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Referendum in Poland about so called refugees.


NocyMrok
22 Jan 2016 #1
What are your insights about P. Kukiz idea of nationwide referendum about the current refugee crisis and Poles voting if those should or should not be allowed into our territory.?

I'm mostly interested in opinions of Poles but foreigners and even "wannabe Poles" (think this term will soon become our local PF's slang :)) are all welcome as long as their replies are genuine.

My opinion on this is as strongly I would like to see that happening I'm afraid it would create additional issues on the poland-eu line. IMHO that is a very simple and very democratic way for citizens to voice their opinion and actually involve in the shaping of the country process but as we all know EU is about the democracy ONLY if it works in the favour of the Clique and that sadly wouldn't be the case this time.
Dougpol1 33 | 3,274
22 Jan 2016 #2
What are your insights about P. Kukiz idea of nationwide referendum about the current refugee crisis and Poles voting if those should or should not be allowed into our territory.?

No need for a referundum. Poland will take the 7,000, and then retreat back into it's insular stance of "I'm all right Jack."

But actually there are quite a few Middle East gentlemen already here in Tri-City. They are not Turks either, so a lot of this "there will be NO immigration" is populism, and it would be pretty hard for Poland as a member of the EU to actually deny people entry if they have a genuine desire to do business here. There is a consumer need after all.

My answer is that, within reason, there should be a limited "quota", for there is plenty of room for enterprise, and at 38 million the country is underpopulated by at least 25 per cent for land mass.
mafketis 21 | 7,479
22 Jan 2016 #3
I think it's a good idea, the policy of Merkel et al is simply unworkable and the more everyday citizens make it clear they're not going to stand for it then the sooner it can be stopped.

Also how did Kukiz come up with a good idea? Did somebody supply him with it?
OP NocyMrok
22 Jan 2016 #4
No need for a referundum.

I think similar. No need for referendum. Discussion about Poland was an enough of the interference already. Referendum would create issues that EU regime would use as an excuse to not focus on much more important problems. Poland shouldn't accept the amount of asylum seekers Germany is forcing on us though. New solution should be thought out in the Regime's parliament and it should be a compromise between all member countries.
Dougpol1 33 | 3,274
22 Jan 2016 #5
New solution should be thought out in the Regime's parliament and it should be a compromise between all member countries.

Absolutely. In the meantime...........
The latest videos show people dying on the crossings to Greece. Now - why would they put their children in such mortal danger?
Poland has to refrain from past nationalist posturing, and announce that yes, they will contribute to the camps in Southern Europe, and yes, that they are prepared to meet their humanitarian responsibilities, while retaining sovereign rights to their own "quotas".

All of Poland is better than that fat **** Orban, and it's time to show the world renowned class of Polish gentility.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
22 Jan 2016 #6
What are your insights about P. Kukiz idea of nationwide referendum about the current refugee crisis and Poles voting if those should or should not be allowed into our territory.?

It's a waste of time. The voters made their feelings clear on the issue, as PiS ran on a clear xenophobic anti-refugee platform.

Still, we should take them. The EU will pay, and when the EU cash runs out, they'll vanish to Germany, France or Calais anyway. We look good, but in reality, a blind eye can be turned. And of course, we absolutely shouldn't waste our time patrolling the Western border - if they want to go, they can go.

Having said that, Poland missed a golden chance here - we should have sent people to Greece and picked out doctors and other highly skilled people and offered them a 3 year work/residence permit without any restrictions. No-one wants the morons that threw water and food away, no-one wants the morons that get violent when they don't get what they want - but we do want the refugees that can help us.
nothanks - | 640
23 Jan 2016 #7
I would support it. Show the World how Poles feel so this cannot be blamed on some so-called extreme Government decision.

The EU will pay, and when the EU cash runs out, they'll vanish to Germany, France or Calais anyway.

In principle I completely agree. But we can't backstab our allies. We should sit back and stay quiet.
johnny reb 18 | 3,798
23 Jan 2016 #8
It has been said many times before here but I will repeat it again.

IF Poland was forced to take Refugee FAMILIES in fear of their lives because they were Christian......Welcome.
If they were single men of fighting age (high risk), sorry go back and pick up a gun and fight for your liberation.
If you are from Africa and an economic refugee and just looking for a better life, sorry we have our own to take care of first.

If they were told Poland is a Christian country and that they will have to respect it as that.
If you don't want to work or learn the Polish language, sorry we don't want burdens (dead weight) to our country.
Understand if a Polish woman approaches you with an uncovered face it doesn't mean she wants to bang you.
If you have an arrest record or fake documents, we don't want you.


So there are so many variables to welcoming people with such a strange culture as your new neighbors that it isn't just a yes or no vote.

I am sure it would be a yes IF common sense criteria was met first.
That's my opinion and thank you for letting me post it.
Wroclaw1010 3 | 91
23 Jan 2016 #9
No need for a referundum

Exactly! Every Tom, Dick and Harry know what the outcome will be, so why waste time and resources on something of that nature?

Poland shouldn't accept the amount of asylum seekers Germany is forcing on us though.

Might is right ;) Poland should strike the flag and take inn a reasonable number else the external pressure will not stop. However, taking the exact number Germany has proposed will make Poland look like shot takers from the Germans.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
23 Jan 2016 #10
Referendum should be held in all 28 EU countries. I know that Junker and his clique don't want to ask Europeans. If no referendum, all migrants should be sent to Germany! Angela has invited them so let her and Germany take care of situation.

I was and I am still in favor of helping genuine -(but how to distinguish them???) war refugees but am 100% against current situation, when at least half of the 3rd world are invading Europe, among whom a lot of criminals, (potential) terrorists, rapists, thieves, bums... ... etc etc ... In Germany, the situation is getting tenser and tenser every day and I would be very surprised if Angela could survivre till end of 2016 but it is their and her problem. The other 27 countries don't have to clean up Angela's mess....
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,671
23 Jan 2016 #11
" Referendum should be held in all 28 EU countries. "

what even in countries with no history of referenda? That is not about to happen is it?
Also why do you call her 'Angela'? Surely 'Merkel' would be more suitable for someone in her position? (what I am saying is, would you refer to a male pres. as say, John? No you wouldn't .
Ironside 49 | 9,915
23 Jan 2016 #12
What are your insights about P. Kukiz idea of nationwide referendum about the current refugee crisis and Poles voting if those should or should not be allowed into our territory.?

A very costly enterprise which will achieve very little. The same result would bring a cleaver and skillful navigation of the EU diplomacy by the Polish government.

Kukiz displays all his naiveté in this proposal. Those people in the EU and Brussels don't care about democrat or referendum, they proved before that they care about brining unruly people into line, telling them to vote again and again till they and their paymasters were pleased with the result.
Dougpol1 33 | 3,274
23 Jan 2016 #13
Pretty much correct. Except that just some of the time the Eurocrats are right, and as elected humanitarians, they have to be publicly acccountable as actually doing something positive. Also known as taking action one way or the other (unlike Polish politicians - who just wash their hands of the whole business - conveniently forgetting their forefathers' desperate straits of fleeing mass murder on any Polish town square - at any time at all - a small local crisis referred by historians as the Second World War)

These politicians' fathers should be ashamed of their offspring and disown them. I know I would. Although InPolska and others would wish it away, over a million refugees are right here, right now,

Some demographic experts have stated that Europe is underpopulated by 75 million - so 2 million odd human beings shouldn't be a problem in the long term if you believe that (debatable) argument.

So no need for a referundum. Just negotiation and fair play, and less nationalist bombast. As I said, Poland is not Hungarian Scum.
dolnoslask
23 Jan 2016 #14
"their forefathers' desperate straits of fleeing mass murder on any Polish town square" Dougpo no foreign nation ever helped the poles, last time they used us to fill their air forces and armies and then sold us down the river in Yalta , we don't need to be told what to do , and after all your time in Poland you know how stubborn we are.

Stuff outside colonialist influence. history tells they have only caused bloodshed and pain in Poland.

If other people have problems in their own countries (75% of these migrants are male) the they should fight for their own country , not run away and expect everyone else to feather their nests.,
Wroclaw1010 3 | 91
23 Jan 2016 #15
rules of abrogation

I know what Naskh is and I am in no way trying to compare the two. I just pointed out to him that he is saying is in the bible too.

Let's not go off topic ;)
dolnoslask
23 Jan 2016 #16
Wroclaw1010 I understand lets stay with the topic sorry
mafketis 21 | 7,479
23 Jan 2016 #17
This just in: bayernkurier.de/ausland/9630-die-lawine-kommt-ins-rollen

There are currently twenty times more people crossing the Aegean than this time last year. Can you imagine what will be happening in March? May? The Summer?

I've said all along that for every migrant taken in with no vetting there are twenty more in the wings waiting. I may have been too conservative....
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
23 Jan 2016 #18
There are currently twenty times more people crossing the Aegean than this time last year.

To be fair, that's the newspaper of the CSU, and they might be using it to try and pressure the CDU. It's nothing strange for them to use such rhetoric, and it might be intended as a warning sign to Merkel that they'll unilaterally close the border with Austria if the Federal Government doesn't act.

I've said all along that for every migrant taken in with no vetting there are twenty more in the wings waiting

I don't disagree with you. It was obvious that as soon as word spread that Germany was willing to take in anyone that claimed to be from a certain place, people would just descend en masse on Greece and onwards.

Could be a good bet on whether Germany will still be in Schengen by this time next year. I've already read one article about how the Poles are controlling the city border in Frankfurt/Słubice on an almost full time basis.
Sparks11 - | 335
24 Jan 2016 #19
Anyone who uses the arguement that Poland need to take in Tunisian immigrants because some Poles ended up in Iran 75 years ago is on the same level as PiS claiming the Germans can't be trusted because of WWII (not that you should ever trust the Deutschen).
InPolska 11 | 1,821
24 Jan 2016 #20
is there a war in Tunisia so Tunisians are to come to Poland? Que nenni! ;). These days, they are having riots in cities because people are fed up with their economic situation but it is not a war. But anyway, nobody wants to come to Poland so if any migrant, they won't stay very long
Levi 12 | 450
24 Jan 2016 #21
is there a war in Tunisia so Tunisians are to come to Poland?

No. Actually Tunisia nowadays is much more peaceful (and the only democracy) of any North African country. Any illegal immigrant from Tunisia is a illegal economic immigrant.

It is pathetic how BBC/CNN call any illegal immigrant as "Refugee" nowadays.

They are not Turks either, so a lot of this "there will be NO immigration" is populism,

Oh Look, another turkish telling what Poland and Poles can or cannot do.

It is funny indeed to see how you and the other turks of Polish Forums are afraid of the referendum.

My answer is that, within reason, there should be a limited "quota", for there is plenty of room for enterprise, and at 38 million the country is underpopulated by at least 25 per cent for land mass.

So besides you, a turkish, want to decide what Poland can or cannot do, you also want Poland to accept almost 10 Million (!!!) of "Refugees" from an Alien culture and transform Warsaw in another Koln, with woman being abused on the streets? Just because in your opinion (as a turkish) there is land in Poland for your people?

Is this some kind of stand up comedy?
mafketis 21 | 7,479
24 Jan 2016 #22
A referendum is a good idea as a symbolic statement that might make it through the thick heads of EU leaders that they are actively working against the wishes and interests of the electorate. (They clearly don't care about European citizens' interests, but voting might get through to them).

Latests polls are that only about 10% of the German public want the current policy to continue but Merkel seems to have the voters in her αss as the Poles say.
InPolska 11 | 1,821
24 Jan 2016 #23
In oder to show a little bit of democracy, the EU should have organized a referendum at the European level but most of us are aware that the EU with their overpaid self claimed "commissaires" is not a democratic entity. Were Junker, Barroso, Tusk and consorts elected???? "Que nenni", they were appointed because of their friends. It never has been and shall never be democratic. Several peoples had their votes confiscated, the Irish (who had to vote several times till they voted "right", the Dutch whose vote aainst the constition was cancelled and the French who voted by 55% against the (EU) constitution in 2005 but which Sarkozy got voted by Parliament in 2007 (something the French voters won't forget).

The original "EU" was a great idea in 1957 when Germany and France decided to create a union and it was going very well with the 4 countries which joined (Belgium, Italy, the Netherlands and Luxembourg) but unfortunately the EU as most of us know us (at least those living in the EU ;)) is the worst thing that could ever happen to Europe. Maybe thanks to Merkel, EU will collapse very soon...
TheOther 5 | 3,890
25 Jan 2016 #24
Germany and France decided to create a union and it was going very well with the 4 countries which joined (Belgium, Italy, the Netherlands and Luxembourg)

That's the idea behind the concept of the core/periphery EU that came up a few years ago.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
26 Jan 2016 #25
Meanwhile in Sweden, a "refugee" killed a social worker, perhaps the soup was too salty or he was offended in some way...

wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1356,title,Uchodzca-pchnal-nozem-22-letnia-pracownice-osrodka-dla-uchodzcow-w-Szwecji-Kobieta-nie-zyje,wid,18124802,wiadomosc.html
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
26 Jan 2016 #26
Madness. I think we're going to see a lot more of it - at least, until governments make it crystal clear that a single offence and you're deported. Still, you should be using the word migrant and not refugee - we all know that many of them aren't genuine refugees.

On a related note, there's more warnings about Schengen. I'm almost certain that we'll see permanent border controls on the PL/D border within a few months if Merkel doesn't get a grip of the situation.
OP NocyMrok
26 Jan 2016 #27
I'm almost certain that we'll see permanent border controls on the PL/D border within a few months if Merkel doesn't get a grip of the situation

And what is the solution to this proposed by Eurocratic pro democracy Regime? They want to create some kind of European Border Guard and one of paragraphs of the proposed legislation states euro-Guards can be placed on the border of the member country even if the country itself objects. How is this any good. How is this with principal rules of the EU? How come it suddenly isn't against the sovereignity of that country? EU in its current shape is nothing else but USSR v2.0. We are very close to EU coming up with an idea that an army of one country can be send into territory of another even if it objects. All to defend interests of the Clique.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,771
26 Jan 2016 #28
Actually, it makes a lot of sense. While countries such as Poland spend a lot of money on securing the external frontier, we see countries such as Greece completely ignoring their obligations to secure the Schengen border. That's why if they want to be in Schengen, they need to get over their pride and accept that the defence of Schengen is in all of our interests. Greece has been consistently refusing to accept external help even when it's obvious that they can't cope - so it's in all of our interests to get them to comply.

If they don't like it, they're free to leave. I find it to be completely absurd that Polish border guards are spending nights in the forests on the border while the Greeks are sitting back and doing nothing.
teraz Polska!
26 Jan 2016 #29
Poland need to implement border control on PL/GER border asap.These animals must be kept in Germany or they will soon start infiltrating into Poland to steal,rape and murder.
OP NocyMrok
26 Jan 2016 #30
Actually, it makes a lot of sense.

It does but not with the part in bold. That part is simply ridiculous. Poland, Sweden and one more country already objected.

PiS is going to introduce new legislation regarding expats in the 2nd quarter of this year. Don't know much about it yet but it will cover Asian part of Russia and will allow descendants of repatriated Poles to come back home. Great.


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