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Poland's post-election political scene


delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
14 May 2016 #1,951
(I'm not sure about the UK because the system seems to be a complicated mess and the more descritpions I read the less coherence there seems to be).

The UK has four different systems, one of which is completely different to the others :D But it's probably the most logical of them all when you actually get to grips with it - it allows people to follow quite a personalised path of learning without mandating much.

Being American I'm not sure on the logic of the whole matura/abitur/le bac system though, why isn't a diploma enough?

Never quite seen the sense myself as well, if I may be honest. The American way of doing things seems to make much more sense, and the university way of doing things is vastly superior in terms of student choice. I'm still jealous to this day of friends that were able to attend a Liberal Arts programme for the fact that they really got to explore different fields.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 May 2016 #1,952
appalling waste of time and demotivating

I believe forcing pupils specialising in the humanities to study maths and science is a demotivating waste of time. OK for computer nerds but not for linguists, writers, culture buffs, artists and other creative types.
Dougpol1 32 | 3,245
14 May 2016 #1,953
I believe forcing pupils specialising in the humanities to study maths and science is a demotivating waste of time.

Yes - that too :). Let them specialise - and in Britain students can - unless Delph knows something I don't.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
14 May 2016 #1,954
learn Polish for Matura

Sure, let's do away with English as a subject in the US and UK. They speak English at home and on the street so why botehr teaching it to 'em in school!?

the fact is that every educated peson regardless of their speciality should be fluent in their native tongue. Already the Platformer educational system has turned out half a generation of troglodytes weaned on rap, action films and computer games who are barely able to articulate their thoughts (if they have any) in standard Polish.

threatening Europe's most precious forest.

And just leave the birch-bark-beetle infested stands alone so the plague can spread to unaffected parts of the woodland, right? That will make the EC happy and prompt them to get off Poland's back. A true stroke of genius even by your troglodytic standards!

BTW, not travelling out Belarus way this weekend for another interesting liaison? Hey, you can tell folks you wanted to see PiS's destruciton of the Białowieża World Heritage Site with your own eyes. It's in that general area making this a highly plausible alibi.
kondzior 12 | 1,200
14 May 2016 #1,955
It's a lot of nonsense made up on the spot, as witnessed by the way that several ministers were speaking off the cuff and others were relying on handwritten notes.

They said that the first charges were already brought for prosecution. Mind you, I'm not certain if most of those claims are not just hot air that will end just like the previous gubmint's excellent attempt to put Ziobro in front of the state tribunal, but we'll see.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
14 May 2016 #1,956
They said that the first charges were already brought for prosecution.

But they would. It's all about revenge, which is why Ziobro is planning to reform the court system so that it can be packed with PiS judges that are under political control.

Mind you, I'm not certain if most of those claims are not just hot air

Ask yourself why the "audit" was performed by politicians and not experienced auditors and you've got your answer.

As for the forest Polonius - anyone that knows the area knows that the beetle in question has attacked before. The point is that if you leave it alone, the forest adapts. The beetle in question is effective against managed forests, but will struggle to spread in unmanaged forests.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
14 May 2016 #1,957
why Ziobro is planning to reform the court system

Well I do hope he'll get all of them useless muppets out on their ears!

with PiS judges

Still that would be a change for a better. A change that Poles voted for.
PO, GW and that Petru cretin are finished but it seems they don't realize that truth as yet.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
14 May 2016 #1,958
Well I do hope he'll get all of them useless muppets out on their ears!

I really wonder about you sometimes Ironside. Poland has an independent judiciary, yet you seem to regard it as something that should be under the control of governments.

Still that would be a change for a better. A change that Poles voted for.

How would having judges under political control be a change for the better?

It seems to me that you've got a longing for the pre-1989 system.

PO, GW and that Petru cretin are finished but it seems they don't realize that truth as yet.

Except they aren't finished in the slightest.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
14 May 2016 #1,959
you seem to regard it as something that should be under the control of governments.

The PRL ethos runs very deep in PiS supporters.... Party, party uber alles...
Ironside 50 | 10,939
14 May 2016 #1,960
I really wonder about you sometimes Ironside

Save yourself a bother.

Poland has an independent judiciary

Poland has a crappy, shaky and corrupted system and that need to be fix better late than never.

you seem to regard it as something that should be under the control of governments.

Ah because there is out there system that is not depended on a government one way or the other.

How would having judges under political control be a change for the better?

Get rid of the system transferred from PRL and from people that have been in that system for years, new people, new blood in highly inefficient system is an improvement at least first and necessary step.

I doubt though PiS have balls to see it through.

It seems to me that you've got a longing for the pre-1989 system.

Sonny, that is pre-1989 system in different environment.

Except they aren't finished in the slightest.

OH yes they're and a big time too!

The PRL

run along boy and go play some Legos or rpg! Grownups are talking.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 May 2016 #1,961
independent judiciary

Yeah, sure! Like when they drop charges or fail to follow through on cases not to the liking of the PO government. Every judiciary is independent...on paper.

But in real life judges have their needs, hobbies and families to support and know which side their bread is buttered on (ie who is in in power at any given point n in time).
pweeg3
15 May 2016 #1,962
Due to massive neglections in the Białowieża National Park, there are now 4 mln m3 of rotten wood lying around there, and Polant is risking huge fines from the EU.

Its a natural forest, since when has man been require to remove wood to protect it?

The Polish forces were concentrated along the western border, reinforced even by garrisons from the east

By the Soviet Union. It will cost billions to relocate the bases you know,

The rest of the points are random rants.
kondzior 12 | 1,200
15 May 2016 #1,963
experienced auditors

They rarely do that here, because no one wants being audited themselves after the next election. Also because of the federal government, it's almost always all major parties who are involved, so there's even less incentive to dig dirt. There's is an "independent" Court of Audit, which does yearly reports on wasting of tax payers' money, but since everyone knows that the government always wastes money on the most stupid things, people rage dutifully for a day and then shelve it.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 May 2016 #1,964
Its a natural forest, since when has man been require to remove wood to protect it?

Anyone that knows a single thing about the matter (such as many scientists) are openly ridiculing the excuses used. The reality is that the greedy foresters want their hands on the wood and that's that.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 May 2016 #1,965
many scientists

You undoubtedly rank yourself amongst them. It's truly amazing how one person can have so much expertise in so many difference areas, even forest management!

edited

edited

MODS: Somehow Harry's "Cat Duda" was not edited. Do you really believe someone showing such blatant disresepct for a democratcially elected head of state deserves the courtesy of not being called Rat Harry?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 May 2016 #1,966
Latest story of shame from PiS : it transpires that Ziobro just cut funding to a centre dealing with victims of domestic violence.
nothanks - | 640
15 May 2016 #1,967
Probably in preparation for the EU fines soon to be levied for not accepting rapefugees. Thanks EU!
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 May 2016 #1,968
No, it was cut because PiS openly believe that women should be kept in the kitchen, preferably on a chain.

Didn't you hear the highly amusing speech in which PiS openly declared that there is no such thing as a glass ceiling for women? :D Of course not, of course not. Try getting umowa o pracę as a young female in a Polish company.
gumishu 11 | 5,605
15 May 2016 #1,969
Didn't you hear the highly amusing speech in which PiS openly declared that there is no such thing as a glass ceiling for women?

there is no legal inequality of sexes in Poland as far as I know - how is the state supposed to deal with glass ceilings that are not a reflection of the law - imposing quotas on CEO positions??
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 May 2016 #1,970
If PiS really don't know how to encourage equality in the workplace, then it shows how poor they are.

The answer is pretty simple : subsidise kindergartens/schools in the workplace, require men and women to take parental leave equally or lose it, require transparent recruitment/promotion policies in any company over 50 employees, etc etc.

But PiS fundamentally believe that women shouldn't be working, so for them, it's a non-issue.
nothanks - | 640
15 May 2016 #1,971
Delph, have you been paying attention? We have a birth-rate problem. Women pursuing their careers is not exactly at the top of the list at the moment
gumishu 11 | 5,605
15 May 2016 #1,972
If PiS really don't know how to encourage equality in the workplace,

what do you mean by equality - there is equality - you want some privildges for women I think - privilidges is not equality

you can't require women and men to take a leave equally - PiS is subsidising families right now as we speak - and I don't like the idea of the state being involved with promotions among stuff in private companies - you cannot force love or respect
Harry
15 May 2016 #1,973
Ziobro just cut funding to a centre dealing with victims of domestic violence.

Yes, I saw that, absolute disgrace. The attitudes of the lovers of PIS to women really have come out this week, with the puppet Szydlo dressing up like an emo-goth to meet the Pope (who was clearly thinking 'What the actual f*ck' in the photos of them meeting), then some other marionette announcing that pay inequality exists only in the imagination of women, and now the removal of funding for this centre. Apparently when that cat Duda promised to be President for all Poles, he meant only the ones PIS see as first class Poles, i.e. males.
gumishu 11 | 5,605
15 May 2016 #1,974
then some other marionette announcing that pay inequality exists only in the imagination of women

he didn't say that you liar
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 May 2016 #1,975
Apparently when that cat Duda promised to be President for all Poles, he meant only the ones PIS see as first class Poles, i.e. males.

Males, and only ones that support PiS blindly. Reminds one of the PZPR, where very few women were in top positions despite all the propaganda to the contrary.

what do you mean by equality - there is equality - you want some privildges for women I think - privilidges is not equality

There isn't equality. It's well known that women suffer appalling discrimination in Poland in the workplace, and I've seen it happen on numerous occasions professionally and personally.

I remember one Polish guy had broken down in his car at the Croatian border, and he approached us for help. He asked me for help, my wife spoke back to him (he had a strong accent and my Polish was weak at the time), and he pointed at me and said "No, I want to speak to the driver". My wife spoke back to him again (she was driving...) and he insisted that only I could help him. It was absolutely ridiculous - and he received no help at all for his attitude.

(if he had half a brain, he'd realise that there's a good chance that the female is more knowledgable than the male when it comes tothese things).

you can't require women and men to take a leave equally

Why? Other countries have such a system and it works remarkably well. Sweden is the example I'm familiar with - they have zero problems with parental leave causing problems for employees because it's seen as normal for parents to be gone from the workplace at some point. The only people claiming that it doesn't work are the ones that support inequality.

PiS is subsidising families right now as we speak

Actually, many people have pointed out that the 500+ programme is doing more harm than good, as it's encouraging women to stay at home rather than stay in the labour market. Later on, when their kids are grown and they need money, they're going to find nothing because no employer will touch them.

and I don't like the idea of the state being involved with promotions among stuff in private companies - you cannot force love or respect

The state is already heavily involved through PIP. Requiring transparent recruitment/promotion processes is no different to many other labour laws that must be complied with. I got nearly 3 months salary recently because of one such control revealing serious issues with a former employer's paperwork.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
15 May 2016 #1,976
gotta love them women from polish women congress,clapping hands seeing this KOD leader Kijowski.
lol..guy doesn't pay for his 6 or 7 kids.
them feminists reached another level of stupidity.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 May 2016 #1,977
lol..guy doesn't pay for his 6 or 7 kids.

I really love how you post complete lies on here as facts. Must be something to do with the fact that you haven't been in Poland for years.

It's well known that he had problems paying it when he was unemployed, and that he's currently paying it all back plus what he currently owes. No issue there, and he was honest enough to admit that he had hard times.

Makes a huge difference to the typical PiS supporter, who would prefer women to be beaten up in their home regularly so that they don't even think about leaving.
gumishu 11 | 5,605
15 May 2016 #1,978
It's well known that he had problems paying it when he was unemployed

he still does not pay the full amount that was decided by court - it's in one of his interviews afaik

Actually, many people have pointed out that the 500+ programme is doing more harm than good,

in what way??

what harm

as it's encouraging women to stay at home rather than stay in the labour market

hardly - I've seen the calculations and you are still much better off working than relying on the 500 PLN per month
gregy741 4 | 1,204
15 May 2016 #1,979
t's well known that he had problems paying it when he was unemployed, and that he's currently paying it all back plus what he currently owes.

you are expert in KODorastia..so i got question
since you said,he finally pays for his kids...does he have a job now?
gumishu 11 | 5,605
15 May 2016 #1,980
does he have a job now?

he had a job at PZPN as a IT person with quite good money - but he quit to follow a political career

apparently his current wife supports him

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