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The US sends troops to Poland for drills


Palivec - | 380
25 Apr 2014 #31
600 men, what a show of strength. I bet Putin is trembling in fear.

I think Putin couldn't care less. He achieved his goal, controlling the Black Sea, and everything else is a bonus.
I think the country that trembles in fear is the USofA, which can't do anything against SPIMEX (google it) and tries to use the Ukrainian crisis to drive a wedge between Russia and Europe. A energy market from Spain to China without the dollar is the end of the American century. You can force Iraq and Libya to use the dollar, but not Russia.
Szalawa 3 | 248
25 Apr 2014 #32
I like you for this one :D
Harry
25 Apr 2014 #33
He achieved his goal, controlling the Black Sea

Really? Turkey has been invaded?! The world media has certainly missed that one! Is it being reported on Russia Today yet?
Szalawa 3 | 248
25 Apr 2014 #34
No, he means that Russia secured the warm water ports in crimea
Harry
25 Apr 2014 #35
a) No they have not.
b) Even if they had, ports are no good when one doesn't have access to the oceans.
Szalawa 3 | 248
25 Apr 2014 #36
Even if they had, ports are no good when one doesn't have access to the oceans.

Look on a map, Russia has access to the Oceans
peterweg 37 | 2,319
25 Apr 2014 #37
Russia has access to the Oceans

Not in winter, their ports are frozen over.
Harry
25 Apr 2014 #38
Look on a map, Russia has access to the Oceans

Not from the ports of the Black Sea, not without Turkey letting it.
Crow 152 | 9,737
25 Apr 2014 #39
As for your pretty photos, every nation has its scum. Polish scum pick up banners like that and march the streets; Serbian scum pick up guns and invade neighbouring countries to commit genocide and mass scale systematic rape. We can judge neither nation on what the scum do.

again you with your NATO/EU propaganda. Well, what can you do. You was small when you was indoctrinated by their spin doctors

Thank you , I hope you will give up now on theory about Slav-Serb- Polish everlasting love . There wont be any Slavs coalition anytime soon ...we are weak and obsolete .

in fact i still have hope.

Poles very simply disagree with you. Poles are happy to have NATO troops in Poland and would like to have more of them here.

you see Harry, you are deeply wrong and know little about Poland.

Here is the video from the last year`s pro-Serbian demonstrations in Poland. You would note, especially in the last 10 minutes of the video, how was spoken against NATO and how was EU criticized, in middle of Warsaw.

16.02.2013 WARSZAWA: III MARSZ KOSOVO JEST SERBSKIE

Velika je Poljska!

Szalawa

Brate, you must understand. Its not easy to Poles. They are honorable people to the bottom of their being and they have negative experience with both- west of Europa and Russia. BDW, in case with Polish-Russian conflict, Serbs thinks that Russia bare greater responsibility.

And now USA sends troops to Poland for drills. Those are foreign soldiers on Polish ground and Poles always and regularly had bad luck with foreign army on their lands. Its practically occupation of Poland. Who knows what may happen next. Another partition of Poland? This in Ukraine looks exactly like partition, don`t you think?
Szalawa 3 | 248
25 Apr 2014 #40
Crow

Those are foreign soldiers on Polish ground and Poles always and regularly had bad luck with foreign army on their lands

The U.S has over a 1000 military bases worldwide and spends ridiculous amount of money on the military(I think more then all the next leading nations put together) they are clearly war mongers. I wish for the end of the vassalage of Poland but I don't know if it can be done. :(
Crow 152 | 9,737
25 Apr 2014 #41
parts of my own country are under NATO occupation. German NATO contingent dominates and we experiencing all what goes with occupation. NATO is global problem, so called world policeman. But, what can we do. Its just tool of the powerful financial circles and magnates.

Anyway, i started to lose hope in global peace. Feel kind of pessimism. Too bad with all those stars that are available to humanity if just prevail critical stages in its development. What a pity

Even more i starting to lose hope that would Slavs as unique human civilization survive, even if we all avoid global conflict or even in case that global conflict occurs and some humans survive. Among those who survive, hardly that may survive critical mass of the Slavs that would be able to continue to compete for survival of its civilization, culture and languages. Simple, we don`t have chance. If global conflict happens, main battlefield would be all countries in Central and Eastern and South-Eastern Europe.
kondzior 12 | 1,242
25 Apr 2014 #42
Putin needs to be shown, that there are the limits. that some things will not be tolerated. Sadly, Obama has no guts for it. He's playing the game as timid as a foocking rabbit, these are Chamberlain levels of threats and warnings, Russians see these as signs of weakness which they are. Considering this is Obama's second term he could just announce they're going to station a few thousand men and some tanks in Poland at a new base. There would be Russian yelling, but the bear starts yelling for whatever minor reason anyway like a woman, there must be estrogen in all that krokodil and vodka. And the Americans would take years and years to actually establish a base anyway, and in the end the next president would either significantly downscale it or cancel the whole thing altogether before it is done.

What do the Americans have to lose here anyway? If their bluff would be called then Russians would do the same thing anyway. Ruskies won't nuke the planet over a base in a country that is outside of their sphere of influence anyway, but they might be willing to sign another worthless piece of paper and make concessions regarding Ukraine if USA stepped back from trying to station troops within former soviet dominion. Only ones who could lose on this would be the former commie NATO states as the Russians would probably raise gas prices or shut the pipeline valves, that's all they can do really. And our inane politicians would sacrifice their firstborn if it meant American troops stationed here, most of them don't give a sh!t about gas prices.
Crow 152 | 9,737
25 Apr 2014 #43
Putin needs to be shown, that there are the limits. that some things will not be tolerated. Sadly, Obama has no guts for it. He's playing the game as timid as a foocking rabbit, these are Chamberlain levels of threats and warnings, Russians see these as signs of weakness which they are.

wait, USA and NATO act as so called world policeman. You actually complaint how Russia dare to act as obstacle to the world policeman?

What do the Amerikans have to lose here anyway?

yes, what do the Amerikans have to lose here anyway? If war escalates Poles would lose Poland and what would lose Americans? Its shield called Poland. That would lose Americans. That`s all what would America lose. That`s why America invested in its shield called Poland.

Alright, Americans would also starting to lose if gets some Russian ICBM on its territory. But, let us be realistic. USA won`t risk to lose New York or Washington for Poland. Let us be honest and realistic. So, Poles have to suffer for the good of America and, NATO have to help to Poles to suffer.
kondzior 12 | 1,242
26 Apr 2014 #44
Don't be silly, Russians are not staring to nuke anything, Putin is everything but stupid. As a matter of fact, I respect the bastatd.

I do not doubt the Russian military-industrial complex has skilled engineers and solid designs, even if they are at least a decade behind US in some areas, it's good hardware. But the army itself is a conscript-based one, how good of a fighting force do you believe all the dumb poor ruskie schmucks who couldn't dodge the draft are? That and they can't afford to outfit everyone with the best gear as much as the Kremlin would like to see that, you have a bunch of parade-worthy units with state of the art gear and forgotten garrisons armed with poorly maintained soviet era military antiques.

Still, Russia would definitely not be a pushover in a conventional conflict like Iraq or some other 3rd world hellhole that USA is fond of bombing. USA could beat it in a war though, China possibly could beat it, anyone else though? Not enough men and materiel unless they pool their resources. The up do date forces backed up by a horde of old soviet hardware would be simply too much to deal with to hold a Russian assault. Thats why we need the "policeman", Crow.
Crow 152 | 9,737
26 Apr 2014 #45
Don't be silly, Russians are not staring to nuke anything, Putin is everything but stupid. As a matter of fact, I respect the bastatd.

Putin? He is just pawn in the hands of powerful magnates, who belongs to the financial circles that compete with some other financial circles. Today Putin, tomorrow who knows who.

I do not doubt the Russian military-industrial complex has skilled engineers and solid designs, even if they are at least a decade behind US in some areas, it's good hardware.

i don`t know what Russia have in military sense but i do know that Russia isn`t under NATO occupation.

USA as a state is very close to be simple annihilated. i don`t know how you don`t see that. USA disturbing balance on the globe and provoke entire civilizations, old civilizations- Chinese, Indian, native American (speaking of Brazil), Slavic. If any of these four civilization enter in open military conflict against USA, other three would follow in a unavoidable chain reaction because all are threatened by the same opposition, aware, that are just next target for USA. Building its domination over the world, USA created situation that inevitable leads to fall of USA rule.
Palivec - | 380
26 Apr 2014 #46
Putin needs to be shown, that there are the limits. that some things will not be tolerated. Sadly, Obama has no guts for it.

What exactly did Putin that can't get tolerated? Incorporating a territory that once belonged to Russia, after a democratic referendum? Wasn't the West in favor of the right of self-determination? After all we bombed Serbia when Kosovo tried to do the same?! Or are Russian troops on Russian territory the problem? News flash: there was a coup d'etat in the neighboring country. The democratically elected president was disposed by a Western supported junta, which now guns their own people. Usually the West isn't exactly in favor of such things, see Libya or Syria. But now it's of course totally different, because of all the Russian agent provocateurs. No one could prove a relation to the Russian government yet, but that's no problem, we don't remember the Kuwaitian child before the UN, the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and the Serbian Operation Horseshoe anyway, right? And why is this Obamas problem? No NATO country is in danger. The Ukraine is on the other side of the world.

To quote a famous artist: "I cannot eat as much, as I would like to puke".
kondzior 12 | 1,242
26 Apr 2014 #47
What exactly did Putin that can't get tolerated?

Putin tried nicely to tell other countries how close their relationships with the West should be. Damn those evil imperialists who won't let Putin have control over his colonies!
Crow 152 | 9,737
26 Apr 2014 #48
Don`t forget that there are native Russians in Ukraine, majority in eastern parts of country. In the end, what that even has with Putin`s attitude? What that even has with attitude of official Russia?

What would you said if Russia for example, due to its weakness, ignored those native Russians in Crimea? Would you be happy to see how NATO troops entering in conflict with them and killing them in order to support pro-NATO/EU regime in Kiev?

When i analyze things in my life, i giving my best, i hope, that i comprehend what is elemental justice. Then, i constantly learning how is this world hypocritical, how are people different. Am i naive. Are those who are greed and selfish more intelligent then those who seek to behave according to universal moral values

16.02.2013 WARSZAWA: III MARSZ KOSOVO JEST SERBSKIE

In connection to the bigger USA military presents in Poland.

in the light of events in Ukraine i contemplated what, in strategic sense means, massive support of the Polish patriotic political organization to Serbians. Here is what i concluded:

1. Polish patriots using Serbian question (Kosovo situation) to underline how is Silesia Poland. It means that most of the Polish patriots recognize threat from the west of Europe in case with Silesia and they sending message that Poland may shift its politics if threatened. Meaning, public support to Serbians on the streets may turn to be actual change of Polish politics in the sense that Poland deflect from NATO and EU.

2. Polish patriots are aware of the strategic importance of Serbia for Poland. Only via Serbia Poland securing access to the warm seas. So, in time when official Poland can`t openly side with Serbs, right winged organizations securing that Poland giving clear signals to the Serbs- to support them; Then, this way Poland giving signals to the partners in NATO and EU that won`t silently accept destruction of Serbia and German/Turkish domination in the region.

3. Supporting Serbians, Poland, via right winged groups, sending signal to Russia that is Poland ready for compromise, in order to secure its access to the warm seas. It means that they expected this development in Ukraine being aware of the Russian dominance in the Black See. Via Serbia, Poland wants to secure its dominance, at least in Adriatic. Presents of the right winged Serbian organizations among Polish patriots is signal to Russia that Serbians wants to support Polish domination in Adriatic and on Balkan. Also, presents of the right winged Serbians among Poles sending signal to Russia that would Serbs secure neutrality of Poland and that Polish domination in the region won`t act against Russia.

4. Polish patriots expected increase of NATO presents in Poland and expect complications. Via Serbians they sending signals to Russia but also to the Czechs, Belorussians, Bulgarians and Slovaks that Poland needs support from other Slavs in any situation that may occur. Polish patriots don`t trust to NATO and EU. They don`t trust neither to Russia but that`s why they as their priority provided Serbian support. Here, Poles using Serbs as shield from possible Russian betrayal.
Palivec - | 380
27 Apr 2014 #49
1) Putin tried nicely to tell other countries how close their relationships with the West should be.
2) Damn those evil imperialists who won't let Putin have control over his colonies!

1) the West started it, by forcing the Ukraine to choose between the EU and Russia in the treaty of association. The Russian offer of a free trade area didn't force the Ukraine to choose between East and West, but according to the EU the Ukraine couldn't be part of both.

2) you should get your facts straight, otherwise you could look like a fool.

Could all posters pay attention to the thread title please. Most of these recent posts are nothing to do with the US sending troops to Poland for drills.
Harry
27 Apr 2014 #50
Since the pact was signed with Poland and others, the NATO promised Russia not to deploy troops in the new member countries

Could you please be so kind as to support that claim. I have asked before for you to do that.
As far as I can see Poland has the right to invite any forces it wants to be here and to do here whatever Poland wants those forces to do. However, I'd be most interested in reading about any commitments given by Poland or NATO which limit Polish independence.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
27 Apr 2014 #51
The US as set a very small contingency thus far,Though it seems a token measure,I think it is indicative of future plans.Tymoshenko is calling for EU membership.I do believe that if Putin tries to roll through the Ukraine,that there will be war.I think that he understands this very well,and is why he has shown restraint,But I think that Putin is somewhat of a wild card,and we can't assume that he won't just roll through.I think in some ways he underestimates the US.Our military industrial complex is itching for this,especially after being shutdown in Syria.My hope is that Putin doesn't go this route.
Crow 152 | 9,737
27 Apr 2014 #52
i think that USA making same mistake as Hitler`s Germany did, opening many fronts in the same time, of course under the pressure of its military complex and its entire economy after all. USA currently actively play game in Latin America, Europe, Asia, Eurasia, Near East and Northern Africa. It already faces difficulties in Eurasia, Near East and Europe (Ukraine, former Yugoslavia). In case of more pressure on any of those critical points, USA may in the same time directly militarily confront with Russia, China and Iran. Its obvious that these three players coordinates being aware of the development of situation. In my opinion, it may prove to be disaster for USA, turning it from global player into the regional or maximally continental power, in a blink of an eye.

Not to say that these three players aren`t only USA problem in global arena.

Now, USA strategists are aware of this and they giving their best to isolate Russia. Then again, Russia is aware of the game. All players knows the game.
p3undone 8 | 1,135
27 Apr 2014 #53
Crow,I hope that troops help quell any fears that the Polish may have of Putin's intentions.Let's remember none of the players are innocent.Please try and discuss the troop situation as well.
Crow 152 | 9,737
27 Apr 2014 #54
i don`t know how you don`t see that i talking troops situation all the time.

Among else, USA sending troops to Poland, not only to `protect` Poles from Russia but also in order to secure Polish `loyalty` in case of USA-Russia conflict. Primarily, USA now securing survivor of the NATO in case of serious crisis.

Man, people, how you don`t see that. In case of USA-Russia military conflict, in a 48 hours there would be `Coup d'état` in Bulgaria and Greece. Slovakia practically already declared its neutrality and Czechs would follow with neutral attitude. So, what NATO we are talking about? i guaranteed you that USA sending troops to Poland to prevent Polish neutrality in the incoming conflict. i guaranteed you. i am sure in it because Polish patriots gave, via Serbians (in a very sophisticated way and without humiliating itself), clear signal to Russia that they don`t wish war with Russia.

USA has serious problems.

In the same time, only hope for all Slavs is that conflict become global. Otherwise, main battlefield would be Eastern Europe and Southern, Central European and Western Slavs (Russia excluded) would be erased as serious biological, political and militarily factor, once and for all.
Harry
28 Apr 2014 #55
Among else, USA sending troops to Poland, not only to `protect` Poles from Russia but also in order to secure Polish `loyalty` in case of USA-Russia conflict.

What utter rubbish! Really Crow, it is such a shame that you have never been to Poland; if you'd ever been here, you would very very quickly have learned that there are very very very few Poles who would choose to support Russia over the USA. Poles these days might not be as smitten as they were with the USA a couple of years back (which is good), but there is still a very significant amount of goodwill which the USA benefits from here. Russia is perhaps not as hated as it was couple of decades ago, but there is very little goodwill on offer for a country which was the de facto occupier of much of Poland of much of the last couple of hundred years.

Slovakia practically already declared its neutrality and Czechs would follow with neutral attitude.

Er, countries which are members of NATO are by definition not neutral.

So, what NATO we are talking about?

Even if your laughable predictions about four NATO member states were true, there are still 24 more. I'm amazed that you have forgotten that, seeing how NATO so recently drove your heroic Serbian warriors from what you claimed was sacred Serbian soil.

And what kind of armies do Slovakia and the Czech republic offer? From memory Norway alone has nearly twice as many men at arms.

i am sure in it because Polish patriots gave, via Serbians (in a very sophisticated way and without humiliating itself), clear signal to Russia that they don`t wish war with Russia.

The sad thing about most of the people who describe themselves as Polish patriots is that they'd actually quite like a war with Russia, but it's entirely understandable that you don't know that. You know so little about Poles that you think the handful of cretins who march in support of Serb claims to Kosovo in any way represent Poles.
peterweg 37 | 2,319
28 Apr 2014 #56
not only to `protect` Poles from Russia but also in order to secure Polish `loyalty` in case of USA-Russia conflict

Do you know that Poland was so 'loyal to Russia' during the Cold War that the Polish Military was expected to attack their Russian Warsaw Pact 'allies' and switch to the NATO side.

Who hatesd Russia the Most? Poland
sobieski 107 | 2,128
28 Apr 2014 #57
Slovakia practically already declared its neutrality and Czechs would follow with neutral attitude.

How peculiar... Opened my local Warsaw newspaper today and first thing I read:
Slovakia and the Czech Republic stepped up their joint air patrols on the Ukrainian border area.
FYI: Both countries are NATO members. Both countries had joint missions in Kosovo, protecting the local people from the Serb militias. You should watch the movie Rwanda Hotel :)
Szalawa 3 | 248
28 Apr 2014 #58
Hungary stated neutrality for the Ukrainian crisis and they are a N.A.T.O member

You should watch the movie Rwanda Hotel :)

Genocide that was provoked by Western occupation and turned the two against each other even though their was no real ethnic divide between the tutsis and hutu

N.A.T.O terrorist organization in my opinion has done more bad then good
Harry
28 Apr 2014 #59
N.A.T.O terrorist organization in my opinion has done more bad then good

With the exception of the handful of cretins which every nation has, Poles are very supportive of NATO, as is evident to anybody who has ever been to Poland.
Szalawa 3 | 248
28 Apr 2014 #60
Yes, I know Poles always wan't to be part of the west to impress them, but their are those with a little more sense and actually understand whats going on.


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