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Political life of Poland


Ironside 46 | 8,791    
6 Jul 2018  #31
@Mr Grunwald
PSL - ex-commie establishment base. Based mostly in regional bureaucracy.

PO - all kind of opportunists, generally they like to be in charge and live off corruption, scratch it and you will find mafia connections, no political standing, sucking up to neo- Marxist EU, because they don't care about corruption, bad governance as long as they can exploit Poland, and impose neo-Marxist, progressive ideology.

Kukiz15 - people who didn't want to vote PO or PiS voted on them. Generally every person hold different views.

PiS a centrist party, called conservative and patriotic because a large chunk of Poland's society who vote them hold those views and some progressive LGTB crap do not wash with them. In other words it took 40 years to brainwash 'western' societies into meekly accepting lot of its nonsense.

--
Partia Wolnosc - some BS I never heard about.

Antifa - great grandpa was installed in Poland by the Soviets, grandpa was a big shot in soviet Poland collaborating with occupiers, daddy make into banking (due to his connection with ex-commies) his son became an Antifa member and play at being 'something' - few and between of those.

ONR - people in they early 20' anti-establishment movement that took on an identity of the movement that belong in the late 30' of the 20 century. they are not fascist and they are not commies.
Lyzko 17 | 4,555    
6 Jul 2018  #32
@Ironside, if I have no idea what I'm talking about, tell that sentence to the rest of your fellow Poles, who took to the streets in the thousands to protest the PiS!!!

They don't know what they're talking about either??! Even a judge, herself on the Supreme Court (Wyjszy Sad), was interviewed in the NYT as somewhat sympathetic to the protesters. And she has no idea what she's talking about as well?? You got a couple of screws loose, buster:-)

@Dirk,

"SS..." What has the Second World War got to do with it, for pity's sake?
OP Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,521    
6 Jul 2018  #33
You never heard about Korwin-Mikke @Ironside?
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
6 Jul 2018  #34
Korwin-Mikke

Dudes a boss. I loved the reaction of the eurocrats when he called all the migrants who don't want to work and just live off benefits 'human trash'

Hahahhaha

Oh and his sig heil in front of the eup... dudes the wokest mp out of all of them
NoToForeigners 6 | 953    
6 Jul 2018  #35
Theres better Polish MEP in Brussels. Name's Dobromir Sośnierz. YT him if you understand Polish. no idea if his videos have English text though.

youtu.be/lzigiPUXNzI

EDIT: They do
OP Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,521    
6 Jul 2018  #36
Dirk diggler
If you didn't understand it as satire of the EU as an organization, you got some real problems
NoToForeigners 6 | 953    
6 Jul 2018  #37
@NoToForeigners
LEFTIST EUROCRATIC NIGHTMARE
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
6 Jul 2018  #38
YT him if you understand Polish. no idea if his videos have English text though.

Yeah he's alright but he's nowhere ad entertaining as Korean.

No probs unlike the vast majority of people here I actually am a pole by blood, by birth, by citizenship and fluent in the language =) I do wish we had more poles on a polish forum but what can ya do....

you didn't understand it as satire of the EU as an organization, you got some real problems

The eu will crumble more and more. It is our duty as poles to continue funneling as much western European money as possible into our country. I might just use my money to enter polish politics and help speed this process up while enriching and empowering the down trodden poles, kind of like robin hood or Pablo Escobar
dolnoslask 5 | 1,845    
6 Jul 2018  #39
It is our duty as poles to continue funneling as much western European money as possible into our country

Absolutely, no question about that.
OP Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,521    
6 Jul 2018  #40
You got to be kidding me
dolnoslask 5 | 1,845    
6 Jul 2018  #41
Why? We need to take all the cash that is possible, even appear to capitulate to the stupid Brussels idiots at times to keep the cash coming in.
NoToForeigners 6 | 953    
6 Jul 2018  #42
Out of 100 billion Euro Poland received from EU 80 billion went back to GERMANY and that is just raw money. Other benefits Germany gained including cheap labour for German products or market for their 2nd grade products no German would accept (EU just recently changed the rules regarding that after many years of being deaf to countriest pointing that out) and other basically incalculable benefits for Germany and France not incliuded. Only an idiot think that EU (Germany and France interests) GIVES MONEY for free and at NO INTEREST!
Tacitus 1 | 422    
6 Jul 2018  #43
This is of course blatantly untrue.

polska.pl/economy/investments-projects/eu-funds-poland

Both Poland and Germany have greatly benefited from the EU.The beauty of the EU is that it is a win-win situation for everyone. The poorer countries receive a lot of money to improve their infrastructure, which otherwise would have taken them several decades to do, while the richer countries gain access to new markets.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
6 Jul 2018  #44
Many of the contracts require that poles hire german, French etc firms instead of local polish ones or use foreign materials. Yes, poles do get a bridge or gymnasium or whatever at the end of the day but it's basically germany saying here's some money to build xyz but you habe to use our materials, our companies and you're in political debt to Us now.

A while back there was a road that was being built in my grandparents town so out of curiosity I wanted to submit a bid. When I received the paperwork it was something like 400 pages of jumping through hoops just to get the project.

Now if you have a ****** office and claim to be helping gays or migrants, oh you'll get loads of funds.
cms neuf - | 272    
6 Jul 2018  #45
That is completely untrue that 80bn has flowed back to Germany. My guess is that at least 50 percent if such works are performed by Poles, either as main contractor or subcontractor.

Those who write from the comfort of Chicago of course have no idea what infrastructure was like before 2004.

And of course there will be many pages of admin involved in building a road - it needs to be safe, long lasting, finished on time etc - i cant imagine that in Illinois you would be able to build a road either.
Rich Mazur 5 | 756    
6 Jul 2018  #46
Let's see if I got it right: what Germany did not accomplish in 1939 - 1945, they are doing it peacefully today by buying Poland bit by bit.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
6 Jul 2018  #47
Pretty much - especially with media and finance, which pis seeks to change so that key industries remain in polish hands. It will be an uphill battle though and i doubt it will happen especially the finance sector but with media that'll be easier
cms neuf - | 272    
6 Jul 2018  #48
How many of Polands top 10 banks are German ? I can think of only one, Pfandbriefbank, which is really niche.

In media well Axel Springer is pretty big but most media is Polish owned - TVP, Agora, Polsat, Rmf and Zet. TVN is US owned and of course the biggest media these days are also US owned- fb, instagram, Twitter etc.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
6 Jul 2018  #49
Those who write from the comfort of Chicago of course have no idea what infrastructure was like before 2004.

Oh yes I do... hell i still habe my passport from the prl days as a soveneir. And the roads still suck although yes they are better than before. All those tens of billions and today's polish roads are still worse than Germany's were 15 years ago

My guess is that at least 50 percent if such works are performed by Poles, either as main contractor or subcontractor.

Well your guess is wrong is far less than half. Poles receive a fraction of the funds at the end of the day - most of the money from such projects goes back west. I'll give you an example - skanska, a Swedish company is doing much of the road, bridge and work related to the odra. The only polish firms involved are a few dump truck subs. It is not polish firms that are leading the projects, it is western European ones. The only time poles are involved is when it's too costly due to logistics or whatever to use a western sub.
cms neuf - | 272    
6 Jul 2018  #50
You were a kid when you left and you never drove your lexus or whatever it is on those roads.

The fact that much of the EU money flows to Polish builders can easily be validated by reviewing the financials of the many builders and developers listed on the WSE which you should do sometime.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
6 Jul 2018  #51
I don't own any jap cars... And it matters little as I spend months at a time regularly in Poland and europe. I have far more knowledge of Poland than most people here. Most people here can't even speak polish so how are they somehow experts on polish society when they can't even communicate with Poles?

And actually the first car I ever drove was a fiat cinqiento on polish roads at like 13 or 14. I'm well aware of the state of polish roads and how they changed from the 90s to today. And today they're still garbage. Yes there's a few highways but still despite all that money there's little improvement for how much was spent. The roads in late 90s early 00s in even rural parts of germany are way better than today's polish roads despite tens of billions. Seems all the investments did is enrich western European firms who are more often than not allied with eurocrats.

it needs to be safe, long lasting, finished on time etc - i cant imagine that in Illinois you would be able to build a road either.

And it takes 400 pages to write that? There's several hundred rules when it comes to manufacturing even the most simple goods like a towel or toothbrush which only mskes it harder for small businesses to survive let alone thrive. And the eu knows that damn well. They write such rules after receiving funds from large corporations and businessmen who are able to bully small businesses and establish competitive monopolies

Actually in Illinois I type up a 1 to 3 page paper with a floor plan for jobs ranging from a few grand to a few hundred grand along with my license number in the header.Then if my bid is accepted we use the same paperwork to get the permit. It's very simple. Only thing that takes a long time is getting paid since they do their accounts payable quarterly.
cms neuf - | 272    
6 Jul 2018  #52
The stuff about towels and toothbrushes has already been exposed as a lie during the Brexit campaign - too late sadly for the halfwits who believed it.

I presume yiu are getting all this drivel from Breitbart.

A road is more difficult than a private dwelling - the public have to drive on it.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
6 Jul 2018  #53
can easily be validated by reviewing the financials of the many builders and developers listed on the WSE

There is only one construction/real eztate company in the wig 30.

The stuff about towels and toothbrushes has already been exposed as a lie

Perhaps you've never heard of the European committee for standardization?
It is a FACT there are hundreds of rules for manufacturing the most simple items. Not to mention dozens of agencies that control such trade. Us has a lot of bureaucracy but eu is on a whole other level. And all it does is harm small businesses which are the drivers of economic growth and personal wealth.

A small mom and pop operatiom can't even sell legally homemade totally natural soap despite doing it for generations previously they made at their farm without spending a fortune on testing before they sell it... not ti mention dozens of other eu agencies they'd have to ensure they're in compliance with
dolnoslask 5 | 1,845    
6 Jul 2018  #54
I don't own any jap cars

Good man.
OP Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,521    
6 Jul 2018  #55
Could we please keep ourselves together and maintain a focus on what political parties want/are doing in Poland.

Is Brussel the new capitol of Poland? Which differancas are the most important nowadays? What crises to avert? What solution does the parties suggest?
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
6 Jul 2018  #56
Here is all the b.s. a eu manufacturer must do

ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/ce-marking/manufacturers_en

Most complicated is step 1 - compliance with eu standards which is where ghe hundreds of rules for the simplest items comes from.

ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/european-standards_en

No wonder British manufacturers wanted to leave the eu. Why anyone would want to follow a huge complicated manufacturing rules imposed by a capital in a foreign country is beyond me.
Dirk diggler 7 | 2,972    
6 Jul 2018  #57
@Mr Grunwald

Indeed....

No Brussels is not the capital of Poland. PO suggests more integration with Brussels and abandoning our polish identity in our own land in exchange for being a star on the eu flag and submitting to a socialist leaders who modeled the eu constitution on the ussr and want to eliminate as much sovereignty as possible. PiS suggests maintaining a relationship with the eu and not leaving it, but as a sovereign nation making polish laws and standards take precedence over eu laws.

Many of these types of questions will be asked on the referendum coming up.

Poles don't want to leave the eu. But at the same time they don't want to give up their independence and sovereignty which they lost twice - 123 years during the partitions and for some 60 70 years after 1939. They're not just going to hand over hard won sovereignty to the eu just because they built us some highways and gyms.

The problem is that the current eurocrat leaders have no respect for independent states. They despise individual sovereignty amd those who express their indpendence, sovereignty and national identity. Thats why merkel wont even wave the German flag - a german flag, any eu nation flag is against her ideals. Eurocrats like verhofstadt, merkel, etc dream is for the eu to become one giant state, much like the ussr. And anything that opposes that vision or.doesnt support them theyre against. But when a country supports them they can.get away with anything.

Perfect examples are Spain, Poland Hungary etc. When catalonians wanted to hold a referendum they were violently supressed. The eu did nothing. Why? Because Spain and the eu have a good relationship. Now when a country like Poland or Hungary wants to have a referendum or democrstically votes in a euroskeptic party pm or whatever the eu suddenly attacks them, threatens them with sanctions etc. And actually Poland wants to change its courts to be similar to the Spanish model- but it's fine for eurocrat spain but when poland does it theyre threatened with sanctions. When p.o. fired reporters, stuffed courts, suppressed the opposition not a peep of condemnation from the eu since po supports the eu. Tusk even became merkels favorite lapdog. So of course p.o. wasn't criticized when they did much of the same exact stuff as pis- on top of.enriching themselves through various insider deals esp.related to real estate which is now being exposed.
lesser 4 | 1,315    
6 Jul 2018  #58
YOUR LIST is skewed because everything to you is socialist

I'm sorry to burst your bubble.

a large chunk of Poland's society who vote them hold those views and some progressive LGTB crap do not wash with them.

So to justify moving PiS to the center of the political spectrum you have to:
- bring on their supposed conservatism (questioned by their own conservative voters)
- mention LGTBXYZ agenda
- provide whole history of implementation of cultural Marxism in western Europe

PiS agenda:
- bribing voters by their own money
- establishing more and more new taxes
- nationalization of the industry
- like other parties expanding bureaucratic apparatus
- creating more and more useless regulations (true EU mode) that they themselves fail to follow or even understand
- bringing on state financed Soviet/Chinese style monumental projects without even making any economical studies to justify such decisions
- even their Minister of Culture is a quite of a cultural Marxist

So it appears that PiS tried so much to become a socialist party just disgusting homosexuals and western Marxists make them look a bit of a centrists. Not really...

Partia Wolnosc - some BS I never heard about.

You live, and you learn, right? We will never reach any ideal solution but at least we should try to march in the right direction!

I'm talking about, tell that sentence to the rest of your fellow Poles, who took to the streets in the thousands to protest the PiS!!!

What are you talking about. Very few people care about this political quarrel. It has just two planes, personal and external:
- overtaking state founded posts in administration (central and regional) and state controlled companies
- this is the part of the battle between Germany and the US/Jews.
Ironside 46 | 8,791    
7 Jul 2018  #59
You never heard about Korwin-Mikke @Ironside?

Ah, another cluster of supporters mesmerized by a one pony trick Korvin - an eccentric extraordinaire.

ell that sentence to the rest of your fellow Poles,

F them! That stupid soviet rabble has no call to be called Poles.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble.

What bubble? You are being silly with your dogma and your guru Korwin, that what it is.

So to justify moving PiS to the center

I don't move them anywhere that where they are - in the non leftie world. Conservative and right wing PiS is called by the foreign press.
lesseronimus    
7 Jul 2018  #60
F them! That stupid soviet rabble has no call to be called Poles.

Mentally fanatical supporters of both mayor parties are on the same level. If you disagree with them you are either traitor or a freak. Political leadership is very contend with such polarization. Those voters are contend by same fact that their "enemies" lost elections.

What bubble? You are being silly with your dogma and your guru Korwin, that what it is.

This is you the one who mention Korwin. I'm curious what will you say when the old man pass away. How long he will be a good excuse to avoid discussion.

Conservative and right wing PiS is called by the foreign press.

They have no authority to make such distinctions.

Although in some sense they could be considered 'right-wing' of the socialist camp. If you put this into perspective, according to quote below (Wikipedia about Menchevik party) some specific sense of right-wing identify appears.

The right-wing of the Menshevik Party supported actions against the Bolsheviks while the left-wing, the majority of the Mensheviks at that point, supported the left in the ensuing Russian Civil War. However, Martov's leftist Menshevik faction refused to break with the right-wing of the party, resulting in their press being sometimes banned and only intermittently available.

Internal conflict are sometimes the worst. When you agree with somebody about every subject except two or three 'minor' issues. These minor issues from your perspective might look as almost essential and then hate starts.




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