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Poland's Sejm passes anti-terrorist act; opposition negate


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
10 Jun 2016  #1
The Sejm has adopted a tough anti-terrrorist act to safeguard the nation against potential threats. "You used to defend thieves, now you're defending terrrorists,"

J. Kaczyński told the opposition. The negative oppostion can only negate, nitpick and backbite since they've got no coherent programme of their own other than PiS-bashing and herding people into the streets. It's no wonder then that the latest CBOS survey shows that PiS enjoy greater support than Petru & PO combined.
dany_moussalli 13 | 263
10 Jun 2016  #2
I tried to search for the components of the act, and found these, correct me if i'm wrong:

Limited freedom of assembly , the government may gain a powerful tool to ban public protests

So basically the government can ban all the protests by the opposition under the pretext of terrorism ? It sounds like the martial law from PRL doesn't it ?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
10 Jun 2016  #3
the government may gain a powerful tool

We are at war with international terrorism and at times of war tough safegaurds are put in palce by even the most democratic of countries. It's better to be safe than sorry!
jon357 63 | 14,124
10 Jun 2016  #4
So basically the government can ban all the protests by the opposition under the pretext of terrorism ? It sounds like the martial law from PRL doesn't it ?

Very much so - they've already started raiding the offices of opposition parties and banning the peaceful and civillised Polish pro-democracy rallies is unfortunately a logical next step for them. And that's when the international community will respond.
gumishu 11 | 5,012
10 Jun 2016  #5
they've already started raiding the offices of opposition parties

it is illegal for Polish parties to accept donations or to otherwise be funded by foreing countries - this is what Partia Zmiana and Mateusz Piskorski were doing - Piskorski is personally charged with cooperation with Russian intelligence agencies and taking money for this
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
10 Jun 2016  #6
the international community

More snitchery and calls for foreign intervention, in oterh words TARGOWICA!
jon357 63 | 14,124
10 Jun 2016  #7
it is illegal for Polish parties to accept donations

And this is a reason to raid an opposition party's office without warning and at dawn? Most democracies would raise the issue in parliament rather than react in the shabby and shameless way that we expect from PiS.

iskorski is personally charged with

Charged with, not convicted, and the PiS regime (who are behind this) are hardly known for their love of truth or justice.
dany_moussalli 13 | 263
10 Jun 2016  #8
We are at war with international terrorism

throughout history, many totalitarian regimes used different pretexts to ban the legitimate opposition protests.. and this seems like just another case.

even the most democratic of countries

I have never heard that protests were banned under the pretext of terrorism in France, UK, USA, Spain, Belgium, and these countries were hit harder by terrorism than Poland.
gumishu 11 | 5,012
10 Jun 2016  #9
And this is a reason to raid an opposition party's office?

there was enough evidence to justify it - and the prosecutors or ABW probably hoped to find more evidence

I have never heard that protests were banned under the pretext of terrorism

no protests were banned - listen to what jon is saying and you will walk barefoot in Polish winter - good luck with that
jon357 63 | 14,124
10 Jun 2016  #10
there was enough evidence to justify it -

In your opinion. Others might wonder why they did wht they did, especially since there is insufficient reason to make a dawn raid on the offices of a legally constituted political party.

Imagine that happening in the UK, the US etc. But then again, those countries have better governments and a far smaller history of the political repression that PiS find so attractive.
gumishu 11 | 5,012
10 Jun 2016  #11
there was enough evidence to justify it - and the prosecutors or ABW probably hoped to find more evidence

btw Mateusz Piskorski was in the process of arranging his escape from Poland ABW claims

there was enough evidence to justify it - and the prosecutors or ABW probably hoped to find more evidence

btw Mateusz Piskorski was in the process of arranging his escape from Poland ABW claims
jon357 63 | 14,124
10 Jun 2016  #12
arranging his escape from Poland

The borders came down in 2004 and the requirement for exit visas was aboloshed 25+ years ago - nobody has to 'escape' from Poland - however it is understandable that a Polish pro-democracy activist or anyone else at direct risk from PiS and their cohorts may want to be in a safe place - and we can see why given the regime-sponsored attacks on this man.

We know, Gumi, that you have a bit of a history here of unsuccessfully trying to defend PiS actions, however that comment takes the biscuit!

arranging his escape from Poland

Ditto
kpc21 1 | 763
10 Jun 2016  #13
So basically the government can ban all the protests by the opposition under the pretext of terrorism ?

Basically yes. Although the whole Europe tends to do that now.

Let's look at one of the elements of the plan, law obliging the pre-paid telephone SIM cards to register them. What will it give? A possibility to trace the phone calls (or, at least, so called meta-data, which may be even worse - they know where you were, whom you were calling, they don't know the topic of the call) and connect them with specific persons, which was impossible up to now. Exactly what the communists were doing to fight with the opposition...

Will it help in any way to fight with terrorists? No. They will use either SIM cards registered for false data, or SIM cards from other countries, where it's not obligatory to register them. Or SIM cards from stolen mobile phones.

But when a normal citizen, who wants to be fully legal and registers his SIM card, does something that the government doesn't like (although it's not truly illegal - for example opens a Facebook profile criticizing the government) - then it will be not a problem to find a way to punish him.

And that's when the international community will respond.

But the other European governments do exactly the same... Not to mention the USA government, doing it already for a long time..
gumishu 11 | 5,012
10 Jun 2016  #14
nobody has to 'escape' from Poland -

sure - tell it to all the Polish scum that left Poland for UK to escape justice
jon357 63 | 14,124
10 Jun 2016  #15
Don't be silly. Those folks just stepped on a plane (and went through Polish passport control on the way!)

But the other European governments do exactly the same... Not to mention the USA government, doing it already for a long time..

No - as far as I know the USA do not make dawn raids on opposition parties.

law obliging the pre-paid telephone SIM cards to register them.

This is a particularly bizarre step - anyone who is actually a terrorist will just use a SIM bought and recharged elsewhere or evade the law in some other way.

Even some perfectly honest people will no longer use Polish pay-as-you-go.
gumishu 11 | 5,012
10 Jun 2016  #16
Even some perfectly honest people will no longer use Polish pay-as-you-go.

great - let them use contract mobiles - you are all a bunch of hysterics
jon357 63 | 14,124
10 Jun 2016  #17
let them use contract mobiles

With the new EU-wide cap on roaming charges people will just get a better deal from a country where you can just buy the cards freely without a creepy regime monitoring it - so basically another PiS failure.
Harry
10 Jun 2016  #18
law obliging the pre-paid telephone SIM cards to register them.

Poland had that law back in the 1990s and early 2000s. It was scrapped when the powers that be noticed Mr Donald Duck had several thousand telephone lines.
gumishu 11 | 5,012
10 Jun 2016  #19
With the new EU-wide cap on roaming charges people will just get a better deal from a country where you can just buy the cards freely without a creepy regime monitoring it - so basically another PiS failure.

Według danych z listopada 2013 r., które zebrała międzynarodowa organizacja operatorów sieci telefonii komórkowej GSM Association (GSMA), kartę pre-paid w Europie kupić można bez pokazywana dowodu osobistego m.in. w Portugalii, Irlandii, Szwecji, Finlandii, z kolei w takich krajach jak Hiszpania, Niemcy, Francja czy Włochy jest obowiązek rejestracji przy zakupie kart pre-paid.

translation - according to data from November 2013 .. a pre-paid card had to be registered in countries like Spain, Germany, France and Italy

these countries must really fail
dany_moussalli 13 | 263
10 Jun 2016  #20
Internet blocking on demand of Internal Security Agency
Proposed regulation provides for immediate blocking of the access to any Internet content on demand of the Chief of Internal Security Agency. Only after 5 days, a court will be supposed to verify whether the blocking demand was justified.

It reminds me of the Turkish government when it blocks Twitter, Youtube, and Facebook, in order to silence the voice of the opposition and disconnect them from the world in an attempt to hide the protests that were occurring on Taksim square.
gumishu 11 | 5,012
10 Jun 2016  #21
this is simple dany - opposition must be stifled with all possible means - Poland is now officially a fascist country - if you don't like leave or don't come - and well spread the word - maybe you will thus justify the forces of Light from Russia to stop fascism yet again as they did in the past
dany_moussalli 13 | 263
10 Jun 2016  #22
these countries must really fail

Not necessarily, but Jon demonstrated how terrorists can easily use other sources of telecommunication, so this law isn't effective in detecting terrorists, and might be used in the way that Kpc described:

when a normal citizen, who registers his SIM card, does something that the government doesn't like (although it's not truly illegal - for example opens a Facebook profile criticizing the government) - then it will be not a problem to find a way to punish him.

gumishu 11 | 5,012
10 Jun 2016  #23
when a normal citizen, who registers his SIM card...

why do you worry - do you live here - if so why don't you learn Polish and read Polish sources - and well as I told you Poland is now officially a fascist country - a truly despicable regime that opresses the masses - it's a matter of time when joint American-Russian forces liberate us only to discover mass-graves of the regime's opponents

so yeah if you don't live here stay away
kpc21 1 | 763
10 Jun 2016  #24
No - as far as I know the USA do not make dawn raids on opposition parties.

I am not telling about politics, but about spying normal people telling them bullsh*ts about fighting with terrorism.

With the new EU-wide cap on roaming charges people will just get a better deal from a country where you can just buy the cards freely without a creepy regime monitoring it - so basically another PiS failure.

Supposedly, this EU law is going to have some limitations (maybe about time), making it impossible using SIM cards from abroad permanently for these low prices.

Actually what would rather happen in such a situation would be people from counties like Germany, where mobile phone services are damn expensive (even now there are cases, where it's cheaper to use a German SIM card in roaming, outside Germany, than locally within Germany - due to these EU roaming regulations) massively buying Polish SIM cards.

Poland had that law back in the 1990s and early 2000s. It was scrapped when the powers that be noticed Mr Donald Duck had several thousand telephone lines.

Well to know. Do you mean Kaczyński or Tusk? One is "duck", the other is Donald, so it's not so easy to guess... Anyway, in the early 2000's neither Kaczyński nor Tusk were at the top.

Według danych z listopada 2013 r., ... przy zakupie kart pre-paid.

It's not totally true, in Germany you also don't have to show your ID to buy a SIM card... Although you have to register it to start using it. You can though just use false data for the registration.

Proposed regulation provides for immediate blocking of the access to any Internet content on demand of the Chief of Internal Security Agency.

Yes, it's much worse than these registration of pre-paid SIM cards... Just Internet censorship, like in China.... And, supposedly, it's also included in the project.

PO also wanted to introduce such a law - but they gave up after people's protests.
dany_moussalli 13 | 263
10 Jun 2016  #25
if you don't like leave

I will probably leave after graduating this year, it's just a shame to witness Poland's transformation to totalitarianism. When I first came here in September 2013, things were great, but now it's deteriorating.

maybe you will thus justify the forces of Light from Russia to stop fascism yet again as they did in the past

Is that your way of calling me Pro-Russian ?

a truly despicable regime that opresses the masses - it's a matter of time when joint American-Russian forces liberate us only to discover mass-graves of the regime's opponents

Your sarcasm isn't contributing to the discussion. I have lived before under the rule of a regime that had the exact same laws that PIS just passed, needless to say, they used all these laws to crush the opposition, and monitor and intimidate/arrest anyone who opposes them.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
10 Jun 2016  #26
it's just a shame to witness Poland's transformation to totalitarianism. When I first came here in September 2013, things were great, but now it's deteriorating.

If you are so clueless about what's going on here, better leave.
gumishu 11 | 5,012
10 Jun 2016  #27
Your sarcasm isn't contributing to the discussion.

my sarcasm is very much justified - learn Polish and talk to Polish people more - you will learn more about how totalitarian Poland has become and how opressive it is - leave for UK - UK is a fortress of democracy and free speech that will never fall - they will welcome you with open arms there - they are the most open society in the world - they like Polish workers so much that they even consider leaving the EU
dany_moussalli 13 | 263
10 Jun 2016  #28
learn Polish and talk to Polish people more

I am Polish :)

you will learn more about how totalitarian Poland has become and how opressive it is

This is still in process.. the laws that are being passed indicate that Poland is heading this way, we shall see :)

If you are so clueless about what's going on here, better leave.

Meddling with the Constitutional Tribunal work, passing laws that can be used to silence opposition, taking control of state media..
If you look at history, these are all alarming signs that suggest a shift towards totalitarianism
gumishu 11 | 5,012
10 Jun 2016  #29
I am Polish :)

by what standard - either you are hysterical or clueless - I don't think you speak passable Polish to be honest
Crow 137 | 7,632
10 Jun 2016  #30
anti-terrorist act? Could this be start of Poland`s abandoning NATO and EU?


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