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Poland's post-election political scene


jon357 66 | 17,078
19 Jul 2017 #3,511
I wonder how you would react

I don't publicly proclaim myself to be the leader of a country, one that is trying to turn it into a one party state.

It is 12.15 (past midnight)

They always do this sort of stuff at night. Like when Macierewicz broke into the NATO office.

disabling democratic legislation procedure

Pot. Kettle. Black...
Wulkan - | 3,250
20 Jul 2017 #3,512
I did get a little operatic with that....

*face palm* nope, you just butchered it like some early version of google translate.

I wonder how you would react

He would never have a chance to speak in front of so many people.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jul 2017 #3,513
democracy according to PO

PO's definition of democracy. "THAT IS WHEN WE ARE IN POWER. When we get voted out of office for 8 years of scamaster misrule, mismanagement and dipping in the till, we will resort even to violence to overthrow the legitimate, democratically elected authorities. Full stop!
mafketis 24 | 9,387
20 Jul 2017 #3,514
PO's definition of democracy. "THAT IS WHEN WE ARE IN POWER

That's because PiS cannot be trusted around modern western institutions - they turn them into neo-PRL influence peddling agencies.

What sane investor will want to put their money in a country where they know the courts are simply an extension of the governmnet and if they don't rule the way the government wants then they'll be replaced? That is serious third world politics dud and YOU'RE IN FAVOR OF IT!
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jul 2017 #3,515
What sane investor will want to put their money in a country where they know the courts are simply an extension of the governmnet

Sounds nice in theory but reality is a bit more complex than the blinkered world of wild-eyed PO fanatics. (They provided a sample of their class, parliamentary sophistication and decency last night at the committee meeting.)

Indeed, the rating agencies got duped by all the oppositon hoopla at the turn of 2015-2016 and the downturn temporarily gave some potential investors second thoughts. But it soon turned out that Poland's eocnomy was indeed robust and all the "pro-trough" ballyhoo by the poor losers had no bearing on doing buiness in Poland. All eocmomic indicators are growing: production, export, investments, GDP, falling are unemployment and the budget deficit which has scored a surplus for the first time. As a hard-nosed capitalist, you know better than anyone that this is true. When there is money be made, most entrepreneurs try to keep at least a barge-pole away from any fractious politicking. Sure, if the rebels started blowing up bridges and rail-lines and taking hostages, that would be a different story.

Waving the PRL card is ridiculous considering the opposition has not said what should be do be about the still active judges who had sentenced dissidents and Solidarity activists to jail during PRL. Nor has the opposition explained why all the ex-SB and TW types have flocked to their banners and why they (the opposition) are covering their behinds. Obviously to swell the ranks of their supporters.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
20 Jul 2017 #3,516
it soon turned out that Poland's eocnomy was indeed robust

In other words PiS was lying about the economy being 'w ruinie'...

Waving the PRL card is ridiculous

To people who are nostalgic for the PRL it might be.

the still active judges who had sentenced dissidents and Solidarity activists to jail during PRL

Like Piotrowicz? Putting that komuch in charge of anything is clear sign that PiSolska is PRL bis.
Harry
20 Jul 2017 #3,517
In other words PiS was lying about the economy being 'w ruinie'...

Yes, they were. But their comments then will soon become true, as Poland suffers from having an economy in which businesses have to deal with judges who are directly appointed by the government instead of being independent and the country is run by a man who knows so little about finance that he only got a bank account in his fifties when he was legally required to do so.

To people who are nostalgic for the PRL it might be.

To some people the PRL times were better than today. Mostly either Party men or collaborators of course, but to other people the only thing wrong with the PRL days was that they were not part of the elitny who got to shop at the same shops as 'Polish' Polly.

Like Piotrowicz? Putting that komuch in charge of anything is clear sign that PiSolska is PRL bis.

His behaviour yesterday was little short of Stalinist; obvious a Stalin who doesn't have full control of the courts and thus whose actions are limited, but that will soon all change.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
20 Jul 2017 #3,518
that they were not part of the elitny who got to shop at the same shops

You mean Pewex? Everybody could shop at those (at lost most of them) quite unlike other demoludki. I once tried to enter what looked like a similar store in Budapest and was thrown out faster than the speed of light.
Harry
20 Jul 2017 #3,519
You mean Pewex?

No, I mean the shops with yellow curtains where First Secretary Kaczynski's parents used to shop.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jul 2017 #3,520
PiS was lying about the economy being 'w ruinie'

That's what they inherited after 8 years of PO/PSL misrule and thievery. The big VAT heist is the best example. Morawiecki has recovered 22 bln in VAT revenues that under PO simply "evaporated" by saying: "It suffices not to steal." The embezzled PO-era VAT lined the pockets of pro-government scamsters.

Being as pro-market as you claim to be, are you truly an advocate of such goings-on? Have you forsaken economics for for rally-style sloganeering?
mafketis 24 | 9,387
20 Jul 2017 #3,521
rally-style sloganeering?

Do you even read what you write?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jul 2017 #3,522
Does it not clearly describe the unruly conduct and high-decibel slogan-mongering we keep hearing from the non-constructive "total opposition"? You and I and every thinking person not enmeshed in and revved up by all the ballyhoo knows it is not about high-sounding imponderables, but about regaining power. At all costs. One of the demonstrators actually said if there is some bloodshed, so be it. He expanded on this saying that if some measure caused the loss of 50 lives but saved 500 lives due to better traffic-rule enforcement, it would be worth it. One wonders if he would be thta flippant if it was his daughter or grandson that lost their lives?!
jon357 66 | 17,078
20 Jul 2017 #3,523
In other words PiS was lying about the economy being 'w ruinie'...

Of course. They are predicated on hysteria and negativity.

And once again, people are out on the streets to oppose their anti-democratic acts.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jul 2017 #3,524
people are out on the streets to oppose

Constantly thinning ranks of loudmouths, fanatics and trouble-makers oppose the verdict of Poland's voters -- PO/PSL got the red card in mid-October 2015. All the high-sounding sloganeering notwithstanding, every thinking person knows they want one thing: to seize power by hook or by crook. You do too, lower-case, but you won't admit it because you'd get stgmatised by your PiS-bashing circles. They know they'll never gain power at the polls again, not after all the thievery, corruption and embezzlement they foisted upon the Polish nation during their 8 years at the trough.
Harry
20 Jul 2017 #3,525
And once again, people are out on the streets to oppose their anti-democratic acts.

Yep, I'm off to the one outside the palace of the 'President' at eight o'clock tonight, need to keep the pressure up and keep the story in the international media.

A mate who was at the Sejm event yesterday told me that instead of just chanting "Lech Walesa Lech Walesa Lech Walesa Lech Walesa" they were chanting "Lech Walesa Lech Kaczynski Lech Walesa Lech Kaczynski" on the basis that if Lech Kaczynski was alive he'd be with them and against the illegal attack on the Polish Republic. No doubt that will drive First Secretary Kaczynski even further round the bend.

They know they'll never gain power at the polls again,

The problem is that nobody but First Secretary Kaczynski will ever again be allowed to win elections in the PiSlamic State now that he has illegally seized personal control over every aspect of the Polish state.
jon357 66 | 17,078
20 Jul 2017 #3,526
No doubt that will drive First Secretary Kaczynski even further round the bend.

Is that even possible? He's far enough round it now.

nobody but First Secretary Kaczynski will ever again be allowed to win elections in the PiSlamic State

This is of course what he dreams of. Of course, when another party gets in, the 'reforms' will be used against his clique.

The Chain of Light tonight will be particularly impressive.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jul 2017 #3,527
same shops as 'Polish' Polly.

Again you have shown that you don't know sh*t. Everyone who had dollars (and many Poles had realtives in Chicago, Sheffield, Toronot, etc. regularly received them) could buy anything they wanted at the Pewex shops -- food, booze, clothing, cars, typwriters, etc. Just like HB always has a little extra on the side from his clandestine Belarus forays into Belarus or near the Polish-Belarusian border (that remains unknown to the outside world).
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jul 2017 #3,528
need to keep the pressure up and keep the story in the international media

As behooves a dyed-in-the-wool snitcher. HB is looking forward to a nice punch-up, tonight, maybe spiced up with a little bloodshed. More fun and exictement than swilling endless beers in his kawalerka. And far more entertianing than an action movie!
jon357 66 | 17,078
20 Jul 2017 #3,529
a nice punch-up, tonight, maybe spiced up with a little bloodshed

The opposite of the dignified vigils organised by the Polish pro-democracy movement. Though doubtless some of the organization and groups praised by Kaczynski and Macierewicz would like a good scrap.
cms 9 | 1,271
20 Jul 2017 #3,530
anybody hear about Kaczynski saying the constitution can not be sovereign because it is only a small book.

Of course I can appreciate the Cartesian logic of this but it again is straight from the Erdogan or Putin playbook. The difference should be that Poland is a functioning and sincere democracy. I hope now most people can see this is just about revenge for his brother's decision to land in heavy fog or as Atch says to write a chapter rather than a page of Polish history. Either way he clearly has some personality defects and the more sensible members of PiS must do some soul searching (just as more sensible Republicans have in the US this week).

Good luck to those on the demo - I will attend next week if they are still on, I hear Soros pays quite well and there will be free bagels all round.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
20 Jul 2017 #3,531
So need to not hold back in English, not tone it down.

Nope, that would make no sense.

No.

Yes. He said it. It is very good he said it. PO and N Representatives should be in jail awaiting a trial for treason not taking time taking BS.

The guy has lost it.

Nah, as I said Polish is more emotional than English, more like Spanish in that regard. It doesn't carry as much weight as it sounds in translation.

Pretending to be a robot is not healthy either. Look at Hillary.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
20 Jul 2017 #3,532
That's because PiS cannot be trusted around modern western institutions -

And PO can, oh just gimme a break, you're hopeless.

In other words PiS was lying about the economy being 'w ruinie'...

no Po was lying about PiS saying it. You're such a 'leming', I bet you're Hilary supporter.
Wulkan - | 3,250
20 Jul 2017 #3,533
I will attend next week if they are still on, I hear Soros pays quite well and there will be free bagels all round.

Don't be silly, Soros pays only higher rank leaders that made speeches and organizers, brainwashed sheep like you go there for free, he doesn't spend money on controlling mainstream media to pay the sheep for attendance on top of that.
jon357 66 | 17,078
20 Jul 2017 #3,534
PO and N Representatives should be in jail awaiting a trial for treason n

There would needed to be grounds for that. Having a different point of view to yours is not grounds.

as I said Polish is more emotional than English,

Only if the speaker is, like Kaczynski, deranged.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
20 Jul 2017 #3,535
Only if the speaker is, like Kaczynski, deranged.

So you say. Not factual.

There would needed to be grounds for that.

Plenty, they are destabilizing Poland on purpose in order to overthrow a legally grovemnat with the foreign support and the money form foreign sources- that is a definition of the classic treason, hand them by the neck till they kick the bucked !
johnny reb 28 | 5,329
20 Jul 2017 #3,536
the more sensible members of PiS must do some soul searching (just as more sensible Republicans have in the US this week).

That doesn't even make sense.
Those Republicans promised their constituents for seven long years that they would vote to abolish obama care but claimed their hands were tied because obama held the pen to sign such a bill.

Now that Trump has the pen they obviously were lying as they voted against it.

Poland is a functioning and sincere democracy.

Correct so how can you make such an analogy with the liars running America that speak to keep their gravy jobs and not what the people elected them to do ?

Poland (PiS & PO) like America (Republican & Democrat) has gone down the tubes.
It is now the Patriots Party (right wing) and the Progressive Party (left wing).
The Patriots want to keep the countries culture and history and the Progressives want to destroy the culture and history by "enriching" it with their Socialism.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jul 2017 #3,537
dignified vigils organised

Agreed, Chopin by candlelight was a dignified gatehring. Quite unlike the KOD's hooligan wing screaming and shouting, lying on their backs and kicking the metal barriers like tantrumn-throwing brats as police looked on the pathetic spetacle. Wonder which one HB attended. Hopefully he took along his pocket dictionary or accessed google translate via his smartphone so he'd know what he's chanting.

When all that noise and effort leads to PiS withdrawing the judicial reforms and reinstating the sacked commie judges, do let us know!
Harry
20 Jul 2017 #3,538
Wonder which one HB attended.

I'm outside the Bristol Hotel right now, standing next to a certain Mr Michnik: shall I ask if he remembers you?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jul 2017 #3,539
shall I ask if he remembers you?

Defintiely. Do ask him about me. I'll be very interested to know what he says. Don't forget now! Also ask when he plans to apologise for his brother the Stalinist murderer. I wonder how you converse with him -- he knows French, dunno about English.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
20 Jul 2017 #3,540
anybody hear about

Anybody hear about that creepy rotund dwarf Timmermans attacking Poland over the judicial reforms. Politicians appointing judges -- horrors, how anti-democratic! Except that in his postage-stamp-sized windmill & wooden shoe theme park, it is the king that appoints judges recommended by--hold your hat--parliament, ie politicians. He harbours a seething hatred for Poland because he is one of those ultra-leftist "progressives"(?!) and pervert promoters who bristles at the thought of a decent. traditionalist, family-minded, conservative, Catholic country like Poland. But Poland can easily thumb its nose at roly-poly Timmer What's His Face,

because any sanctions or silencing Poland's voice in the EU woudl require the approval of all 27 memebers.

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