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Political life of Poland


Lyzko 17 | 4,555    
7 Jul 2018  #61
@Ironside,The New York Times roundly condemns Kaczynski for the purge, claiming the PiS simply wants to revert Poland back to an ideological stone age, completely out of touch with modern Europe! If you don't believe yours truly, read it for yourself.....if you're able toLOL

I'm sure it's available in Polish translation. Good luck!:-)
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
7 Jul 2018  #62
The New York Times

Yeah because the NYT never writes with a total left wing bias....

Even if that were the truth, that's what the majority of polish voters desired. Since when is democracy a system of 'I know better than the majority of a country s citizens?' If Poland wants to follow an illiberal model that's up to polish voters to decide, not anyone else.
Ironside 46 | 8,791    
7 Jul 2018  #63
oday's polish roads are still worse than Germany's were 15 years ago

Hmm ... nah, actually is not correct - again.

Both Poland and Germany have greatly benefited from the EU.

That is not entirely true. Germany benefited more than Poland. I suppose you could put it down to Germany handling better their affairs than Poland IF NOT for one very important detail - the EU law about temporary foreign workers that curtails freedom of the common market and actually is against the EU law (or was).

Those law France and Germany want to extant in a way they will include lorry drivers. In a layman terms means that want to use legation to undercut their competition.

I wonder if that law include German or French workers in Poland - they wages should be lowered to Poland's standard or they should hire locally. Sadly PiS gov didn't go there, a fail, again!

What solution does the parties suggest?

NM - National Movement wants Poland to quite the EU. Other parties are pretty much into staying and offer no real solution and their negotiation skills left much to be desired.

@lesseronimus:
"Mentally fanatical supporters of both mayor parties are on the same level. If you disagree with them you are either traitor or a freak."

That is what you claim. Do you have any evidence to support your claim? I understand is easer to write off someone as a 'fanatical supporter" rather then seriously consider what those people are saying and where lie the truth.

I'm not even a supporter (let alone fanatical) of PiS or PO. I'm only stating the obvious - there is problem that affect citizens and democracy in Poland. PiS at the very least try to fix it. Those who are against it, are insidious and have no valid argument or a counter- proposition, all they do are using their external contacts to use foreign powers to pressure Polish gov out of the office and to stop all changes regardless of the fact if they are they beneficial to the populace of Poland or not.

That is a standard definition of a traitor and a soviet i.e. person who feels no attachment to his country of origin.

"This is you the one who mention Korwin".

However you're the one who hold his musings dear. You're not the first one of the long line people who were under the influence of the dude or one or other of this cheerleader groups called a party. I recognize symptoms of illogical bias.

"They have no authority to make such distinctions."

It is not about authority. It is about a fact. This forum is but a little and imperfect widow for those who do not speak Polish into Poland. So, oft I write for their benefit. I see no point in debating a Polish person on the English language forum.

The New York Times roundly condemns Kaczynski for the purge,

The NYT lost his credibility long ago. As for its publications about Poland they're the next level of nonsense. They are the very embodied of the term - prejudiced hatful pricks.

So it hilarious and came as a no surprise that you quote them as your source. Think for yourself if you can lol. Unfortunately there is no google address that can fix it.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
7 Jul 2018  #64
Poland didn't have anything even resembling an autobahn or highways 15 20 years ago and even today the system is imo worse than germany. I remember driving w some friends to the Berlin love parade doing 160 180 kmh on the highways as soon as we entered german territory. Smoothest highways ever - only those in Atlanta come close. Poland still has nothing comparable, atleast not around wroclaw. While just A few days before that i landed in Warsaw and decided this time id drive to wroclaw instead of flying. Well it was 5 6 hours of stop and go, wyprzedzanie, avoiding tractors dogs and drunk villagers on the road... thats what I get for taking the 'scenic' route and driving instead of taking the 1 hour prop plane which is also the same pos commie era plane they used when I was a kid...

For the tens of billions of eu spent on polish roads they're still not that great and many of them around wroclaw are still unfinished and just ad bad as they were when I was a kid. Ams even once theyre finished they still wont hold a candle to germanys system. When I go to prusice oborniki slaskie etc it's still the same bogus 1 lane tight road where you're playing don't crash into a tractor or farm animal the whole time.

Maybe in Warsaw it's different, but I'm sure as he'll not seeing much of the eu infrastructure in and around wroclaw...
Ironside 46 | 8,791    
7 Jul 2018  #65
around wroclaw...

Why don't you google it?

opo
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
7 Jul 2018  #66
Again iron, for the tens of billions supposedly spent on roads I'm simply not seeing it. I'm not denying there's a few new highways and bridges like the one near prusice, but overall the roads are not much different than they were 15 20 years and still way worse than Germany's even 15 20 years ago. I cant think of a single road around wroclaw where i czn safely drive over 100 kmh. The roads i drive on to and from wroclaw and a few of the towns villages suburbs etc in the area are exactly the same as they were when I was a kid.

For all that money spent we should have autobahn type highways connecting every city. And no more 1 lane roads through villages whrte you have to avoid farm animals and tractors just to go fron wroclaw to a suburb 15 mins outside the city. Yet that's not the case
Ironside 46 | 8,791    
7 Jul 2018  #67
Again iron, for the tens of billions supposedly spent on roads I'm simply not seeing it.

Well, except for few autobahns in east Germany that improved most of the infrastructure there is not that much better IF you consider amount of money Germany keep pumping there.
dolnoslask 5 | 1,845    
7 Jul 2018  #68
there is not that much better

I drive across Germany on a regular basis, over the last five years the motorways appear to be deteriorating, maybe they are spending the cash on camps for the 1 million migrants?
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
7 Jul 2018  #69
spending the cash on camps for the 1 million migrants?

Last stat I read was germany spends over 20 billion on migrants. A few billion more than on education.

Everything in germany is slowly deteriorating... not just it's roads..

@Ironside
I look at it simply can I safely drive atleast 100 kmh.
, preferably 140 160 on the highway or 60 80 kmh on rural roads. In Poland that answer is almost always no, on german highways that answer is almost always yes. And i really dont see much improvement on the roads that I've travelled on since a kid. In most cases the roads outsidr of wroclaw are the same way they were 10 20 years ago. Yes there are some nee bridhes and new surfaces but overall I don't see much of an improvement. Perhaps it's different in Warsaw or other cities but I can only go off the roads I've travelled on before and after eu entry. I love driving but every time I drive around wroclaw or to the suburbs and towns around it is not an enjoyable experience. My blood pressure is always high and I'm just waiting to crash into some dog or tractor or some idiot who overtakes on corners. Driving to and from wroclaw and the towns around it is not a pleasant experience for me.
Ironside 46 | 8,791    
7 Jul 2018  #70
I look at it simply can

But your personal experiences is hardly a test case. You can generalize your personal experience of course but there is always a danger of making a major error in assessment. It could be a regional thing. In my experience roads in Poland improved and keep improving and that is backed up by the stats.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
7 Jul 2018  #71
Of course that's why I wrote I don't know what the situation is in Warsaw and other cities, but around wroclaw I don't really see any major improvements from my experience
cms neuf - | 272    
7 Jul 2018  #72
Driving from Wroclaw to Warsaw used to be a whole day experience. Of course you could fly but the flights used to cost a fortune and the tiny airport only had flights at foggy times of the day.

It's ridiculous to say the infrastructure has not improved - its safer, quicker and has more capacity.
Lyzko 17 | 4,555    
7 Jul 2018  #73
@DirkDiggler & Ironside,

The NYT is only attacked for her "left-wing" bias because you both simply happen not to agree with that bias, nothing more, nothing less! Were that same journal showing right-wing bias (although bias nonetheless), you'd be applauding rather than attacking me, don't bother to deny it!!

Objective journalistic "truth"?? Show it to me, I dare ya:-))

Perhaps in an odd way, it serves the Poles right having the PiS in power! Electorates typically have an oh so short collective memory and have conveniently forgotten that it was the same Kaczynski party which nearly destroyed Poland some twenty-odd years back. How quickly they forget.
lesser 4 | 1,315    
7 Jul 2018  #74
hat is what you claim. Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

You have no idea how many times I was accused of being PiS or PO supporter if I dare to disagree with such people. They ostentatiously and arrogantly use to call supporters of smaller political movement "freaks".

PiS at the very least try to fix it.

I already mentioned PiS agenda in details, nothing positive about such politics at all. In the times when western Europe is lost in socialist decadency Polish politicians dare to follow their paths instead taking advantage by building economic powerhouse. It is worse than a crime, it is a mistake as French diplomat Talleyrand used to say.

cheerleader groups

5% of voters of the last elections. Those people refuse to submit Poland being endlessly some kind of golem of Germany, the US or Russia. Your Poland beg Germany for money, beg US for visas, beg Russia for remain of the plane and beg Israel wherever they can change its own laws. Now PiS want to keep the Poles down, if the state is a beggar then its citizens should be as well, so you have 500+ and other socialist inventions.

his forum is but a little and imperfect widow for those who do not speak Polish into Poland.

They will learn much more from such discussion than from anything else.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
7 Jul 2018  #75
@Lyzko

Actually I prefer to examine and try to understand both sides of the argument. But nyt is little more than a propaganda piece. They proved that during the election with their complete lack of objectivity. And there's many outlets with a right wing bias who write reports or stories or whatever that I don't agree with or know are factually incorrect.

Whenever someone or an outlet says that democracy is somehow under threat in Poland I stop listening because they're clueless about the reality in Poland. More often than not the people writing such articles aren't even polish, let alone polish citizens.

And besides, polish voters elected pis based on campaign promises which they are enacting. What pis is doing with stuffing courts, altering media to fit it's party line is no different than when po was in charge. In fact, p.o. was far more corrupt as revealed by numerous recordings and property deals worth millions which are now being exposed. Where was nyt the eu and all the other leftists decrying their actions back then? Oh that's right they were silent because the left won't call out it's own.

which nearly destroyed Poland

Do you seriously believe this? Yeah Kaczynski singlehandedly almost turned Poland into a failed state... good one...

Polish voters chose pis for a reason. If you respect democracy you'll respect the votes of polish voters. Seems though people only respect democracy when the citizens vote a party they like
Ironside 46 | 8,791    
7 Jul 2018  #76
You have no idea how many times I was accused of being PiS or PO supporter if I dare to disagree with such people.

Such a partisanship is not unique to Poland. Nevertheless some issues are objectively good or bad for the interest of Poland. It doesn't matter who support what. Go by the issues not by the loud people.

I already mentioned PiS agenda in details, nothing positive about such politics at all.

It is a very judgmental dogmatic statement and not helpful at all. There is not a one wholesome solution to all the problems. An answer to problems doesn't lie in a one dimensions but more oft than not it is a much more complex issue. In short, looking for an answer or as it might be for a panacea for all the ills to be solved by applying the right formulae is a grave error. As any ideologically constructed recipe its not a science but its opposite a magical thinking. In such order of thing such ideology is no different that communism or other -isms. Not workable and not without major flaws.

There some positive or outright good things being done. PiS is such a party with a program that gets its support of the large sway of the populace of Poland. That is a fact that no amount of mopping gonna change.

5% of voters of the last elections.

Exactly. That is called a reality check. You can refuse all you want, politically you're a joke. Hence no one cares what you think. Maybe it a time to stand outside of your shell and face reality. To properly react to it rather than reject it allthoghter in the name of some idealistic dogma?

By the way don't talk for me about what I think and what I stand for. You don't know me or my views.

@Lzyko
"The NYT is only attacked for her "left-wing" bias"

The NYR times is not attacked. It aces backlash after publish lie after lie, manipulation after manipulation and prejudiced nonsense about Poland times 100s.

'A point of view' can only take you so far.
OP Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,521    
8 Jul 2018  #77
So PO&PiS
Don't have any connections to solidarity what so ever? Sosialistic think is quite relevant with connections to labour unions. PO has openly said to be social-democrats copycatting scandinavia. PiS is open for governmental programmes, it seems both of them see the Polish state as the solution to all the ills and problems in Poland, be it a nation-state or multi-kult-state.

I think building up the economy and creating more jobs, not only low wage jobs should be an priority. (Not governmental jobs).

Lowering taxes should be a priority in Poland in my opinion and boosting small businesses with less regulations and a better attitude towards them.
Lyzko 17 | 4,555    
8 Jul 2018  #78
@Dirk and Ironside,

I guess it depends on which Polish voters out there you talk to! Me? I tend to trust the opinions of an educated, thirty-something Polish woman from Poznan, who lived most of her life in Poland before marrying and coming to the States. She hates the PiS with a palpable passion, what's more, she seems to have a brain, almost as rare a commodity nowadays as water in the Sahara:-)
Rich Mazur 5 | 756    
8 Jul 2018  #79
She hates the PiS with a palpable passion, what's more, she seems to have a brain,

Let me guess. She hates PiS because of abortion. Right?

That 'she seems to have a brain,' sure does not look like a compliment. The rest of that sentence would typically have the the word 'but', as is in: ...but on closer examination...
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
8 Jul 2018  #80
I guess it depends on which Polish voters out there you talk to!

Of course. Nonetheless the polish voters chose pis. What is extremely annoying is how so many people - especially the EU and EP - only respect democracy when it's THEIR party or candidate that was elected. But when a party they don't like is elected suddenly democracy is under threat, merely because the citizenry voted in a euroskeptic party that doesn't have the eus stamp of approval. It's like that in Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Czechy and noe it's spread to Italy and Austria. The socialists in the eu are losing ground more and more.
Rich Mazur 5 | 756    
8 Jul 2018  #81
I am still waiting for just one 'democracy' to ask the voters if they want more immigrants and refugees. Just one.
cms neuf - | 272    
8 Jul 2018  #82
But Voters are asked that regularly at elections in many democracieis - there have been literally hundreds of parties across the democratic world standing on explicit anti immigration platforms.

Mostly they get very low votes, are you few percent and in the best case maybe 10 or 15%.

If you are talking about having a referendum then maybe suggest a question that could be asked ?

Do you approve of any migration?

Do you approve of skilled migration?

Do you approve of humanitarian migration?

Do you approve of qualified engineers using their parents govt connections to enter the US?
mafketis 16 | 5,667    
8 Jul 2018  #83
Mostly they get very low votes, are you few percent and in the best case maybe 10 or 15%.

They recently won elections in Austria and Italy... and every new deal that Merkel makes to not stop migration into Germany strengthens AfD...

It should be noted that in the US the leadership of both parties wants permanent massive levels of unskilled migration into the country although a solid majority of the country is against that.
Rich Mazur 5 | 756    
8 Jul 2018  #84
If you are talking about having a referendum then maybe suggest a question that could be asked ?

Simple.

1. Are you willing to pay for ALL the welfare, schools, medical care, and incarceration of the refugees, the immigrants, and their families? Answer YES or NO. If YES, go to Question 2.

2. Enter the amount:...........


See how simple things can be when you ask a totally brilliant person like me?
cms neuf - | 272    
8 Jul 2018  #85
Yes you are quite right and in each case got about 30 percent
Rich Mazur 5 | 756    
8 Jul 2018  #86
No, I am not right because such questions are never asked to hide the true expense of having the world unwanted scum living next door.

Can you name a referendum that asked this or an equivalent with the cost and the crime by the immigrants fully disclosed?
cms neuf - | 272    
8 Jul 2018  #87
I wasn't talking to you - you are never right. My answer was to Mafketis
G (undercover)    
8 Jul 2018  #88
Yes you are quite right and in each case got about 30 percent

Huh ? That's what it takes to win the elections. Somehow you folks don't mind it when lefists/globalists win with even less.
Lyzko 17 | 4,555    
8 Jul 2018  #89
Wrong, Rich! She's a strict Catholic and hates the PiS because she finds them retrograde, wanting to turn back the clock in Poland
and revert to a single-ethnicity society. Heck, she didn't even marry a Pole, but instead a Colombian:-)
Israel    
8 Jul 2018  #90
hat's more, she seems to have a brain,

You mean she agrees with you? lol
I don't know what a one's person opinion signifies here? I'm sorry I do - not much. Also the fact she is ranting some incoherent BS about an ethnocentric state as an allegedly goal perused by PiS, puts her alleged intelligence and sanity in question.

Maybe I'm too hard on her, in Poland approximately 80% of the media are in foreign hands and they spew a lot of propaganda - that could be your answer.

By the way - what about an ethnocentric authoritarian racist state with a fascist party in charge i.e. Israel? I have thought you support them without question.




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