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Poland's post-election political scene


OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
12 Apr 2017 #2,491
officers are liars

Red-tainted ones are for sure. The Soviet system was entirely based on lies and disinformation, and Putin is perpetuating that skewed Stalinesque heritage. That's why the PiS narration is so refreshing and uplifting -- truth, honesty and decency all the way.
jon357 66 | 17,068
12 Apr 2017 #2,492
Red-tainted ones are for sure

Any proof of that Po, or just another of your warped preoccupations?

That's why the PiS narration is so refreshing and uplifting

Neither refreshing nor in any sense uplifting - basically the dark politics of the 1930s. You may consider media censorship, an attack on constitutional democracy, open racism and misogyny to be

refreshing and uplifting

however most people do not.

truth, honesty and decency

Given that PiS politicians very frequently lie and as we've seen with the rampant corruption around minister Macierewicz's little friend Misiewicz this week they are in no sense decent.

And yes, they've made Poland an international laughing-stock, as they did during their last brief administration.
jon357 66 | 17,068
13 Apr 2017 #2,493
generals

If anyone's interested in what Po has posted (and why - as usual there's a large element of disingenuity in his post) this article sheds some light:

"Statistics show that around 90 percent of Poland's top military brass have either been replaced or left of their own accord amid an overhaul launched by Defence Minister Antoni Macierewicz after his rightwing Law and Justice (PiS) party took power in October 2015."

and:

"There are concerns among allies about the predictability of the minister," the Warsaw-based analyst told AFP. "Macierewicz has a terrible reputation. He has a hard time meeting his counterparts."

au.news.yahoo/world/a/35014390/as-nato-moves-in-troops-reforms-hit-polands-military-hard/#page1
Ironside 50 | 10,939
13 Apr 2017 #2,494
Statistics show that around 90 percent of Poland's top military brass have either been replaced or left of their own ...

That is actually a very good decision if that is a conscious decision to clean out the officer crops from the soviet layabouts and surplus generals taking money for being useless pen pushers. Good job Macierewicz.

"There are concerns among allies"
Those unspecified concerns are just news pulled out from someone a...! I don't believe for a moment that any serious official in those NATO countries that count, had any thing to say on the issue either off the record or officially.

Read your link. As I have thought, an article written by Poles ( biased) all those experts are either Poles connected to the previous political party or one Jan Techau a German experts on the European Union integration and foreign policy, transatlantic affairs, and German foreign and security policy.

Connected to The American Academy in Berlin which is in fact founded by grand from Germany and American Germans is a lobbing stratagem of the German state. Kind of a window into USA.

The fact that some German experts in the accord with some German lackeys in Poland are firmly anti-PiS is nothing new. That is a propaganda war at it finest.

If you want to know what's what - ask uncle Ironside.
jon357 66 | 17,068
13 Apr 2017 #2,495
the officer crops from the soviet layabouts and surplus generals

Familiar with the current state of the army top brass and the reasons so many have quit in disgust, are you?

Those unspecified concerns are just news pulled out from someone a...!

That, I-S, is the opposite of the truth. Not unusual of you to attack experts whose view is more up-to-date, balanced and accurate than yours.

some German lackeys in Poland

You mean Poles who disagree with your ill-informed point of view...

How much time have you spent here in Poland over the last twenty or thirty years anyway? Especially since you think that the current army general staff are:

soviet layabouts and surplus generals taking money for being useless pen pushers

Ironside 50 | 10,939
13 Apr 2017 #2,496
That is your thing. Trying to either ridicule or discredit uncle Ironside. Yet you have miserably failed to actually debunk his arguments or better still to point out which of his points if any is not factual in your opinion.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Apr 2017 #2,497
international laughing-stock

He how laughs last laughs best. When the towelhead terrorists effectviely take over the so-called "progressive" countries who so generously welcomed them, it won't be Višehrad that will be weeping.
Harry
13 Apr 2017 #2,498
No matter how "skilled" they may appear and how glib their narration is, one can never trust them 100%. That Soviet residue remains forever.

You mean in the same way as people who volunteered to prosecute all those who fought for Poland to no longer be a Soviet-dominated vassal state, such as The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski?

Any proof of that Po, or just another of your warped preoccupations?

You mean such as a statement from one of those generals' twin brother such as the one we have from the late (and unlamented) brother of The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski?

You may consider media censorship, an attack on constitutional democracy, open racism and misogyny to be

He considers it to be even better than the good old days in the 1970s (then women were not clearly marked out as second-class citizens who should be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen).
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Apr 2017 #2,499
military brass have either been replaced

To which every decent patriotic Pole says. GOOD RIDDANCE!
Ziemowit 13 | 4,282
13 Apr 2017 #2,500
every decent patriotic Pole says

Do you think that Harry and jon357 are patriotic Poles?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Apr 2017 #2,501
Chairman Kaczynski

If he was ever in the PZPR like Geremek, Kuroń, Balcerowicz, Kwaśniewski, Rzepliński and all the top military brass, he should definitely not be allowed to perform any public fucntion. The above-mentioned creeps who were card-carrying commies should have had a 10-year ban on holding public office. Instead they were allowed to create PRL-2, a hotch-potch of anarcho-leftist KOR-ites, ex-commies and fellow travellers calling themelves III RP. Luckily the cushy-comfy nest they built for themselves is now coming undone. At long last!
Harry
13 Apr 2017 #2,502
The above-mentioned creeps who were card-carrying commies should have had a 10-year ban on holding public office.

If Poles had agreed with your American views, that would have happened. Instead Poles voted for all of those people which you mention who held public office (or in one case voted for those who appointed him). Why do you have so much trouble accepting democracy?

PRL-2

As shown by many government actions, and your own glee about the return to the good old days under the First Secretary of the Party, we have only very recently entered the PRL-2.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Apr 2017 #2,503
only very recently

Absolutely not. PRL-2 was spawned at the round table and came to life during Wałęsa's 1992 parliamentary coup that destroyed all semblance of democreacy. Henfceforth all the shots were to be called and most of the perks and privileges enjoyed by by the KOR-PZPR core group and the stooges and flunkies they admitted to their bandwagon. Weaned on the world's best propagandists, Uncle Joe & Company, they effectively pulled the wool over the eyes of patriotic Cahtolic Poland and through their slick and glib rhetoric managed to rule for a quarter of a century. But all things end, and Michnikite rule is disintegrating apace. Even Soros' handouts cannot save it.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Apr 2017 #2,504
@Ziemowit

Harry and jon357 are patriotic Poles?

They're both foreigners who have absolutely no feel for the country and despise its people and their indigenous traditions, values, cuisine, religion and all the rest. Instead they try to impose their limey anarcho-leftist ways on the Polish nation.
jon357 66 | 17,068
13 Apr 2017 #2,505
Poles voted for all of those people which you mention

Indeed. He seems to think that only politicians he likes should be allowed to stand for office.

Why do you have so much trouble accepting democracy?

Because he's made it clear that he despises Poland's democracy tradition and prefers overt fascism.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
13 Apr 2017 #2,506
If Poles had agreed with your American views,

Don't be absurd?

Instead Poles voted for

For the democracy to work society needs to have a freely available info and independent or at last competitive news agencies to provide people with different and competitive points of view. Nothing like that existed in Poland. Commie scumbags put some new paint on their faces and pretended to be something else but the care and their handle on most things that counts remained the same.

In fact Poles have had a very limited choice in that matter and none as to who is gonna be a top brass in the army, the police and the like and who is gonna be a judge.

If the act of voting would define a democracy and freedom then you would have to say that commies countries had been democratic as well. After all they were having elections too.

As shown by many government actions, and your own glee about the return to the good old days under the First Secretary of the Party, we have only very recently entered the PRL-2.

Name one such a action! I dare you!
cms 9 | 1,271
13 Apr 2017 #2,507
How about the renationalization of Pekao and Alior to the detriment of its depositors and the subsequent stufffing of their boards with people who's only qualification is that they are loyal party members. That could have happened in 1947 and now it's happening in 2017.

Just one of many examples but that happens to be top of my mind this afternoon as I am doing business with the guys.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Apr 2017 #2,508
many examples

How aboiut the sell-out of most Polish assets for peanuts in exchange for hefty under-the-table kickbacks? How about turning Poland into a neo-colonial country of foriign banks, retail chains, pharmaceutical giants and other Smithfields? That was the work of the roundtable clique lining their own pockets at the nation's expense.
jon357 66 | 17,068
13 Apr 2017 #2,509
That could have happened in 1947 and now it's happening in 2017.

Thats exactly what they want of course, as part of their National Socialism and of course doomed to disaster.
Harry
13 Apr 2017 #2,510
They're both foreigners

Jon certainly isn't. And like him, I've got the right to vote here. Which way are you planning to vote at the upcoming election.

He seems to think that only politicians he likes should be allowed to stand for office.

Are you sure he even thinks that democracy is a good thing for Poland? His favourite time in Poland was the commie dictatorship and he calls the democratic fall of a minority government a "coup".

Name one such a action! I dare you!

For a start there is the appointing of people to jobs they are entirely unqualified for on the basis purely of their loyalty to the Party, as mentioned above. Then there is their taking over of the criminal justice system. And of course there's the fact that TVP has now become TVPiS where the 'news' is reinvented to suit whatever the First Secretary of the Party, the Dear Leader Chairman Kaczyski, wants it to be and PIS's staff get to decide who does and does not get to appear on Telewizji 'Polska'.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
13 Apr 2017 #2,511
the appointing of people to jobs they are entirely unqualified for

All that you said had been a standard practise of all parties in power for the last 30 years including PO. Nothing new there Harry. Suddenly all that is a threat, or whatnot... that lame response..
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Apr 2017 #2,512
doomed to disaster

The only thing doomed to oblivion is the anarcho-leftist-libertine set-up being euphemsiticlaly passed off as "liberal democracy", except you don't know it yet. You remind one of the people who thouhgt after the dust of WW1 had settled, the monarchies would rebuild from wartime destruction and carry on. But they didn't. Mainly republics replaced the old monarchies. Everything ends. Instead of liberal dmeocracy with its anarcho-leftist utopianism,PC nonsense, social engineering, radiclaism, multi-culti, multi-sexy, gender, anti-clericalism, etc. conservative democracy is coming to the fore. It is a truer democracy becuase it thinks of the nation as a whole not a caste of elitists. It promotes what has been tried and tested, avoids change for the sake of change and only such changes that are an actual improvement. And this is happening not only in Poland but world-wide. Everywhere the leftist-liberal heresy is being gradually supplanted by sensible conservative thinking. The Schultzes, Timmermanses, Tusks, Petrus, Michniks, Obamas and Clintons are all has-beens and prime canidates for the rubbish heap of history.
jon357 66 | 17,068
13 Apr 2017 #2,513
liberal dmeocracy with its anarcho-leftist utopianism,PC nonsense, social engineering, radiclaism, multi-culti, multi-sexy, gender, anti-clericalism,

heresy

Just admit it Po, you prefer fascism...
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Apr 2017 #2,514
you prefer

You prefer anarcho-libertinism but call it "liberal democracy". The only true democracy is conservative democracy. Your social engineering only serves marxist socialism, national socialism, communism, social democracy and of course your beloved PC dictatorship. ALL ARE ON THE WAY OUT AND GOOD RIDDANCE! If you disagree, that only shows you have failed to see the writing on the wall.
jon357 66 | 17,068
13 Apr 2017 #2,515
You prefer anarcho-libertinism but call it "liberal democracy".

So yes, you do prefer fascism but are too afraid to admit it outright.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Apr 2017 #2,516
Jon certainly isn't

You are both wogs, aliens, foreigners, outsiders, intruders, clueless wannabes, etc. and no scrap of paper can prove otherwise. To be Polish one must be a native speaker of Polish and prefer speaking Polish to Anglo-jabber, feel Polish patriotism and religiosity, get a lump in the throat when "Jezszce Polska..." is sung, also at the sight of the crowned white eagle and Polish flag. Also be concerned first and foremost about Poland's national interests, not about the exploiters who have tried to turn Poland into a neo-colonial entity, about the welfare of the entire nation not jsut some self-styled elitist caste. Let's see how many agree or disagree!
jon357 66 | 17,068
13 Apr 2017 #2,517
"wogs"

Oh dear. And you still won't admit that you like fascism, despite so many of your posts pointing firmly to that.

no scrap of paper

The one that you aren't eligible for...

Nice to see I was right that the Misiewicz affair is just the tip of the iceberg about the PiS corrupt appointments scandal. Two more cases came to light again today and yes, one of them just happened to be a young friend of 'minister' Macierewicz....
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Apr 2017 #2,518
fascism

Why should anyone not Italian like fascism. It was made to order to promote Italian nationalism, and Mussolini fancied himself an heir to the Roman Emperors (as did Ceauşescu BTW). But what does that totally foreign concept have to do with Poland?
jon357 66 | 17,068
13 Apr 2017 #2,519
Why should anyone not Italian like fascism

Don't be disingenuous Po. Fascism's come a long way since its origin and exists in various forms - and certainly exists here in Poland.

And let's face it, you like fascism.

totally foreign concept

Like Middle Eastern religions?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 Apr 2017 #2,520
certainly exists here in Poland

You mean in POO? They stormed the Sejm, occupied the speakers stand, roughed up MPS, prevented people praying at the graves of loved ones -- very fascistic sorts of things. They've even got their own Führer -- Donald von Tusk.

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