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Poland's post-election political scene


delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
28 Jul 2017 #3,721
Good news: PiS backed logging in Białowieża Forest has been banned with immediate effect.

Fantastic news. The forest is safe for now from the maniac who declared this morning that he wanted to log an additional million trees from there.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
28 Jul 2017 #3,722
Things are getting worse, much worse for PiS.

rp.pl/Polityka/170729244-Sondaz-Polacy-uwazaja-ze-demokracja-jest-zagrozona.html

The latest poll shows that 56% of respondents agree that democracy is in danger in Poland, with the most notable part being that 71% of those aged 18-24 believe that it is. This is the same group that came out as being 82% opposed to the government, and anyone interested in Polish political history will know that it was the youth vote that destroyed PiS in 2007.

Interestingly, the same poll showed that 35% support PO/N. together, as opposed to only 32% supporting the United Right.

In short, good night PiS side.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
28 Jul 2017 #3,723
Opposition

Foreign investors not phased by judicial reform controversy; despite the loud, unruly ballyhoo, more investors are coming to Poland. Foreign investors are not not going to leave Poland country because of court reforms, Morawiecki told a news conference.

Foreign direct investment continues to grow and foreign companies are increasingly "knocking on our door", he said. According to Morawiecki, who is also development minister and deputy prime minister, foreign investors "are perfectly able to separate political emotions from hard economic facts".
jon357 66 | 17,068
28 Jul 2017 #3,724
Foreign investors not phased by judicial reform controversy

That's untrue. Investors are advised to avoid Poland due to political instability.

Morawiecki told a news conference

Quite.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
28 Jul 2017 #3,725
The forest is safe for now

But not from the spruce-bark beetle whose conquest realm is spareading. The removal was meant to take out diseased trees and eliminate thre contsagion but the know-all EU which knows about dendroilogy like HB kmnwos Polish are drifven by their political biases and obsessions, not concern for the environemnt. if PiS said water is wet, the Brusselcrats would retort it's a lie and threaten sacntions. That's the kind of bozos the "total oppsoiton" and a few whackos on PF identify with.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
28 Jul 2017 #3,726
I live near the forest, Polonius, and I have been following events closely here. If I had to choose between listening to the scientists who spend their careers here, or PiS, or ignorant locals in Hajnowka (where the hell did the Polish letters go?) with vested short term interests, I'd choose the scientists.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
28 Jul 2017 #3,727
I'd choose the scientists.

As would everyone else.

Polly, of course, supports corrupt local businessmen over the Polish Nation.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
28 Jul 2017 #3,728
I'd choose the scientists.

Would be amongst them this professor who is now a minister responsible for this policy?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
28 Jul 2017 #3,729
advised to avoid

By whom? Whoever's giving out such advice is completely ignored by hard-nosed businessmen who instinctively knwohow to separate the chaff (of ballyhoo protests) from the grain (real profits).
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
28 Jul 2017 #3,730
political instability

Loud, unruly hooligan rumpus-raising may suggest instability, but the shenanagins of that lunatic fringe impress only Brusselcrats and media hyenas on the lookout for a "sexy" story. It hasn't hurt PiS' political support nor improved that of the "total oppositon". Nor has it scared investors away.
jon357 66 | 17,068
28 Jul 2017 #3,731
Loud, unruly hooligan rumpus-raising may suggest instability, but the shenanagins of that lunatic fringe

Indeed, PiS behaviour as above impress noone.

hard-nosed businessmen

An expert on business, are you?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
28 Jul 2017 #3,732
expert on business

No, but I know a bit about human psychology.And you, of course, know more about economics than Morawiecki and have better contacts in London and New York.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
28 Jul 2017 #3,733
82% opposed

And 81% of Poles favour the judicial reforms. And here is an update on PO's hate and fake-news industry. PO MP Kinga Gajewska, on her party's fake-news specialists, has called for the sacking of interior minsiter Błaszczak over the beating of a Chechen family in Białystok. It turned out the incident had occurred in 2013 before Błaszczak became minoister, and the photo she ran did not show a Chechen family but Syrian refugees. Scamster Mateusz Kijowski has called on the EU to impose sanctions on Poland in a deseprate bid to shore up his declining grip on KOD. Milking his Nobel Peace Prize image for what it's worth, Lech Wałęsa told Germany's "Die Welt" one could expect most anything from Kaczyński including him shooting at people. Finally realising that PiS-bashing is not enough to win an election, Grzegorz Schetyna says PO plans to improve on 500+ by also giving benefits to the first-born child. Also emulating PiS, he declared PO would not set the welcome mat out for migrants.
Harry
29 Jul 2017 #3,734
Milking his Nobel Peace Prize image for what it's worth, Lech Wałęsa told Germany's "Die Welt" one could expect most anything from Kaczyński including him shooting at people.

I wonder why you might have that obvious bitterness towards Walesa. Clearly his actions, both recent and from long ago, do not meet with your approval, which is why you've been making up slurs about him such as your laughable claim that he said 15,000 people should be locked up when in reality he called for the arrest of 15 people.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
29 Jul 2017 #3,735
I wonder why you might have that obvious bitterness towards Walesa

cus he was paid agent to a regime that is considered in Poland as totalitarian and criminal.many people suffered greatly cus of hes criminal activities(snitching)

so now ,you can stop wondering
Dougpol1 32 | 3,245
29 Jul 2017 #3,736
many people suffered greatly cus of hes criminal activities(snitching)

Don't be silly gregy741. Without the charisma of Walesa, who was intelligent enough to successfully engage with the government delegation sent to the Lenin shipyard, the Solidarity movement wouldn't have had the effect that it did.

When you talk about criminal activities, those belong to the Kisczaks and Jarelzelskis of that world, and the Kaczynkis in the present era, IMO, but Poles are so weird that you just buy their memoirs by the shedload and let them be, while vilifying a man who is internationally recognised as a patriot and a hero who was there, whilst many, many Poles cowered, and did absolutely sweet **** all to challenge the system, or openly said " communism doesn't affect me", or " It really wasn't as bad as all that - we had freedoms.." That was my view of it back then in Kato anyway.

It was all so very complex back then as to who was doing what, who signed what and why (and what would we have done under pressure) but for the PIS nomenclature to cast stones at Walesa doesn't hold water on the world stage as he is twice the man they will ever be.

Pertaining to the signing of forms or agreements, PIS and it's 18 percent want to snitch on our freedoms, so your point about Walesa in 1970 potentially reporting on what colour coded socks his pals were wearing in the shipyard canteen is today mute.

If Walesa was British he would be refused the obligation to pay his restaurant bills. But Poles just enjoy negativity and the glass half empty view.
jon357 66 | 17,068
29 Jul 2017 #3,737
And you, of course, know more about economics than Morawiecki

I should think that most people have a more realistic attitude to business, the cash nexus and social ownership than him.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
29 Jul 2017 #3,738
15,000 people should be locked up

About 150 000 people should be locked up and that at minimum. Including Walensa.
Harry
29 Jul 2017 #3,739
cus he was paid agent to a regime that is considered in Poland as totalitarian and criminal.

Even if that were true, the people here who hate him the most were either also agents of that same regime or their parents were very high up on that same regime. Just as the people in the PiSlamic State who hate him the most were paid members of that same regime or wanted to be.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
29 Jul 2017 #3,740
or their parents were very high up on that same regime

Like Adam Michnik: parents Soviet agents, brother a fugitive from justice with Polish blood on his hands. Red scum all the way! Now you know why Adam is so soft on commies, called Kiszczak and Jaruzelski "men of honour" and labelled a true hero Col. Rysazrd Kukliński, the first Polish officer in NATO, a traitor.
jon357 66 | 17,068
29 Jul 2017 #3,741
the people here who hate him the most were either also agents of that same regime or their parents were very high up on that same regime.

Of course. I can think of a couple.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
29 Jul 2017 #3,742
unruly hooligan rumpus-raising

Despite or, perhaps more accurately, because of all the opposition's noisy rumpus-raising, suport for PiS has not declined but increased. The latest Ipsos poll shows 38% support for PiS, 3 pts more than in the last survey, whilst PO got 24%, 3 pts down.

That clearly shows that all the liberal-leftist ballyhoo can generate loads of anti-PiS headlines in the West's essentially anti-conservative mainline media and trigger yet another wave of EU Polonophobia. But it turns off the country's overwhelmingly conseravtive, family- and tradition-minded, Catholic and patriotic majority.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
29 Jul 2017 #3,743
PiSlamic State

Oh PiSlamic, wll you ever learn?!
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
29 Jul 2017 #3,744
what colour coded socks his pals were wearing

His misdeeds were far from readily dismissible. Dunno if you read Polish but Wałęsa "Bolek" snitched to the SB not only about the general mood at the yard's W-4 section harmed at least 24 of his workmates. Most of them have since died in oblivion with no help from Free (?) Poland. Wałęsa never tried to make it up them materially or even by apologising. Earlier evidence has been backed up by proof found in Kiszczak's cupboard and irrefutably confirmed by thorough graphological analysis. The fact he continues to stonewall does not make him innocent,

telewizjapolska24.pl/PL-H23/3/1852/kogo-i-w-jaki-sposob-skrzywdzil-34bolek34.html
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
29 Jul 2017 #3,745
in reality he called for the arrest of 15 people

Were they to be summarily jailed or forced to take part in a cooked trial in a post-commie kangaroo court? (Just imagine Michnik, Schetyna and Kijowski in judges' togas passing sentence!)
Dougpol1 32 | 3,245
30 Jul 2017 #3,746
Dunno if you read Polish but Wałęsa "Bolek" snitched to the SB not only about the general mood at the yard's W-4 section harmed at least 24 of his workmates.

Don't be so naive Pol. We all send poisonous pen letters, in that we give an opinion of our subordinates when pressed. 24 people, you say? What about the 38 million who have a democratic system today because of the bravery of Walesa and his group....?

Oh wait... you and the other jokers want to take that democracy away again. Lol
The truth, staring PIS in the face, is that that Polish youth will never allow their abuse of the constitution, and in 2 months the government will again be faced with that fact. The Prime Minister says that the street can never decide policy. She is so palpably wrong, because history validates that axiom.

Good luck!
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Jul 2017 #3,747
bravery of Walesa

Someone was saying something like "we overthrew communims in 1989" and the leader of the ex-commie SLD Włodzimierz Czarzasty chimwd in: "You did not overthrow communism. We cut a deal wtih you guys (dogadaliśmy się)!"

It's easy enoiugh to bandy slogans and imponderables about: freedom, democracy, constitution, rule of law, equality law, etc. But often the bottom line is typified by the attitude of Poland's "total opposition" or America's equally resentful and frustarted Democrats: "Democracy is only when WE are in power!" Under the PO regime and preceding administrations there did exist a form of democracy, but it mainly served a select post-commie clique who in turn were largely in the serivce of foreign-interest groups. For 2 years PiS have been evening out the playing field to make the fruits of transformation available to broader sections of the nation. That never sets well with formerly privileged dyed-in-the-wool elitists!
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Jul 2017 #3,748
history validates that axiom

Indeed, the Bolsheviks also got crowds into the streets that rampaged, looted, burnt and killed and the result: seven decades of the Evil Empire, blood, death, torture, gulags, fear and mayhem all wrapped up in miles of redtape...
jon357 66 | 17,068
30 Jul 2017 #3,749
What about the 38 million who have a democratic system today because of the bravery of Walesa and his group....?

PiS actually hate democracy; they can only achieve their aims in its absence.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
30 Jul 2017 #3,750
PiS actually hate democracy

Yes, but they hate the quasi-democracy promoted by the post-commie RT clique. The de facto guiding principles of the post-commie setup is: 1) Democracy is when WE (PO,KOD, PSL, N) are in power and: 2) Our version of democracy is meant to serve the "enlightened, privileged elites" who are foreordained to speak and decide for the majority of Poles.

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