Poland Parliament elections in October 2011

Banana Republic?
That is my prediction of Poland's future if nothing changes.
Banana republic is a pejorative term that refers to a politically unstable country dependent upon limited primary productions (e.g. bananas), and ruled by a small, self-elected, wealthy, corrupt politico-economic plutocracy or oligarchy.

What insult? pawian = baboon ; dude, you crack me up !:D


Really? says who? You are not even Polish. However I'm going to vote in October 2011.(on topic)

Ironside. Yes, insult is your stock-in-trade. You can barely post anything without personally insulting another member. Believe me, this does not make you look reasonable or intelligent.

If you knew anything about contemporary Poland, you would know that it is as far from being a banana republic as it is possible to be. Your prediction will not come true. When the PiS-lead coalition was in power Poland was a laughing stock abroad; now it is a respected partner in international affairs.

Sorry if I was mistaken when I described you as an American. I was under the impression that you had U.S. citizenship and had pledged alliegance to that country.


That's right, although I don't catch the significance of 'even'. I just live here (in Poland), where I work hard, pay my taxes, take part in society and make informed choices at election time.

I think that you grossly exaggerate. I react to posts.


Really? How would you know?


Don't be absurd!
Neither Poland was a laughing stock, nor is a respected partner in international affairs.


I would say that my alleged U.S. citizenship is irreverent. On the Internet people post without revealing personal information about themselves,at least they shouldn't.

Yes, you react to them with insults and with nothing else.


Apart, of course from the fact that if you had it, you will have renounced all allegiance to Poland and we all know that people who betray Poland have no right at all to have any say in how Poland is run.

Under PiS, yes, it was.

I think you'll find they took the country back 30 years in the eyes of most observers.

Says who? Not the Polish law, funny that you not even Polish citizen would say all that, and do not repeat that mantra about you paying taxes.


Not really, some dudes where surprised that Poland has her interests and dare to voice it. Instead of obey what big boys agree to/


What observers?
Local trash had been signaling its distress because PiS was running about and shouting - bin-men are coming - yet, they never came.
:)

May I remind you that Lech Kaczynski signed Lisbon?

It was his worst hour - after all the abuse towards the EU, he chickened out and signed it. He didn't have to - all he had to do was wait until May, wait until the UK Conservatives got elected and bang - Lisbon wouldn't have been ratified. But no, he bottled it.

By the way - if they were sticking up for Poland's interests, why did they isolate Poland on the European stage?

F u c k the PIT-11 dude!I am not going to submit any PIT form until I see that it's actually worth it to do so.You can submit all kinds of PIT forms so the crooks can waste or steal your money but I won't.Period.

Arrbol.

Well said grubas. Thats the reason why a lot of Polish don't pay tax.

I know, there is no good choices, but maybe,just maybe he will be an obstacle for PO dudes, eh.....!


you quoted an answer to above in your post:)

I think we had this debate previously. You can be angry that he went ahead and signed it but if it was Komorowski he would have signed it even quicker without a thought.

I really hope PO do not win again but I fear they will. People in Poland are too stupid. They think PO is the modern way to go and PiS is old fashioned and backwards. They do not care much that PO is as corrupt as they get, as long as they continue the 'modernisation spiel' they should win. They want to have the Euro. Imagine if Poland had the Euro right now, what a mess that would be. PiS goes for the patriotic arguments that a lot of people seem not to care too much about, since PO won the last elections [although I have doubts about the fairness of the last elections. I heard about 1.4 millions votes were void].

95% of topics in the forum have been debated previously. :):):):)


No, people who think so are stupid. :):):):):)


Exactly. PiS belongs to 19 century, while PO to 20 century. There isn`t a party yet which belongs to 21 century. :):):):)


Spiel? Are you fekking German? :):):):)


PiS` patriotism is one giant humbug. They don`t even know the words of the Polish national anthem. :):):):) Wise patriots of Poland realise this and don`t vote PiS.


My humble advice - don`t be silly. :):):):)
Also, come to Poland, live here for a few years, and then formulate your opinions. I guarantee they will be much wiser than now. :):):):)

It doesn't matter. The point is that Lech Kaczynski sold out on the one thing that he claimed to stand against - for reasons utterly unknown to most of us. I can't understand why he did it - after all the ranting about the EU taking over, and all the POLSKA POLSKA stuff - he signed Lisbon. Hypocrite.


But you don't live here, so why do you fear it? You're not going to come regardless of who wins.


Nah, stupid is people saying "IM POLISH" and then refusing to pay taxes/reside here. False nationalism and all that.


That indeed is the case. I mean, modern people vote PO, while backwards village idiots vote PiS. Not much to say, to be honest.


Thing is, for all this claims of PO ARE CORRUPT, there's been remarkably little corruption going on. In fact, controls against corruption are getting stronger and stronger - I've wasted several days of my time dealing with anti-corruption stuff lately. But PO don't need to scream about it - because they're more worried about doing a good job.


Yes, some of us (who actually travel, unlike village-dwelling PiS voting drunks) don't like the fact that we lose money on currency exchange.


Why would it be a mess? Finland, Estonia, Slovakia, Germany and others are doing just fine.


You heard where, "Gazeta Polska" which publishes outright lies? In fact, one bad thing about Poland is that such lies are allowed to be printed freely.

As for the last election - if you actually knew a damned thing about Poland, you'd question why there was masses of people queuing up to vote in London when there wasn't in 2005. You'd also have heard the voice on the UK streets - "we're not going back if PiS win".

As for those patriotic arguments - hahaha. So much patriotism that they signed Lisbon..hahahaha.

Erm would this anger about him signing it have anything to do with you being Russian? You know that he sided with the European's and when someone does that the Russians feel it is a step against them? Like with NATO.


Well yeah but I still care about the country. I do not just look at what I can gain from it, I hope the country keeps its traditional values and is fair and just.


Not sure if that line is aimed at me but if it was, I never left Poland, I never lived there, so I never 'ran away.' My family is from there and I go there a lot.


A bit of a generalisation. I suppose it is not too dissimilar to what Adam Hoffman of PiS said about the people from the village who have gone mad that got an angry reaction.


Not sure where you get this information from but I would say there was actually quite a bit of corruption.


This is still totally normal for in many countries who have their own currency, to have to exchange money.


What about the countries going bankrupt or close to it?


Actually it is a fact that that many [or a similar amount, I know it was more than a million] votes were void and were not counted because they were filled in, supposedly, badly. A bit suspicious that so many would get a simple voting application wrong. All it takes is for the vote counters to add a tick or 2 and it's void. Anyway if you think that the newspaper Gazeta Polska publishes lies, I wonder what truthful newspapers you read? Gazeta Wyborcza probably.


I love how someone who is not Polish [I assume from what you told me in another post] is telling someone who is, that they do not know anything about their own country. Yet you seem to know so much. I also hear an awful lot of voices on the streets here and in the USA from people who are fed up of PO and want them out. Not to mention voices from people in Poland.

What anger? I'm glad he signed it, but I think he was a cowardly idiot who bottled it when the heat was really on him to sign. Poland actually was in a fantastic position to get more - they needed him to sign before May 2010 - and instead of extracting concessions (the opt out gained wasn't nearly enough) - he simply meekly signed it. Pathetic and cowardly.

As for me being Russian? Hardly. And he sided with Europeans? Eerr....you really need to brush up on modern history - his Presidency was marked by conflict with the EU and acting like a pathetic lap-dog.


Again, you're not here, so what do you know about traditional values? For that matter, what do you know about traditional values? Certainly, traditional Poznanian values are actually quite different in some respects than Krakowian ones - but hey, you're not here, you don't know this stuff. As for PiS promoting them? Well - you might just want to ask yourself about the things that their politicians have been involved in. I don't remember the name, but there was one guy who was screaming from the rooftop about family values - but..uh...he was having an affair at the same time.


Ah, Plastic Pole then. When you actually live here, you might get a clue.


Look at the electoral statistics. PO since 2007 have utterly dominated the cities and rural Western Poland, PiS are dominating small towns and villages in Eastern Poland.


No worse than PiS or any other government. And in fact, things are getting tougher and tougher - but hey, you don't live here, you don't deal with anti-corruption measures on a weekly basis.


And it's a problem for businesses and private individuals alike. Perhaps you might want to start by analysing the damage done by the Swiss Franc to Poland recently.


They're in that situation through their own inability to manage their countries, it's nothing to do with the Euro. Estonia is financially sound despite having to meet very tough criteria to join the Euro - because their government made difficult decisions.

Incidentally, Poland is riding the edge of trouble - and at one point, many people believed that Poland was going to fall - despite being non-Euro.


You know, you don't have a clue, do you?

Let's see what the PKW says about the 2007 Sejm election, shall we?

30615471 entitled to vote.
16495045 were issued ballot papers.
16477734 cast their vote.
16142202 were valid.

Where's this mythical "more than a million' votes? Ah - it's because Gazeta Polska told you so, and instead of actually checking with the PKW site, you believe what they say. Don't you realise that they have to sell papers, and to do that, they print whatever rubbish their readers want to read?

Jeez, I swear...some people. Stop listening to your village idiot family and use your brain, eh?


Perhaps you should pay attention to the opinion polls rather than what people are moaning about on the street. Still - let's agree that the election is in a month, and we'll soon find out what the people really want. By the way - as it stands - the PO/PSL coalition stands to be re-elected with ease. And we love it.

(as for the USA? They haven't got a clue - they think Busia is a Polish word, the morons)

You know what I noticed from your post. You don't know how to have a discussion. You attack and insult those who disagree with what you believe. You are so ignorant in what you believe that if someone thinks otherwise, then they have 'no clue.' There is no use debating with you and I now understand why so many people on the board consider you an absolute idiot. Oh and by the way, I am more Polish than you are ever going to be and care about the country more than you ever in your cold Russian heart, will, so go spout your crap elsewhere.

Where's those million void votes, eh? Still looking for them?

You don't have a clue, because you believe right-wing tabloid trash newspapers over the official statistics presented by the Polish electoral commission.

Oh, and more Polish than me? Remind us....how much tax have you paid to Poland in your life? Ah...none.

Plastic Poles really are the scourge of this country - they act as know-alls, but they know absolutely nothing from their foreign residence.

Instead of caring about the old country in which I and my family live, why don`t you fekking care about the country where you live? It would be much healthier for Poland. ):):):):)

He's another one of those who sits abroad and fantasises about this country. I don't get it - must be in the blood or something ;)

Hey, hey - I see he's a student who likes travelling. WielkiPolak - tell you what why don't you come over here for 2 weeks and I'll give you an insight to the Polish reality from an independent point of view? You'll soon see that *most* of the problems here are due to the mentality of people within the system, and have nothing to do with politics.

He thinks he is talking about main elections while he meant local councils elections in which many people go voting but don`t know how to (complicated system) or prefer to vote nobody and leave a blank card. There are always many void votes - in 2010 local council elections - 12%.

wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80708,8711907,12_proc__glosow_do_sejmikow_wojewodzkich_niewaznych.html

However, it is crazy to ascribe it to tricks by PO. Null votes were also common when PiS was at power.

2010 Presidential elections, much simpler, had 0.6% void votes.


Don`t blame him too much. He sounds a patriot of Poland who wants it to thrive and prosper.

The only problem is he put his bet on wrong people who are not able to make Poland prosperous because they are obsessed with air crashes, blames, agents and communists.

Pawian, in which way do you find voting in local elections complicated. I have already voted several times here in Warsaw. The only problem I see is the size of the ballot papers :)

It's what Gazeta Polska has been pushing for months now - it seems that they've realised that PiS can't win, so they're resorting to smearing the name of the PKW instead. Shameful.


I think it comes from being outside of the country - he probably doesn't see Kaczynski promising the Solidarity moustaches that he'll defend their right to turn up at 7, leave at 3 and do the same pointless (subsidised) job every day.

You really are a twerp. First you say I am not a true Polak because I have never lived in Poland. I suppose having a Polish name and family, speaking Polish at home, eating Polish food, reading Polish newspapers, going to a Polish Church, supporting the Polish teams in sports, going to Poland often etc is not enough? You on the other hand live [or lived?] in Poland and have much more right to speak out than me. Why do you even live in the country? Why did you leave your native land? Just curious about that.

Secondly. This Gazeta Polska crap. You go on and on. How about admitting reality and not being so biased? How about not acting like such a baby and insulting those who disagree with you by saying they do not have a clue? You are a class example of 'zarozumiały.' Let us tak a look at it from a distance, from a Sociological point of view. You do not like PiS, therefore you dislike Gazeta Polska, as it is pro PiS. I like PiS and therefore I do not like anti PiS media such as Polsat, TVN, Gazeta Wyborcza etc. People like the media that supports what they think and dislike those who criticise it, or praise ideas that they disagree with.

Nope, it's not. Until you deal with Poland on a daily basis, you've got no idea. Going on holiday once in a while means **** all - you only know what Poland is when you have to hang around a government office behind a bunch of drunks, just to get one paper - only to be told that there are potentially problems because you owe them money (even though you know that you've paid everything on time and owe them nothing). You don't have these experiences, so how can you comment?

Likewise, you can't comment about politics, because you have no idea. You don't see the drunk people and the vast amounts of people on early retirement, sucking up our pension contributions to pay for their lifestyle choices. Do you realise, for instance, that many of the people whining and complaining are the ones who benefit from our almost-40% of gross salary contributions to ZUS?


Because it has a good Government who are generally doing a good job, and fun things are happening here. As I said - you don't live here, you've got no idea.


What reality? You're the one that claimed that there were "over a million" invalid votes in the 2007 election...


They don't have a clue. If they did have a clue, they wouldn't keep around "electoral disaster" Kaczynski, would they?


No, I don't like Gazeta Polska because it's full of nonsense. The whole paper exists to provide a steady stream of rubbish to gullible people - nothing more. I've lost count of the amount of times that they've been caught lying - it's tabloid trash.


Try reading/watching the media you've mentioned, rather than repeating what you've read in Gazeta Polska. Most of the time, they aren't 'anti-PiS' at all - they just let PiS say their part and leave the reader/viewer to make their own minds up.

Tell me - how would you describe PiS as a party? I'm genuinely curious... (let's agree - no insults - just a description of them)

Okay and then the following quote.


So hold on. Things are so terrible, as you described in the above paragragh, and yet you like the job that the current government is doing? I see. Oh I am assuming this mess is all left over from the PiS era right? You realise you are full on contraditions? You did if before too. You said you were glad that Kaczynski signed the Lisbon treaty but spend a number of posts criticizing him for doing it.


Again, opinion based. Show me proof of them having told lies. I suppose that all the lies from other anti PiS media is true by your standards right? PO also had no corrupt polititions, it was all lies. No?


As it happens I watch a lot of it as they are the main media. My mother has it on all the time when she is at home as she wants to know what is going on and these are the mainstream media. The anti PiS bias is glaringly obvious and actually a little frightening. Not to say they never criticize PO, they do sometimes. Things in Poland are bad, so they have to. Do you want me to list you examples of when I have seen anit PiS bias in Polsat and TVN? I could do it, off the top of my head, if you want me to.


Well I would describe it as a party of patriots firstly. I know this is unpopular with a lot of people who think it is just a slogan and excuse not to do anything and criticise others as not being patriotic, but I really do think they are patriotic. Are they perfect? No. Are they going to sort all the 'bad stuff' out? No. However, they are not corrupt. They have previously thrown out people from their party who were corrupt. They did not treat them 'differently' because they were in their party. PO seems to find this difficult. They also find it difficult to throw someone out, who did a terrible job. With Klich, what did they do? They let him go after explaining that he has done a wonderful job. What sense does that make? If PiS wins I think they will

A/ Continue to fight corruption, hard.

B/ Have a proper investigation done regarding the airplane disaster in Russia. No accusations. A proper investigation with all the evidence there to examine, to find out the truth and then and only then, put the case to rest.

C/ Not make Poland a tiny land who just sits quietly in Europe and does what it is told, but make them a country that also has a right to have an opinion and disagree with certain rules and regulations if they feel that way.

D/ Improve financial situation in Poland, or try to. I have not yet had a look at their financial plan but they have one and I think J. Kaczynski talked about it recently in an interview on Polsat. PO had a plan to make the country in to a new Ireland, it failed. Perhaps PiS can have a go now?

Rome wasn't built in a day. Many things are utterly endemic - you cannot expect a government to change everything overnight. But really, the only areas where they're truly failing are education and KRUS. Apart from that - everything else is okay and changing for the better. But hey - what can the government do about drunks taking up time in ZUS? Nothing, really.


I'm glad because it meant Poland wasn't going to act like a spoiled child in front of the entire Union - and anyway, Lisbon was/is a good idea. But I criticised him for being a weak coward - is it that hard to understand?


You could start with their recent nonsense about "invalid votes" in the 2007 election.

But enough - no point arguing about the media in Poland. It always was, and always will be political. TVP until recently was horribly pro-PiS, for instance.


The problem is that they didn't fight corruption - they fought political enemies. That was what alienated a lot of the "centre" voters - they voted for anti-corruption, but they got political witchhunts instead. If they had truly focused on corruption, they would've retained a lot of those voters. For instance - would you call spying on journalists "anti-corruption"?


What makes you think that the Polish military and civilian experts aren't telling the truth? I mean - if you say -


Then - surely the very definition of patriotism is -



If you look at the history of the PO government, they've been doing just that. But in a far more civilised way - instead of screaming publicly, Poland has been quietly (and effectively) building alliances within the EU. That's the way to get things done in modern Europe. During the PiS Government, Poland was getting pushed to the sidelines - but now, Germany is regarding Poland more and more as a partner to be relied on.


What you need to see is that PiS are actually in a bad situation with this. Unlike the other parties, PiS are committed to maintaining Poland's welfare/subsidised State. The problem is that there's no money to do this - and PiS haven't presented any proposals for how they would deal with this. It's pretty obvious to anyone who follows this stuff that Poland needs to make some pretty big cuts after this election - even the SLD have admitted that a balanced budget matters more now than socialist subsidies. This puts PiS in a hell of a bad position - if they get elected, they're going to have to go back on their pledges and hurt a lot of their core electorate.


Sadly, they are - you should examine what kind of nonsense they were upto. Did you know, for instance, that many professorships were blocked by Lech Kaczynski if they weren't PiS members/supporters? Or - did you know that they loaded the board of public television with their own "men" - to the point of ridicule?

I think it's a great shame that the pre-election 2005 PiS never actually materialised, though.

Like a spoiled child? That's a bit unfair! If things need some tweaking then so be it. However, blind intransigence isn't the way forward either.

I don't think PiS really know how expensive MOPS and other social schemes can be. When you make it attractive then people will flock in their droves. Britain is a disaster now as a result. The nanny state has given people a safe bailout.

On the contrary I think they succeed in that. Almost, give them a little more time and they will reduce number of polish residents to an approbate number.

delphiandomine
blah blah .....Haven't decided yet are you that stupid or that biased.

The UK must really be driving you mad, isn't it?


Good good, the more peasants/stupid people that leave, the better Poland will be!

Your BS is getting tenuous.


Again, thank you for your honest opinion; much appreciated.