anymore.

So give up of your communist dreams.
pigsy 7 | 305
13 Jan 2015  #9
Ger over that, Crow.

he cannot.

Putin will not be at power at the end of this year anymore.

we have to wait and see.

So give up of your communist dreams.

He is a serb what do you expect?
OP Crow 137 | 7,632
13 Jan 2015  #10
Destruction of Russia isn`t impossible option. There are global players that push in that direction. But, even if Russia case to exist, western European powers and USA won`t allow Poland to replace Russia. USA, Britain, France and Germany would control formerly Russian resources, not Poland. But, i presume, to those who are blind for this situation, that may occur, don`t care even for the Poland. For Slavic Poland.

Merged: At this historical moment, role of Russia suits all vital Poland`s and Polish interests

It is extraordinary interesting to me that at this moment, role of Russia, suits to all vital Poland`s and Polish interests. So, i decided to share this conclusion of mine to all members and guests of this forum. This fact pleases me. This proving that two Slavic and Eastern European countries- Poland and Russia can coexist without negating each other.

i would later in discussion elaborate more my position on this topic.

1. Russia promote Multi-Polar world what suits Poland`s interests. Poland would like to form Intermarium, which have to exist as one of powers in Multi-Polar world, what would lead in Poland`s sustainable economic progress and development.

2. Russia fight against Islamic terrorism, which helping Poland to preserve its own values and tradition.

3. Russia fights against domination of western Europe and USA, which helping Poland to escape certain assimilation in Anglo, Franco and Germanic worlds.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
3 Nov 2015  #11
Russia fights

And Russia fights to keep the non-Russian nations within the Russian Federation although they should be granted their freedom and independence from the Kremlin. Russia fights to retain control of illegally annexed Crimea and has never apologised for sending troops and hardware into Ukraine to undermine its stability. And Russia is fighting through propaganda, blackmail and harassment to prevent sovereign states entering whatever defensive alliances they see fit and opposes NATO bases and troops on its borders. But NATO countries have every right to oppose a Russian military build-up on the borders of those independent countries. The bottom line is that Russia should be kept at a distance, neutralised and saddled with incapaciotating sanctions until they not only return Crimea to Ukraine but fully reimburse that country for the destruction of human lives and property their aggression had caused.

Russia is the eternal enemy, NATO -- the eternal champion of human freedom!
whocares
3 Nov 2015  #12
Pros...
I have no problem with the average Russian...
Poland could improve relations with the country instead of heavily favoring just the West (like now).
Poland should be a bridge between east and west open to all countries who want trade. At the moment it heavily favors the West (particularly EU and US).

A balanced neutral relationship with many countries could only help Poland and the recent/current adminstrations just dont get it.

Cons...
At the same time though, Poland cant get to close with Russia, because Russia could abuse that. We dont fully know Putin or his adminstrations intentions.

Multipolar world is good I agree BUT does Russia want Eastern Europe to be its slave like in the past (similar to today Belarus) or does he want it to be simply a partner?

So I just dont know Crow... most Poles have suspicion of Russia.
OP Crow 137 | 7,632
3 Nov 2015  #13
Russia is the eternal enemy, NATO -- the eternal champion of human freedom!

said on Anglo behind nick name Polonius3 on Polish forums. That about your credibility to say something like that what you just said.

But, at the same time, i don`t have problem if you are Anglo. Just, its time that Anglos stop to fight their battles against Russia, with the heads of Poles

Poland could improve relations with the country instead of heavily favoring just the West (like now).

well, i think that we live in time when Poland announced its intention to be independent. Creation of Intermarium would improve Poland`s capability to balance between western Europe and Russia. But, not only that. Intermarium have to move Poland out of that eternal circle of attempt to satisfy interests of all her neighbors, just every moment and always.

Poland should be a bridge between east and west open to all countries who want trade.

yes

At the moment it heavily favors the West (particularly EU and US).

true. Still

A balanced neutral relationship with many countries could only help Poland and the recent/current adminstrations just dont get it.

i think that things change

most Poles have suspicion of Russia

Just look at Serbia. Russia can`t control even Serbia but can only seek understanding in fair partnership. How could then possible Russia control Poland? Its absolutely impossible. Russia tried that and failed. This world is too much diverse, many interests.

My blood, heart and soul are 100% Polish!

i apologize then, if you aren`t Anglo. God loves you.

Just, as a Serbian, i am 300% Polish, so don`t insist on your 100 or 200%. See, its not that much

And every true Pole fears, resents and is suspicious of Russia and admires and respects NATO.

No need for hysteria. We talk nicely in this thread.

Even today Poland's efforts to have full NATO bases (not just supply dumps) on Polish soil were reported on the television news.

Absolutely. What you expect. Poland is part of NATO. Back then Poland was part of Warsaw pact and took part in occupation of Czechoslovakia. But, fortunately, Poles saved themselves from lunacy of the past and they would save themselves in our time and always. God always care for Poland, i see and its glad to me.

And that news warmed the heart of every true Pole!

lie or maybe just your hysteria, again. One can`t be sure.
nothanks - | 640
3 Nov 2015  #14
Problem: the current Generation is Russophobic. Even the PiS party is Pro-USA. Not Western-Euro but American........
OP Crow 137 | 7,632
3 Nov 2015  #15
There is the significant Polish diaspora in USA. Their ancestors abandoned Poland at a time when Russia, among others, oppressed Poland. So, they are right to be suspicious on Russia but, it is also fact that they loosing quality of perception because they are USA tax payers for generations already. Their private interests are heavy connected with destine of USA. Its also fact.
NocyMrok
4 Nov 2015  #16
Crow. You said something about Anglos using Poles in wars. That's true and I hate that but keep in mind that no other country and I mean absolutely no other country has shed more Polish blood than Kacaps from the east. We have nothing in common with them.
whocares
4 Nov 2015  #17
The problem with some Polonia members is that they dont know how to separate views from their host nation and Poland. They have duel loyalties

and this can lead to some problems.
If I asked are you more loyal to US or Poland, it would be hard to answer for many of you.
A big problem is that its hard for Pol-Ams, or Pol-Brits to differeniatate between whats good for Poland, and what is good for say US.

Sometimes Polish interests will be different from the US. And you may not like it or want to entertain that possibility.

I'm as anti-Anglo and anti-WASP as they come.

Polonius despite my criticism of American foreign policy, I am not your enemy. We both agree that Poland should stay socially strong and Catholic for fear it becomes like some secular antiChristian Western European nations.

You cant generalize for all Poles that we all "admire" NATO though.
Whether left wing or right wing, regardless of political views a Pole remains a Pole.

The problem with your statement is that much of US "elites" are either WASP, with smaller amount of Catholics and Jews. The one Catholic leader of the US was murdered because he went too far.

The US was founded on some freemasonic principles. You know the Catholic position on Freemasonry?

Just, its time that Anglos stop to fight their battles against Russia, with the heads of Poles

Every person who has power and money will have their own agendas.
Here I agree with you Crow. Poland has always been in dangerous position geographically.
Currently the extremely anti-Russian politics of Poland, can create an unneccesary conflict. I dont want any war, I dont want any Pole or other human being dying because of these politics.

Problem: the current Generation is Russophobic. Even the PiS party is Pro-USA. Not Western-Euro but American........

Some are, others are not. I believe that with time things will change. Time often heals old wounds.
There are two main reasons why I believe many Poles are anti-Russian.
1)Tough History 2)Propaganda

History...
Some Poles who are anti-Russian have a right to be angry. For example hundred thousands Poles were murdererd and even more deported during the early to mid Soviet times.

If a family member (grandpa, etc), suffered greatly from Communists I would be angry too. Just understand that Russians are not all savages, they are normal human beings and most of them today are not guilty for crimes of a few.

I have forgiven but not forgotten what Germans, Russians, Ukrainians, Swedes, etc do to beautiful Poland in history. Millions and millions Polish die.
But its good to improve present and future situation to prevent.

Propaganda...
The media is often quite antiRussian. Media can influence many people more than you think.
Its good to balance between various news sources, not just one.

---

The Polish "elites" have become close to Germany, UK and US.
The strongest relations are with Anglo US and UK (at least now under PIS).

The American "elites" are composed of two groups...
1)Democrat Liberal Globalists (think Obama, UN, many leftist policies).
2)Neoconservative Republicans (think Project for New American century, Israel, aggressive foreign policy, pseudo-conservatives).

Polish conservatives PIS have become connected with American right wing.
But many of these Neoconservative Zionists (those who support Israel, large section of Jewish politicians here)
have different priorities. Sometimes help Poland, but not always in best interest of Poland. Primarly to push American interest first.

Influential other character here is Zbigniew Brzezinski. He is Pol-Am who has ties to important individuals in US (Carter, Kissinger, Rockefeller, etc).
He is smart but quite anti-Russian (check out some of his interviews/quotes if you understand Polish).
In my opinion he and his son are a bit too pro American, but sometimes blind to Polish interests.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
4 Nov 2015  #18
normal human beings

But what you call "normal (Russian) human beigns" are blindly supporting an aggressively dictatorial monster in exactly the same way as Germans cheered Hitler. The Anscluß of Austria and the annexation of Crimea were welcomed with the same kind of public enthusiasm. The Russian people seem mesmerised by pint-sized quasi-tsar Vlad. With such a country it is diffciutl to find any common ground.
Atch 17 | 2,861
4 Nov 2015  #19
I saw a documentary a few years ago, where the British writer and broadcaster Michael Palin visited Russia and he was talking to some young, well educated Russians about politics. Their attitudes were quite extraordinary. Democracy wasn't much favoured, as if they feel it won't work in their culture. There was a consensus that Russia needs a 'strong leader'. It was as if they feel more comfortable being dictated to, makes them feel secure.
nothanks - | 640
4 Nov 2015  #20
Russia has a gigantic border with relatively under-developed infrastructure. Need a strong centralized government

But it's also cultural. IMO it's possible to be Capitalistic and also Homogenous but you are at a dis-advantage. Consider all the creative and driven homosexuals or feminists that relocate to the West. Russia does not really replace them with immigrants.
Atch 17 | 2,861
4 Nov 2015  #21
Need a strong centralized government

Yes but they don't have one.
Harry
4 Nov 2015  #22
It is extraordinary interesting to me that at this moment, role of Russia, suits to all vital Poland`s and Polish interests.

If that is interesting to you, it will be because your knowledge of Poland, Poland's interests and Poland's people is approximately the square root of sod all.

Poland would like to form Intermarium

1. Poland isn't interested in Intermarium. Poland has no need and no desire to link itself closely with the poorer less developed parts of Europe. Poland looks west and north, not south and east. Poland doesn't want to be a power in a multi-polar world, Poland wants to be a power in the EU. And it will be.

2. Russia's actions help terrorists; furthermore, Russia's actions create refugees, some of whom come to Poland and are less than interested in Poland's values and traditions.

3. Poland is united in its wish to be in the EU, just deal with that fact.

Anglo? Who's been spreading such lies? I'd be ashamed to be an Anglo, WASP, Brit, Limey, Pommie or whatever.

So much hatred. Don't you think you life would be easier if you just accepted what you are?

everybody, please refrain from off-topic comments
OP Crow 137 | 7,632
4 Nov 2015  #23
ADMIN it was bad merging of threads. i`m not satisfied but, well ....

That's true and I hate that but keep in mind that no other country and I mean absolutely no other country has shed more Polish blood than Kacaps from the east.

i know for Polish-Russian conflicts in general but, i really doubt that Russians eliminated more Poles then Germanics, Anglos, Arabs and Jews. Plus, think of all Polish victims of Anglo schemes.

Have in mind that Polish biological downfall (with it fall of their power), started to accelerate some 1500 years ago with appearance of Germanics on horizon and their more aggressive incursions onto East. Then, symbiosis was created between that what was left of Roman empire, Germanics and Arab and Jewish traders. That symbiosis ancestors of Poles paid in blood. Not only Poles, of course. Go ask Sorbs and found out what is agony behind agony and then again AGONY. On all that cruelty what received Slavic West, Russians came as joke. Ugly joke, true but, joke. They caused a lot of problems to Poles but, try to look from position of back then Russian magnates (at that moment most powerful Slavic magnates), those that ruled Russians in time when Russia consolidated after cataclysmic Mongol invasion. When they were looking on Slavic West, all appeared to them as total grabbing. So, when they founded out that they actually can`t prevent anything they joined in grabbing with slogan: `save what can be saved for Slavdom` what in reality was `subjugate all who are left to be subjugated and then try to subjugate even more`.

What i want to tell here, yes Russian sins on Poles are great but, hardly that they were/are greatest Polish foe.

For the sake of truth, let me just underline that scattering of Slavic West started Romans. Yes, they. Who are Germanics? They are Western Slavs who were subjugated to Rome and exposed to trade with Arabs and Jews. So, their language deviated and even new language was formed as result of cultural mixing- Germanic/German language. Germania itself was a Roman province populated with Sarmatians (ie Slavs) as Romans themselves said. Then, after romanziation those Sarmats turned into Germanics. They then started onslaught of their former Sarmatian (ie Slavic) brethren.

We have nothing in common with them.

well but, if western Europeans ever finish with Russia, next day Poland would be on their menu. It is so because Poland exist in equilibrium between western Europeans and Russians. That is why Pilsudski suggested Intermarium and now Duda. Not to mention myself and promotion of it on this forum. Also, that is why i started thread- At this historical moment, role of Russia suits all vital Poland`s and Polish interests.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
4 Nov 2015  #24
[Moved from]: Saudis help Poland to become independent of Russian oil.

There was very good news in today's Rzeczpospolita. Polish refiner Lotos began importing Saudi crude in September and now Orlen and another Polish refiner are poised to follow suit. The oil is of better quality (lower sulphur content) and more reasonably price than what Russian has been supplying. Russia's Rosneft is furious and has accused the Saudis of using dumping prices. The low world oil prices are also hitting the Russian economy hard, because other than "little green men" and vodka the Rooskies have little more than energy raw materials to export.
dany_moussalli 13 | 263
4 Nov 2015  #25
Saudis help

Hmmmmmmmm, I don't think that you should feel excited about this, Saudi Arabia sponsors terrorism and radical muslims that you criticize on other threads.
Billy9999 - | 34
4 Nov 2015  #26
Those Saudi's are all heart, especially when it comes to exporting radical islam. They'll be financing the building of mosques in Poland next to welcome the new "visitors".

The price of being in the EU.

Great news eh :)
Niko
4 Nov 2015  #27
You now the joke I suppose.
A Pole and a Russian are digging the ground and find a treasure.
The Russian says: "Let's share like Russian-Polish brothers"
And the Pole: "No, fifty-fifty"
OP Crow 137 | 7,632
4 Nov 2015  #28
Its good if Poles can take money in some business. Why only Russians, Germans, Chinese or Anglos? But, i don`t know why would some people want to rise discussion about it and try to antagonize Polish-Russian relations.

Then comes the Serbian and says: ``i have better idea. Give it all to me. i would mediate.``
Niko
4 Nov 2015  #29
Now we know it all ;)
OP Crow 137 | 7,632
4 Nov 2015  #30
There are emotions among Slavs and its a fact. Sure, there are also separate interests among Slavs, too. Its also fact. Its even natural. So, its alright when Slavs compete. Just, bottom line have to be one rule- no tears in the eyes of our children.


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