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Poland's 'oburzeni' (indignant)?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
16 Oct 2011 #1
Saturday's protest by disgruntled youth in Warsaw was rather lame (several hundred participants), but it does reflect the malaise affecting much of ther younger generation. They are opposed to a lack of job opportunties after graduating and 'smieciowe umowy' (trashy job contracts which exclude benefits, paid holdays or old-age pensions). Above all the unfair distribnution of welath, as they claim to represnet 99% of the people as opposed to the 1% privileged oligarchs. Placards opposed 'the tyranny of the market' and urged people to 'ignore the media, find out on your own'. Will this movement take off in Poland? There is always the danger that a crackpot like Palikot will try to highjack the protests for his own poltical ends. Whaddya think?
catsoldier 62 | 596
16 Oct 2011 #2
I don't think that this movement will take off in Poland. The young people can leave and go somewhere with better conditions instead of trying to change things or waiting for them to change.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
16 Oct 2011 #3
Good thread, Pol3. Many young Poles are disillsioned with the lack of opportunities they have. It's the same in Scotland where too many people are chasing too few jobs and it will lead to social unrest. Dishonesty is in many places and is a bit like negotorium gestio in legal affairs.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,731
16 Oct 2011 #4
They are opposed to a lack of job opportunties after graduating

Those lack of opportunities are largely down to their own incompetence. I'm recruiting at the very minute for someone, preferably not long graduated - and while the subject studied isn't important, what's important is work experience in a relevant setting. I don't care if they've studied history, geography, biology, whatever - but I expect them to have gained some experience in an office environment during their studies. Fooling around the mountains during the holidays is *not* how to get hired.

That's the real problem in Poland - "I HAVE PAPERS AND I EXPECT A GOOD JOB AS A MANAGER", because - that's how it worked during Communism.

and 'smieciowe umowy' (trashy job contracts which exclude benefits, paid holdays or old-age pensions).

Trashy people tend to get trashy contracts. Good people get good contracts - it's the way of the land.

Will this movement take off in Poland?

No. The sensible, educated classes will never back it - and they will forever be seen as the ones who simply expect life to hand everything to them on a plate.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
16 Oct 2011 #5
Good people get good contracts? Hmm....to a point, yes. I'm not entirely convinced of that.

It's not for them to back, delph. It's for people to make a stand and they may well do that in due course.

Point taken about papers. Geez, they really overplay the importance of them here.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,731
16 Oct 2011 #6
Good people get good contracts? Hmm....to a point, yes. I'm not entirely convinced of that.

Well, look at this way - I know someone who has an amazing contract with an amazing salary by Polish standards, at the age of 26. She got there through many, many long nights - even now, she doesn't get much more than 5 hours sleep a night. But she worked for it - it wasn't handed to her.

Point taken about papers. Geez, they really overplay the importance of them here.

It's ridiculous - for the job I'm trying to find someone for, the requirements are simple - relevant work experience, a degree in any subject at any grade and fluency in English. Even the degree part can be waived for 'the right person'.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
16 Oct 2011 #7
There are success stories in many places, delph, but I know many more people who haven't been afforded the opportunities that she has had. It's the same in Scotland.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,731
16 Oct 2011 #8
Truth is, she made herself - while jealous, bitter people suggest "connections" and so on - I've seen her with huge piles of books, studying into the early hours of Saturday/Sunday morning. She worked hard during her studies, had a lot of relevant work experience and so on. But those who studied something crap like history and di **** all during their studies except party and go for holidays are the ones now sitting in supermarkets earning 1,500zl.

The problem is that the young generation here almost expect people to hand them "manager" on a plate along with a phone, a car and so on - and they get angry when they don't get it.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
16 Oct 2011 #9
Anyone know why all of a suddent the youth of the world are protesting? The mad-dog reovlution of 1968 led by the hatemongering Cohen-Bandits and their ilk also transcended borders but that was before globalism. Is what is going on at present only a global copycat phenomenon or is there any basis for the protests? How, if at all, will they affect the fat, satiated, mythical 1%?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
16 Oct 2011 #10
Will this movement take off in Poland?

Rather not. I don't think it can be spinned into anti-PiS protests, It would have to be anti-government in nature and then you can forget about support of mainstream media and "elites" in general and it's very difficult to do something here without their blessing.

There is always the danger that a crackpot like Palikot will try to highjack the protests for his own poltical ends.

Palikot was designed to weaken SLD, not PO, so I don't think so... besides it's just after elections, he won't give a damn about voters for the next +3 years.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,034
16 Oct 2011 #11
Well, look at this way - I know someone who has an amazing contract with an amazing salary by Polish standards, at the age of 26. She got there through many, many long nights - even now, she doesn't get much more than 5 hours sleep a night. But she worked for it - it wasn't handed to her.

I wonder what she did in those long nights to get the contract, and with who?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,731
16 Oct 2011 #12
Exactly my point - bitterness is rife here. Strangely, such people that voice such opinions tend to be the ones who are nobodies themselves, and who cannot imagine sitting with books all night rather than partying/watching tv/etc.

Usually it's seen among those who want to party and have a good time, rather than focusing on their career.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
16 Oct 2011 #13
In Italy the protest have taken on an ugly vandal twist (smashing shops, burning cars, numerous injuries). PAP is reporting ther vandalism of a church where hooded thugs broke into a parish and smashed a statue of Our Lady of Lourdes. Polish text follows:

16.10. Rzym (PAP) - W czasie gwałtownych sobotnich zamieszek w Rzymie, wywołanych przez setki chuliganów, dokonano zniszczeń w jednym z kościołów w centrum. Włoskie media opublikowały nagranie sceny, gdy banda wandali wtargnęła do parafii i rozbiła o ziemię figurę Matki Bożej z Lourdes.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,731
16 Oct 2011 #14
In Italy the protest have taken on an ugly vandal twist (smashing shops, burning cars, numerous injuries). PAP is reporting ther vandalism of a church where hooded thugs broke into a parish and smashed a statue of Our Lady of Lourdes. Polish text follows:

Even more reason to make sure that such protests never take hold here, then.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
16 Oct 2011 #15
It is very difficult to have people take to the streets even to back the most noble cause or justifiable demands without hooligans joining in. Solidarność was a notable exception. Wałęsa used to say the peaceful "S" revolution took place without a single pane of glass being shattered. There was one excpetion, when an irate crowd attacked and burnt down a polcie station in Otwock and Kuroń was sent in the pacify their ire. But considering the breadth of the protest, that one incident cannot change the overall evaluation.
pawian 161 | 9,971
16 Oct 2011 #16
=Polonius3]Saturday's protest by disgruntled youth in Warsaw was rather lame

Lame? What did you hope for? Scenes like in Rome? Millions of euros damage, injured people, burnt cars, demolished church?

Did you really want to see it in Poland?

Are you really such a moron or only pretending one? :):):):)
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
16 Oct 2011 #17
On the contrary, Palikot is stupid...like a fox! Jerzy Urban predicts Tusk will become president 4 years from now and Palikot in the term that follows. Palikot will not sit back on his laurels

but will be expanding his base. The youth protests are a true gift to such an ambitious politico. His mvt has not onyl an anti-clerical but also a vaguely anti-establishmentarian theme, so buikding on it and cathing the wind of grass-roots protest in his sails seems a logical manoeuvre.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
16 Oct 2011 #18
crackpot

I wouldn't call him that. A showman maybe, but he is very shrewd and increasingly popular.

The protest in Warsaw wasn't a riot, it wasn't like the protests Spain (with 40% youth unemployment), it wasn't even another Greece.

"I HAVE PAPERS AND I EXPECT A GOOD JOB AS A MANAGER",

This has long been the case in some European countries.

In Poland, the mass emigration to the UK and Ireland was a safety valve - it helped ease (though didn't solve) a lot of problems more or less overnight. That option has gone now.
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
16 Oct 2011 #19
PAP is reporting ther vandalism of a church where hooded thugs broke into a parish and smashed a statue of Our Lady of Lourdes. Polish text follows:

yes, because that plays to their audience.
I bet they are not reporting the fact that the Clergy of St Pauls cathedral in London ordered the Police from the steps in order to let the Protesters set up a camp on them . Effectivly giving Church Sanctuary to the protestors against the so called forces of law and order, go figure that one into your jew fearing paranoia.... :)

Go Clergy Go Clergy Go Clergy !!!! :):)
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
16 Oct 2011 #20
those who studied something crap like history

Dopeyandomine you are being an ignorant myopic fool when you denigrate the study of history.
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
16 Oct 2011 #21
Des, in the UK History CAN be a soft option for those of slim inteligence , often done to the most basic level possible and then touted as being some super qualification for all sorts of careers.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
16 Oct 2011 #22
Effectivly giving Church Sanctuary to the protestors against the so called forces of law and order

Very true.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
16 Oct 2011 #23
Des, in the UK History CAN be a soft option for those of slim inteligence , often done to the most basic level possible and then touted as being some super qualification for all sorts of careers.

That's strange. Here in the USA there is a major in "Communications" for that.
JonnyM 11 | 2,621
16 Oct 2011 #24
soft option for those of slim inteligence

Generally something one does if they can't get on a science course. However as usual, Dessie is trying to take the thread off topic.

The so-called oburzenie is very much a copycat thing. There is genuine discontent, but not enough to bring people out on the streets. Basically, PL has a stable economy, a popular government and (the capital at any rate) is growing. But in Poland people are aware of what's happening elsewhere and the jeunesse doree don't want to feel outdone.
emha - | 92
16 Oct 2011 #25
But those who studied something crap like history

:) like PM Donald Tusk
time means 5 | 1,310
16 Oct 2011 #26
like PM Donald Tusk

And David Starkey.

Delph only has a GCSE in woodwork.
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
16 Oct 2011 #27
That's strange. Here in the USA there is a major in "Communications" for that.

Would that be " Media Studies" here in the UK? ;)

Delph only has a GCSE in woodwork.

More valuable than a lot of Degree's these days :)
Its funny, but Im the first in my family not to have a degree in something,but Ive always worked alongside or "above" people with them ...at the end of any day,its only a piece of paper that can sometimes get your foot in a door, if you clearly have no real life skills its as worthless as yesterdays toilet paper :)
hythorn 3 | 580
16 Oct 2011 #28
its only a piece of paper that can sometimes get your foot in a door, if you clearly have no real life skills its as worthless as yesterdays toilet paper :)

a lot of doctors would argue with you there

don't try and tell me it is not what you know it is who you know as practising medicine without a license in still illegal :-)
time means 5 | 1,310
16 Oct 2011 #29
that can sometimes

FAO hythorn "sometimes"
hythorn 3 | 580
16 Oct 2011 #30
I would hate to be picking an argument with you Sir
however if you have a degree in medicine you have a very good chance of getting a job as a doctor
not having a degree in medicine is considered to be a bit of a drawback in these cases


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