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Shops in Poland to be closed on Sunday?


newpip - | 140
29 May 2013 #61
people like to put atheism into a category. Which itself can be strewed as a belief. I prefer to use the term "non believer". That is what I am. I don't want to get lumped into a group of radical thinkers. So, I use a term which has no negative connotation.
Olaf 6 | 956
29 May 2013 #62
Do the employees have to go to work if the boss says so?

- There is a very clear work law in Poland (at least in those respects). In some circumstances if you really are necessary at work on some weekend or holiday your employer can ask you to come, however you will be paid extra e.g. +100% or more for that. Also you get a day off on some other day. So where's the big damage? If you decide to work in a shop, you must expect this. Same as a baker must be aware he'll be working nights as that's when the bread is made.

Jesus had rather specific views on the wisdom of forcing one's beliefs on other people. But I suppose it is a bit too extreme to expect Catholics to follow the teachings of Christ.

That just made my day, I can relax now;)
jon357 69 | 18,363
29 May 2013 #63
Most shops are already forced to close on Public Holidays, hence the long queues outside petrol stations and panic buying in food shops the day before.
Ironside 51 | 11,510
29 May 2013 #64
I just want to remind we had a referendum on Constitution so it's not like minority decided- Poles agreed to that act.

Well referendum doesn't give a guarantee of objectivity, sometimes people could be wrong about thing and given a chance they would redress that.
To put it plainly, many people voted for secular scathe falsely believing they are voting for tolerance when in fact it only opened the back door for intolerance and dictate of minorities.

I think that Christian is the real guarantee of democracy and tolerance in a society.

Care to elaborate on that rather exotic statement?

Since I have understood Harry I'm not bothered any more by his posts. His inner dialog emerges sometimes in this forum.
bledi_nowysacz 2 | 53
29 May 2013 #65
however you will be paid extra e.g. +100% or more for that

Yes

Also you get a day off on some other day. So where's the big damage

The damage is that when your girlfriend/fiancee/wife/friend/father/mother/brother/sister has a day off, you can't go to spend some time with him/her because you'll take another day off when he/she and everybody else is going to be at work, so you'll have a "fantastic" day by yourself. That's the damage.
Harry
29 May 2013 #66
Care to elaborate on that rather exotic statement?

Do "Judge not lest ye be judged" or "Let he that is without sin cast the first stone at her" ring any bells?

What about Jesus' teaching that prayer should not be in public?
Or Jesus' words about the Old Testament still applying (or did I miss the bit where modern Catholics hate shrimp)?
And of course no Catholic would ever dream of getting divorced, would they?

Since I have understood Harry I'm not bothered any more by his posts. His inner dialog emerges sometimes in this forum.

Weren't you recently warned by a mod not to post off-topic and not to insult people? It seems that you won't listen to warnings; pity, I'm sure she'd prefer not to ban you, are you going to leave her with no choice?
sobieski 107 | 2,128
29 May 2013 #67
I myself am working frequently on Sundays. But that is out of my own choice because that is free-lance (the same I am working sometimes at 05.30 in the morning). My wife frequently works Sundays but she is a journalist so that is normal.

I do not think however that Auchan and the other baddies should be open on Sundays. People working there have no choice.
Same as before Christmas and Easter they have to work until the last minute.

In my native Belgium shops are closed on Sunday and nobody cries about it.
Has nothing to with the "Lord's Day" or crap like that. Just the hard-fought for idea that people have the right to Sunday off.

More specifically, local shops (bakeries, butchers, small local supermarkets) are open until 14:00 hrs and that is it. The big ones (Carrefour & Co) are not allowed to open on Sundays. And yes, as in Poland a lot of the staff during the weekend are students. But they know the drill.
Olaf 6 | 956
29 May 2013 #68
The damage is that when your girlfriend/fiancee/wife/friend/father/mother/brother/sister has a day off, you can't go to spend some time with him/her because you'll take another day off when he/she and everybody else is going to be at work, so you'll have a "fantastic" day by yourself. That's the damage.

And a baker from my example has to sleep the whole day after working at night. And a miner sees no sunlight! They should all go on strike, because they are abused, right?

I think that Christian is the real guarantee of democracy and tolerance in a society.

Hahahah. If this was a joke - I laughed, if not (and knowing Ironside's posts I fear it wasn't...) I still laugh but through tears! Christianity is authoritarian and not tolerant, where did you get this from?

Ironside was warned by mods

and not to insult people?

? Well then, how tolerant! Real guarantee of tolerance!
Barney 15 | 1,476
29 May 2013 #69
Do "Judge not lest ye be judged" or "Let he that is without sin cast the first stone at her" ring any bells?

They do indeed and have exactly nothing to do with your sectarian statement
"I suppose it is a bit too extreme to expect Catholics to follow the teachings of Christ.".
Harry
29 May 2013 #70
They do indeed

Would you say that the majority of Catholics in Poland follow the teachings which I quoted? All of the ones which I quoted, not just the ones which you cherry picked.

Although to come back to the topic, it would very much seem that Jesus says that the only people who can criticise those who wish to work on Sundays are those who are without sin. Are we to assume that the people who are calling for a ban on Sunday trading consider themselves to be without sin? Or simply that they consider the teachings of Christ do not apply to them?

your sectarian statement

This forum would be a far nicer place if you could manage to post without insulting other posters.
bledi_nowysacz 2 | 53
29 May 2013 #71
They should all go on strike, because they are abused, right?

Of course not, but as long as everybody who's working on the same line of work has a day off why am I supposed to work? The professions you mention are a bit different, because a miner knows where he's going to work, and a baker knows at what time he/she's supposed to start work. But in an average job which starts at 7-8:00 am and finishes somewhere in the afternoon ( 16-17:00 )and the workplace is above the ground it's a bit unfair for people to not be able to spend a normal holiday with kids or family. That's all I had in mind, no strikes.
kondzior 12 | 1,242
29 May 2013 #72
Jesus had rather specific views on the wisdom of forcing one's beliefs on other people. But I suppose it is a bit too extreme to expect Catholics to follow the teachings of Christ.

cough .. Cleansing of the Temple cough...
Harry
29 May 2013 #73
cough ... shopping malls are temples for Mammon ... cough ... Mammon is not our Lord and God ... cough
kondzior 12 | 1,242
29 May 2013 #74
...Sunday is not the day we should worship Mammon, cough...
Harry
29 May 2013 #75
Sunday is not the day when most Poles worship Jesus either. Fewer than four in ten Poles bother going to church regularly on a Sunday.

I wonder what percentage of Poles regularly commit the supposed sin of buying things on a Sunday. Anybody happen to have any numbers to hand?
bledi_nowysacz 2 | 53
29 May 2013 #76
buying things on a Sunday. Anybody happen to have any numbers to hand

2/2 at my home :D
kondzior 12 | 1,242
29 May 2013 #77
Sunday is not the day when most Poles worship Jesus either. Fewer than four in ten Poles bother going to church regularly on a Sunday.
I wonder what percentage of Poles regularly commit the supposed sin of buying things on a Sunday. Anybody happen to have any numbers to hand?

Thats exactly why the law may be needed.
Ironside 51 | 11,510
29 May 2013 #78
Ironside was warned by mods
Harry:
and not to insult people?
? Well then, how tolerant! Real guarantee of tolerance!

How queer, you disagree with me and you rejoice when someone say something bad about me without verifying whether it is true or not. How balanced, reasonable and tolerant person you are, in case your vanity would prevent you from seeing my words for what they are - this is sarcasm.

Hahahah. If this was a joke - I laughed, if not (and knowing Ironside's posts I fear it wasn't...) I still laugh but through tears! Christianity is authoritarian and not tolerant, where did you get this from?

Well, that according to your booklet you carry around "The little heathen". The same source explain why heathens are better people than everybody else especially Christians. They may claim that all they want but it doesn't make it true. Put your little ideological bias aside and see the world for what it is.

That just made my day, I can relax now;)

I see a day without a dig at Catholics or Christians is a day wasted. I wonder what your booklet says about Jews, would you be so blatantly offensive towards them as well?

Nevertheless if you don't like Christians go back into the protective darkness of your native woods.They will no bother you there. Do not buy a rifle though like your countryman recently.
Harry
29 May 2013 #79
Thats exactly why the law may be needed.

You mean that Poles are rejecting Christianity and so they must be forced by the law of the land to observe religious teaching which they have clearly rejected? Surely even you can see where that one ends up.

Still, if you want to hasten the end of the RCC in Poland, I guess that that is your business.
kondzior 12 | 1,242
29 May 2013 #80
So Harry, why are you not being happy with shops being closed on Sundays?

Scientists (at least the really good ones) are fully aware of the limited nature of their knowledge.

Again we see here an obvious misconception regarding the nature of "knowledge". Science isn't knowledge. Technology isn't knowledge. Medicine isn't knowledge. All those things are predicated upon mere information, the accumulation of which is the farthest possible thing from true knowledge.

Now, consider this. What is the purpose of life? For a modern person, to live means to take advantage of what the physical world has to offer, meaning that existence is a simple pursuit of egotistic and hedonistic impulses. For an ancient person, life meant to become closer to the creator, that is, spiritual realization, because he understood that the physical world offered no happiness (by definition really, which is clear to anyone who actually understands what the physical world truly is). Now, consider for a moment what is entailed behind the scientific enterprise of the modern world, and the amount of effort and the type of demands this aberration imposes upon the lives of millions of people. Can anyone even find the time to seek spiritual realization when we are all basically slaves of this scientific and technological apparatus we tend to regard so highly? An ancient person only experienced spiritual things, whether due to his closeness to virgin nature or his exposure to a tradition that had a direct connection with the eternal. A modern person is thrown into profanity from the moment he is born to the moment he dies. Our surroundings are profane and artificial, our experiences set upon non-spiritual or outright anti-spiritual things. From our youth we are trained in some technical or social skill, to spend our existence to maintain a system which serves as its own justification. And for what? Comfort and conveniences? The ability to escape certain types of diseases, and thus extended our chances for a life that's going to end in death anyway? Is this truly the mark of a civilization that has finally reached true "enlightenment"?
Barney 15 | 1,476
29 May 2013 #81
Would you say that the majority of Catholics in Poland follow the teachings which I quoted? All of the ones which I quoted, not just the ones which you cherry picked

You are holding Catholics to a standard that you have arbitrarily chosen in order to hide your clear sectarian comment.

If I wanted to debate theology I would choose someone who knew something about theology.

The forum would be a better place without sectarian comments
irishlodz 1 | 135
29 May 2013 #82
I'm not religious in the slightest. I do think there is merit in the German system however. Shopping centres being open 24/7 is convenient, but these private companies cannot be trusted not to exploit workers. They try to erode the premium payments made constantly for unsociable hours.

I think restricting Supermarkets and shopping centres to something like 10-4pm on Sundays would be a good compromise. The leisure industry would of course be excluded, as would convenience stores under a certain size. People could still get whatever essentials they need.

In Paris pharmacies rotate their Weekend openings around local clusters of 4/5 shops. Means public get essential service while people get reasonable leisure time. I think such practical solutions work best.
Barney 15 | 1,476
29 May 2013 #83
Irishlodz dont be using common sense it just confuses people.
Harry
29 May 2013 #84
So Harry, why are you not being happy with shops being closed on Sundays?

I see no reason why people should not be free to practise the profession of their choosing at the time of their choosing. I also see no reason why people should be able to force their religious beliefs on other people: if you don't agree with people working on Sundays, don't work on Sundays and don't support people who do.

these private companies cannot be trusted not to exploit workers.

That is precisely why Labour law exists.

You are holding Catholics to a standard that you have arbitrarily chosen

Catholics claim to follow Christ: the standards they should aim to follow are the one Christ gave to them. It's a pity that many of them do not.

If I wanted to debate theology I would choose someone who knew something about theology.

If I wanted to again debate theology (unlikely after spending three years living in a flat with two women who were each taking the finest Bth in the country), I'd choose somebody who can debate without throwing in insults and lies.
Barney 15 | 1,476
29 May 2013 #85
If I wanted to again debate theology (unlikely after spending three years living in a flat with two women who were each taking the finest Bth in the country), I'd choose somebody who can debate without throwing in insults and lies.

I knew someone who could speak Japanese doesn't make me fluent in that language.

I'm still waiting for you to explain your Sectarian comments, of course you are not going to do so
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
29 May 2013 #86
Science isn't knowledge. Technology isn't knowledge. Medicine isn't knowledge.

Great. No need to discuss anything further then. Just sit back and enjoy your ride. BTW - I strongly disagree with you.

For a modern person, to live means to take advantage of what the physical world has to offer, meaning that existence is a simple pursuit of egotistic and hedonistic impulses.

How can you be so sure? Have you talked to every single person alive today? Aren't you being a tad judgmental and prejudiced? I personally know a lot of people, myself included, who do not simply pursue their egotistic impulses, even though they are not "religious".

An ancient person only experienced spiritual things, whether due to his closeness to virgin nature or his exposure to a tradition that had a direct connection with the eternal.

Another sweeping generalisation. Do you think people several thousand years ago did not want to have lots of sex, to be rich, to rule and dominate others? You must be dreaming. As to virgin nature, you could read up on how our early ancestors changed the landscapes we live in today and think of as "natural" ;-)
Harry
29 May 2013 #87
I'm still waiting for you to explain your Sectarian comments

No you aren't: I've already pointed out the tiny little teachings of Jesus which more than a few Catholics have problems with.
Did Jesus also have something to say about constantly telling fibs?

Come to think of it, did Jesus have anything at all to say about not going shopping on one day of the week? Or is this yet another of the 'I think what God meant to say' situations. I do seem to remember Jesus saying something about his followers not needing to be worried about people judging them for what they eat or drink or for their behaviour on holy days.
Barney 15 | 1,476
29 May 2013 #88
No you aren't: I've already pointed out the tiny little teachings of Jesus which more than a few Catholics have problems with.

On the contrary Harry, you made a blatant sectarian comment and I would like you to explain it.
I suppose it is a bit too extreme to expect Catholics to follow the teachings of Christ

Holding Catholics to a higher standard than other denominations in an attempt to explain your comment is also sectarian, surely your flat mates told you that.
Olaf 6 | 956
29 May 2013 #89
What booklet? I am really curious what booklet you mean that I carry? The Unwritten Book of Logics and Common Sense? Mind, Reason and Sanity, pt 1 and 2?

go back into the protective darkness of your native woods

Ok, I might do it because it sounds appealing when you write it like that;). If I don't reply for too long that means I'm there with no Internet access of course!

Well if I'm

queer

then I may as well be full of

vanity

;). I didn not check it, is it not true you were warned then? Anyway, all I did was to comment on the conversation I quoted. If you were not warned by a mod, then don't worry about it.

this is sarcasm

I wonder what your booklet says about Jews, would you be so blatantly offensive towards them as well?

Contrary to you probably, I am not folowing any particular one book or booklet, not even a leaflet. I do however despise any mind limitations that people set for other people, whether by religious books (any) or by other means.

arbitrarily chosen in order to hide your clear sectarian comment

I don't think his comment was sectarian at all. And the presumption made by Harry was probably made on what we all can see. Not many people go to church, far more declare faith (yet they don't practise it), and even more are put in stathistics as believers because the data is shown based on the fact of being baptised.

Science isn't knowledge. Technology isn't knowledge. Medicine isn't knowledge.

It isn't?

I think restricting Supermarkets and shopping centres to something like 10-4pm on Sundays would be a good compromise. The leisure industry would of course be excluded, as would convenience stores under a certain size. People could still get whatever essentials they need.

This seems like a very good direction maybe, a compromise!
Harry
29 May 2013 #90
Holding Catholics to a higher standard than other denominations

I'm not holding the people who want to ban Sunday trading to a higher standard than other people because they are Catholics, I expect them to behave at that standard because they are Christians (specifically Catholics). Or at least they claim to be Christians and Catholics, the actions of many of them very much suggest otherwise.

This seems like a very good direction maybe, a compromise!

In that case we need to ban all people from working any hours other than ten to four on Sunday. And of course on Saturday, due to that being the Jewish Sabbath. And on Friday, in respect for our Muslim brothers. And on Tuesday, I have always hated working on Tuesday, because the FSM says I shouldn't.


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