Poland Parliament elections in October 2011

See what I think is, you don't actually read Gazeta Polska, this is why the above, is the only so called 'lie' you can come up with, because you assumed, since I mentioned it, that Gazeta Polska must have had it, since once again, you assumed, that I read Gazeta Polska. What is happening is, you are criticizing me for having an opinion about TVN and Polsat based on what Gazeta Polska tells me, when actually I watch TVN24, Polsat News and even occasionally Superstacja and make up my mind from that. You on the other hand probably make up your mind about a paper like Gazeta Polska based on what TVN, Polsat, Gazeta Wyborcza or other anti PiS newspapers tell you. I wonder if you actually read the paper regularly and then decide for yourself whether it is full of lies, or whether you just accept what those who dislike it say, that is is full of lies? This is why you do not want to argue about the media in Poland, you do not know about what the opposition media says, you just hear what the anti PiS media tells you about how awful they are. As for the media being political, of course it is, I already told you that. TVP is certainly is starting to get a little anti PiS now [since PO have put their guys to alter it], on issues like the crash it is still antil PO [but probably more anti Russian], but on other stuff I can see how it is turning. I would not say TVP used to be pro PiS, I thought it was neutral, this is why PO did not like it, because there was a lack of PiS criticism. The only truely pro PiS TV channel is TRWAM, but TRWAM do not pretend to be neutral like Polsat or TVN, they are PiS supporters and it is clear.


This is just it, they did not just fight political enemies, they also found guys in PiS who were also guilty of corruption and threw them out, this is why the coallition dissolved. It was not, you are guilty, only if you are in an opposing party, but you are guilty if you do something wrong. As it happened, most of the corruption was in the other parties. Anyway it was not just the political corruption they tried to stop but corruption in general.


I have not heard of the denial of proffesorships, but I'll try to look in to it. As for the TVP thing, if true, PO is hardly doing anything different now.


To comment on a previous post that you made as to why you live in Poland. This is a weird responce. Why Poland? There are probably plenty of countries with better governments where more 'fun things' are happening?

I know two brothers, in their forties, who cycle 18km six days a week to get their MOPS lunch. They have coal delivered free every winter. They are fitter than me but have repeatedly turned down offers of work. Why should they? Live isn't too bad for them.

I read it a few times and couldn't stop laughing - the whole thing is just trash journalism designed to appeal to the underclasses of Polish society. Nothing more, nothing less.

(for what it's worth, Rzeczpospolita does a grand job of being neither particularly pro-PO/PiS)


It was very heavily pro-PiS, and it was an utter travesty to see public media being used in such a way. It's one of the worst things about Poland - how, ever since the 1989 election, the public media has been manipulated by those in power. It's the reason why TVN grew so much - and one of the reasons why no-one pays the TV licence fee in Poland.


You should actually go back and read the diplomatic cables. The whole thing is clear - PiS couldn't get most/any of their programme through the Sejm without the help of the LPR/Samobroona, so Jaroslaw Kaczynski deliberately manipulated things so that PiS took the supporters away from Samobroona and LPR. The problem was - he didn't realise that the centrist voters (many of whom voted for PiS on account of the strong anti-corruption stand) were absolutely furious with him for having invited them into the Government to begin with.

If you look at the 2007 election, it's clear that the centrist voters flocked to PO in droves, while the Samobroona/LPR support went to PiS. Problem was - there were far more centrists than there were SO/LPR types. As a strategy, it wasn't entirely bad - but he should never have invited them into the government to begin with. That's what cost Jaroslaw Kaczynski so many elections - people remember the utter disaster that was the coalition.

The other thing - do you think Jaroslaw Kaczynski investigated his own father for corruption, too? Of course not.


Alas, they didn't do a very good job of it. The amount of witchhunts and using of public offices to hound political opponents was ridiculous in the 2006-2007 period. It was pretty obvious that they weren't very interested in touching their 'own' - but only their enemies.


It was after 2007 - Lech Kaczynski started really going crazy with his limited executive power. It was a shame - he took the Presidency away from being the figurehead position and took it into politics. But - I think he was manipulated by his brother.

TVP - they've all been at it. It's utterly ridiculous and TVP should just get closed down - I don't know why we're wasting money on it if it's merely a mouthpiece for politicians anyway.


There's a certain amount of energy here though - this is a country where you can be someone, where you don't have to 'pay your dues' nor suck up to people for years just to get a name for yourself. That's why I like it - it's a young country and the opportunity is there for everyone.

(personally, I'm sick to death of the whole lot - ex-Communists, ex-Solidarity - all as bad as each other)

A few times is not regularly but your mind was probably made up before then. I agree Rzeczpospolita might actually be neutral, well as neutral as it can be. I have not read it myself but I know people who say it is a decent, fair, even playing field newspaper.


I do not think it should be closed down. Most news channels are mouthpieces for politians. Even if TVP was pro PiS [it is not anymore], that would even it up. Since TVN and Polsat, and Superstacja. although I would not say Superstacja is really considered mainstream media, blatantly seem to be anti PiS [do not bother trying to tell me they are neutral], it seems fair that TVP was more on their side.

Rzeczpospolita suffers from one thing - it's still partially owned by the Polish Government. One accusation that was thrown at PO recently was that their attempt to sell that share was somehow "punishment" for supporting Jaroslaw Kaczynski - yet - does anyone really think that the Government should own newspapers? PiS actually scored a massive own goal after it was revealed that they were spying on Rzeczpospolita journalists - despite that same newspaper leaning (slightly) towards them.

But really - the only difference between Rzeczpospolita and Gazeta Wyborcza these days is that Rzeczpospolita tends to view things from a nationalist perspective while Gazeta Wyborcza views things more from a European/international perspective. Interestingly, unlike in the UK, there's no 'war' between those papers.

(interestingly, did you know that Rzeczpospolita used to be the mouthpiece of the Communist Government? No big deal, but an interesting footnote in history)


The problem is that it's manipulated by politicians on all sides. It's just nonsense - if Poland isn't able to have independent public media, then it should be closed down and the money used for better purposes. This country struggles to fund medicine for old people - why bother with a cash-sucking thing like TVP?


You'd think public TV would stay out of it though, no?


That was exactly the problem. PiS almost straight away manipulated TVP for their own agenda, and the private media turned on them as a result.


No such thing as neutral media in Poland. Although - "Tygodnik Powszechny" does a pretty good job of coming close. It might be a Catholic newspaper, but it's actually admirable for giving a platform to all views, not just the ones they personally agree with. It's by far the best "non-partisan" news outlet in Poland.


Public media shouldn't be taking *any* sides. It's funded with our taxes (well, except, no-one pays it).

Wouldn't you be pretty upset if the BBC suddenly took sides in an election campaign? I would be...

you must be missing out hugely on what is going on in Polish press delphi

delphiandomine


well Bronisław Wildstein has proven that we can have independent public media if you care to remember - it all depends on the will of those who are at the helm (I mean running the country)

Facts about elections: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_parliamentary_election,_2011

10 parties and organizations have registered their lists.

Here is the presentation of major 4 for people who know little about it:
The Citizens' Platform (PO) was created in 2001 by Andrzej Olechowski, Donald Tusk, and Maciej Płażyński (then Speaker of the Senate), former members of the UD and AWS parties. The Citizens' Platform is a group which represents the liberal electorate, private entrepreneurs and business circles, as well as all who want a wholesome and robust state based on a free-market economy and the principle of competition.

The Law and Justice Party (PiS) is a right-wing party which cherishes the traditions of independence and derives from the Solidarity movement of the 1980s. (...)

en.poland.gov.pl/Political,Parties,395.html

IT IS NOT BLOODY RIGHT WING. Gah. Perhaps socially, it is, but economically, it's further left than the SLD!


HAHAHAHA. As if - they're bigger socialists than the SLD are. They don't support the free market at all - if they did, why are they so utterly against privatising things and why are they courting support from Solidarność?


This is true, at least. I've always thought that the PSL would make a very viable 'big' party with their policies - but I guess they're happy being kingmakers.

Yes, they seem so when in opposition. However, when in power, they tried to keep finances in good condition and objected to pay rises etc. I still remember the long protest of nurses in front and inside Kaczyński`s office when he was a PM. It lasted a month or so because he turned down nurses` demands.

2007





pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bia%C5%82e_miasteczko

They are conservative, not Conservative. Understand Polish attitudes, tradition and history and that distinction should be manifestly clear.

PSL? Poland needs a PMSL party, sth akin to Lord Sutch's Monster Raving Loony Party back in the day. It would never work given the, ahem, earnestness here.

I've always thought of them as being "national socialists" (I know that's what the Nazis called themselves, but no relation) - they're willing to spend big on things that are perceived as being nationalistic, such as miners and shipyards, but not willing to spend money on things like education and health - because these things aren't "national".

we did have the beer party many moons ago

That could never have worked, Wrocław, as the people will have made the policies and not the politicians.

The Beer Party or beer parties??

twenty years ago the ballot paper was more like a book... with dozens of parties.

So, a bit like the Who's Who of Who? ;)

More exactly - 29 parties.

Crazy! :):):):):)

But that was a natural reaction of the Polish young democracy to 50 years of the totalitarian system.

We have gone a long way since then.

Many thanks for the info, pawian. It certainly gave me a laugh.

Beer party is gone. Polish politics is dead serious nowadays. Well, except for PiS` pranks. :):):): Even the clown Palikot has become very formal.

Much to my dislike :(

If he carried on insulting everyone and being a maverick, he might just have got enough votes to play "kingmaker" - can you imagine what PO would do if they were forced to grovel to him to support their government?

I think he burnt all the bridges - he has just published a book about his PO experiences. He describes what PO leaders do when drunk etc.

Delicious! :):):)

But he is a loser anyway. No book will help him to get to the Parliament. He is too antireligious for most Poles.

Good man, I admire his "I couldn't give a fuck" stance. Makes such a change!

The fact that he's quite a bit richer than most politicians probably helps, but hey ;)

(and even more reason why it would be bloody funny to watch PO beg Palikot for his votes...)

Two latest polls by different agencies:

12.09:

15.09

PO clearly wins - you don't have to go to the polls pawian :) ;)

:):):):)

I certainly will. And I am taking my wife who shares my views and we are taking our grandparents who will vote PO too because they say: We will vote whoever you do as you know better.

Not bad. :):):)

I hope you have a puncture on the way to the polls then hehehe :)

I wish my Polish family was as compliant(:

for those of you of a logical and intelligent persuasion, here is a link that will assist you in finding out who your local PO candidate is. All you have to DO is click on the map and find your okreg. This way you can compare their qualifications and competencies-I notice that PIS has no such link. actually if you compare PO's website it is infinitely better than the PIS website.

platforma.org/wybory/kandydaci

So do you know who your candidate is or in what order you will vote PAWIAN?

he doesn't need to - he only votes for PO so that PiS can't govern

Yes.
I have been thinking of posting my choice here for some time now.


That is an unfair supposition.

In Krakow I support Jarosław Gowin, No 3 on the list of PO candidates. As a devout Catholic, he belongs to the conservative wing in PO, is very independent and able to formulate wise objection to PO`s too liberal propositions. Wise, because he is tolerant and shows readiness to accept others` different point of view.

Additionally, he is an extremely placid person - I have never heard/seen him lose temper, raise his voce etc. He doesn`t abuse his opponents. When he argues, he uses reason.

I must say that his activity and character is impressive, IMHO.

In the latest Journalists` Favourite Parliament Member poll he won a place in the top 10. :):):):)

Looks like the elections will be invalidated and repeated and no one can do anything about it :D :D :D
youtube.com/watch?v=TWCOyDJ9OpE

There was a problem with registering some candidates of a minute right-wing party which is taking part in elections. I am not sure what it is all about. It seems they delayed registering their candidates and the law is not clear about it.