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Samuel P. Huntington sees future of Poland outside of Slavic world

Crow 148 | 9,322
3 Apr 2011 #1
Samuel P. Huntington ignore Slavic world as unique civilization. In Huntington`s vision Poland is seen as exclusively part of Western world. It could sound as compliment to Poland if we forget on fact that Poland actually represent part of major European civilization which actually gave birth to the Western world. That is Danubian, Balkan-Baltic branch of Slavic world, back in time known as Sarmatian world. So, Huntington mistaking or simple ignoring facts. To begin with, Huntington`s definition of West is wrong. Why? Only he knows why. All in all, Huntington didn`t give chance to Slavic civilization in his observations. He giving itself right to once and for all `finish` with Slavic world. He don`t need Slavic world. In his visions Slavic world just have to be divide and split among `major civilizations`. We Slavs, as always, got lecture how we have to live and organize ourselves.

In the same time, Huntington excluded Orthodox Slavs from the West. How is this possible? Orthodox Serbs on Balkan still live in territory that was old core of Sarmatian Danubian world. Exactly here on Balkan, on the banks of Danube river, West was born and agriculture started to spread all around Europe. We again coming to the Huntington`s definition of West. Huntington ignoring facts, same way as German historical school (today blessed by EU) ignored facts about Slavs for thousands of years. Huntington underlined: `The Orthodox world`. It mean that Huntington giving itself right to decide in the name of Orthodox Slavs that for us biggest privilege represent fact that we are Orthodox then fact that we are Slavs. He maybe puts these two in conflict with purpose. Why in conflict? Only Huntington knows. But, i repeat, such a observation of Slavs, being them Orthodox, Catholic or Protestant simple isn`t correct. Slavs are Christians (Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants) but it is just one thing that makes us Slavs. There are even Muslim Slavs. Slavs who are atheists. Even still pagan Slavs. Still, we are all Slavs, children of Slavija and many of us feel that we belong to Slavic world that is one unique civilization. i wouldn`t elaborate it now but, many things make us Slavs, from our mentality, spirituality, history, heritage, language, culture, food, drinks, etc, etc things.

major civilizations of the world by Samuel P. Huntington:

civilization Poland

* Western civilization
* Latin America
* The Orthodox world
* The Eastern world
* The Muslim world
* Sub-Saharan Africa
Etc. for more data consult: The Clash of Civilizations - Samuel P. Huntington


In one other work of Samuel P. Huntington i founded something that is more closer to my own thinking of Slavic world and particularly Poland.

spot this >

Poland now rivals Britain as our closest ally in Europe because neither the Poles nor we want Poland again to be dominated by its historic enemies, Germany and Russia. The U.S. has also developed close relations with Ukraine, as well as Georgia and Uzbekistan, as counters to any expansion of Russian power.

read more: AMERICA IN THE WORLD, by Samuel P. Huntington

You all eventually heard for the idea of Medjumurje, in Polish `Międzymorze`.

Poland sea

Międzymorze on the map of Europe

Międzymorze (Polish pronunciation: [mjɛnd͡zɨˈmɔʐɛ]; [medjumurje in Serbian]; also known in English as Intermarum) was a plan, pursued after World War I by Józef Piłsudski, for a federation, under Poland's aegis, of Central and Eastern European countries. Invited to join the proposed federation were the Baltic states (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia), Finland, Belarus, Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia.

The Polish name Międzymorze, which means "Intersea" or "Between-seas," has been rendered into English, from the Latin, as "Intermarum" or "Intermarium." The proposed federation was meant to emulate the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, stretching from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea, that, from the end of the 16th century to the end of the 18th, had united the Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania.

for more read: Międzymorze

Międzymorze, superimposed on a map of world

If it could be possible that currently main USA problem in Europe represent eventual fear from the expansion of Russian influence, maybe, just maybe, we Slavs on the Balkan-Baltic line, can expect that USA support project of Intermarum (Międzymorze). It is even more interesting because there are clear indications that Russia won`t even try to prevent formation of such Slavic enterprise between three seas- Baltic, Black and Adriatic. We maybe talk of consensus between USA, Russia and Poland. That is also good news for Ukraine, Serbia and many other countries that could be involved in project of `Intermarum`- tampon zone between Russia and west of Europe.
sascha 1 | 826
3 Apr 2011 #2
Cultural America is under siege. And as the Soviet experience illustrates, ideology is a weak glue to hold together people otherwise lacking racial, ethnic, and cultural sources of community —— Who Are We? America's Great Debate, p. 12.

This is a quote I took from wiki. Looks like they still have no clue who they are. Bounty poeple? Those who didn't succeed in Europe?

What is his political background since he was under Carter administration?
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
5 Apr 2011 #3
Poland's situation is that it straddles the line, so to speak, because it is Roman Catholic and leans more to the West...Russia is occupied with rebuilding it's own country, and the USA right now is a mess, with maybe a few in the State Department understanding anything about Slavic history...In USA now, one must be a card carrying Zionist to have any influential position...Unfortunately, this attitude means great problems with any country or culture not connected to Jewish lobby...There are 'Arabists' in the State Dept. who wish for greater understanding of Arabic culture, but they are pushed to the side...In the current view of Washington DC, Slavs are an insignificant factor in any world affairs...Of course, they are wrong, but this is how it is today.

BTW, Huntingdon an intelligent man, but he has his limitations...Some consider him originator of phrase 'Clash of Civilization' used by neo-cons to forment war between Christian and Muslim cultures.
7 Apr 2011 #4
Crow, oh crow, crow, crow...

What's that thing with you and the slavophilia? Have you ever considered changing the place of your agitation? What about, don't you think you'll find much more followers out there?

Don't you see BTW that the whole Miedzymorze idea was about building a nice, firm wall between us and our 'Slavic Brothers'?
OP Crow 148 | 9,322
6 Oct 2018 #5

In his book Clash of Civilizations Samuel P. Huntington attached Poland to France and western Europe

What you people of this forum think of this?


Clash of Civilizations

I don`t like the idea. I say Huntington didn`t ask Poles. And in general speaking, Huntington mistaken. Divisions of world on global civilizations won`t look like this
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,715
6 Oct 2018 #6
I think slavs need nukes, lots and lots of nukes... and to stop fighting with each other. Then no one will **** with us. Till then slavs are our own worst enemy.
OP Crow 148 | 9,322
8 Oct 2018 #7
This Huntington was monster. Serbians will never accept stealing of Poland from Slavic world. When our Polish brethren rebel against western European domination we Serbs will stand side by side with Poles.

Sarmatija Mati, Sarmatija Besmrtna!
Miloslaw 9 | 3,038
8 Oct 2018 #8
Slavs biggest problem is some of their fellow Slavs and the Russians that pretend to be Slavs.....Poland is better off siding with USA and Western Europe than with their poor Slav losers.....
G (undercover)
8 Oct 2018 #9
I think If you want to divide the whole world into several major civilizations, he did it well. The western/orthodox division is too simplistic in some cases but still hard to come up with anything better.

You all eventually heard for the idea of Medjumurje, in Polish `Międzymorze`.

Międzymorze, If it ever becomes a reality, won't be a civilization... more like a regional block. Like Nordic countries Mediterranean countries etc.I think EU will eventually break into several such blocks.
Miloslaw 9 | 3,038
8 Oct 2018 #10
I think you are right,The EU will eventually split that will happen,nobody knows,but blocs of self interest is certainly a possibility.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,555
8 Oct 2018 #11
That's what the EU is, a bloc of self interest.

For all who dream of it's split up I would like to see a better alternative first...otherwise you will all end up as losers.

The most possible development I personally can foresee is a split up of the EU in a new core (the founders + the Baltics maybe) and a rest. Because there are countries who see exactly how much they need the EU for their self interest, for their economical survival.

I'm not sure countries like Poland or Hungary would fare better out on the margins again...
TheOther 5 | 3,711
9 Oct 2018 #12
I believe the EU is in desperate need of a "reset". Start all over again with some core countries as you say. Ireland, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, Luxembourg, Germany and Austria.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,555
9 Oct 2018 #13
Could very well happen in a not so far future...
OP Crow 148 | 9,322
9 Oct 2018 #14
I think If you want to divide the whole world into several major civilizations, he did it well.

He did it rather `one sided`, selfishly. Look how he grouping so called West, while segmenting Asia. Look how he ignored Slavic world and divided it over Catholic/Orthodox line. Plus, he is a liar. We all know that US won`t give up from California and control of Panama`s Gulf.

Most importantly for us, Slavs in Europe, why do you think that division of Slavs over religious lines can work in modern time? Do you know what price Serbs had to pay and still paying because of Vatican`s relentless desire to expand (plus Turkish Islamic invasion happened)? Ethic Serbs were split over religious lines and formation of new nations initiated. Process of segmentation of Serbs was bloody and violent, where millions of ethnic Serbs, no matter religious provenance, paid with life.

Now imagine that somebody wants to apply Huntington`s division onto the Slavic Poland. Poles and all Slavs peacefully to accept `eternal` loss of Poland to non-Slavs? I say `eternally` because when global civilizations are formed, that`s it. Its a deal for World Order at least for next few 100 years and during that time, Poland will be assimilated entirely.

What I want to tell you, Huntington`s division may initiate great turmoils within Poland and within entire Slavic world. In fact, such a division may turn eastern Europe in a wast Civil War-zone. So, I stand on position that Slavs won`t accept division over religious lines and it is Vatican now that would be forced to change approach. I don`t know, something can be offered to Pope- unity of Christianity, for example, where Pope can symbolically dominate over all Christians.

Poland is better off siding with USA and Western Europe than with their poor Slav losers.....

You know that situation dramatically changes. Neither is US economy perfect, neither are Slavic economies week. Then speaking in proportions of emerging global civilizations, you know what it means to join in such a conglomerate? It means to give up from old values entirely and adopt to new one. Are you ready to do so? Sure, global changes would expose all of us to influences that were not imaginable in past but still, within eventual Slavic civilization, preferable, in some Central European conglomerate of countries, Poland and Poles are at home. Its Polish culture. Outside of it is foreign world.

No matter where we live we would have to encounter many new people, of different background. One who is a Pole will have enough troubles in Poland within Central European civilization but, imagine level of cultural, multi-ethnic, racial and other problems within some other culture, non-Slavic and non-Polish.

So don`t give up. Don`t think how is Poland destined to be merged with Russians. Merge within Central Europe. Sure, if that ever ever become choice and if world powers just on themselves decide how would world look like. But that is why we talk. Let our voice be heard. We may change something or we may not but, we tried. It must be clear that people of Central Europe (and surrounding regions) in process of world globalization desire to have their own civilization. Don`t say you are against it.

Międzymorze, If it ever becomes a reality, won't be a civilization... more like a regional block.

On the short run, yes, you are right. I also see things that way. But on the long run, Międzymorze will must join in club of emerging global civilizations on its own or just would be divided among powers and its territories attached to some others.

I believe the EU is in desperate need of a "reset". Start all over again with some core countries as you say

There are even signs that same as Israel, Germany and Austria may join in Central European civilization, while France can become core of new civilization- I think of it under working title `Mediterranean civilization`. So, Germany and Israel may find themselves united within one and same country. Maybe even Turkey join.

Those could be great ``surprises`` to us who dream to have Central European civilization. It may become kind of compromise.
OP Crow 148 | 9,322
10 Oct 2018 #15
Speaking in strategical terms, fate of Poland is already sealed. It won`t be as Huntington suggested. It can`t be that way because Lusatia can`t be isolated from rest of the Slavic Central Europe and Slavic world in general. And there are many indications that announcing dissolution of Germany and independence of Lusatia. So, by analogy, if Lusatia goes in Central Europe, Poland also goes in Central Europe. Duda`s trickery won`t set Poland in hands of menacing western Europe and monstrous France. Not to say that, no matter situation around Lusatia, Poles wouldn`t allow treachery to happen. Poles would themselves take care of and secure position of Poland as leading country in Central European Civilization.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,555
10 Oct 2018 #16
And there are many indications that announcing dissolution of Germany and independence of Lusatia.

I hope Prussia will be reborn independent too again...won't that be a blast! :)
OP Crow 148 | 9,322
10 Oct 2018 #17
As Slavic state? I would like that

I now begins to understand some processes. They are clear to me when put events in context of Huntington`s contemplation on `Clash of civilizations`. Some states will be dissolved and even many new states will emerge in Europe in next 20-30 years. Its all just prelude for formation of global civilizations. Do you agree?

Seams that Germany with its work against Yugoslavia and Serbia unlocked Pandora`s box.
OP Crow 148 | 9,322
12 Oct 2018 #18
No, won`t be as Huntington wanted for Poland, if Russia can help. Don`t worry Poles

>>> BREAKING: Putin Orders Russia's Strategic Nuclear Force To Test Its Nukes In Large-Scale Drills >>>

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