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Nigel Farage voice of reason for Poland and EU?


Seanus 15 | 19,706
12 Aug 2010 #32
I'll think three times if you wish but what good would that do? Farage represents one of the last bastions of democracy, a stalwart that will expose the Eurocrats for what they are. When he speaks, he speaks for the broader application of democracy.
sascha 1 | 826
12 Aug 2010 #33
Farage would raise the case for the redeployment of democratic tools. There needs to be a return to EU citizens having more say in how they are governed.

Agreed, but I think it's hardly going to happen. Maybe I am wrong. Hope so...
It needs more than one dedicated guy to turn things around. ;-)
Now everybody, especially those who run the show in EU, is afraid to loose its role.;-)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
12 Aug 2010 #34
Well, the very appointment of Von Rompuy and the largely inexperienced Ashton go to show that they don't really care for a meritocracy. They care more for getting people that won't rock the boat in. That's why Tusk and Kommie will go down well with them.

Some of them know that the game could be up but they will rigidly cling to their positions for as long as they can.

youtube.com/watch?v=aI79ClhwAhM
here he is on Polish tv. The interview is in English with no subtitles.

I think and hope he will enlighten Poles and instill some healthy scepticism. He needs to engender doubt.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
15 Aug 2011 #35
youtube.com/watch?v=aI79ClhwAhM, here he is on Polish tv. The interview is in English with no subtitles.

I was impressed with this interview; very common sense...He supports sovereign states and decision making...Reading this forum sometimes it seems as if people crave someone to give them orders.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Aug 2011 #36
He gave up a career in business to pursue this avenue in life. Sb had to do it and he is doing a sterling job.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
15 Aug 2011 #37
I was impressed with this interview; very common sense...He supports sovereign states and decision making...Reading this forum sometimes it seems as if people crave someone to give them orders.

But you do realise that the whole point of the EU was to bring the States so close together that they could never again fight each other in a bloody war?

The very founding of the European Coal and Steel Community was to ensure that France and Germany became inter-dependent on each other - after 3 vicious wars in the space of 70 years, enough was enough.

Seems to be working, too.

He gave up a career in business to pursue this avenue in life.

Bear in mind that the perks aren't too bad as an MEP.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Aug 2011 #38
Delph, that's not an excuse to appoint unelected Eurocrats. Look at how those wars started. Leaders tend to make wars and it was just unlucky that Hitler and Stalin were around at the same time. Just because a couple of madmen rose to power, doesn't mean that the rest of us must be subjugated to unelected goons like Van Rompuy and Lady Ashton.

The perks are quite good, yes, but he has earned them.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
15 Aug 2011 #39
Delph, that's not an excuse to appoint unelected Eurocrats.

Why not? If it stops another war in Europe, I'm quite happy to go ahead.

Incidentally - they aren't unelected. They're chosen by the leaders of the EU countries - who are elected by the people of the countries. Not 'unelected' at all.

Just because a couple of madmen rose to power, doesn't mean that the rest of us must be subjugated to unelected goons like Van Rompuy and Lady Ashton.

As I said - they were elected. We, as Europeans, voted for people who then voted for them. I hope that in time, we'll see a directly-elected European President to represent the EU - but this is a first step.

For what it's worth - Van Rompuy at least seems to be doing a pretty decent job of coordinating a common European position. That's good, right?
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
15 Aug 2011 #40
But you do realise that the whole point of the EU was to bring the States so close together that they could never again fight each other in a bloody war?

If you believe that, I have some nice beachfront property in Arizona to sell you...Quite nice....You can surf there, too.

The ******** who allowed and perpetrated WWI & II are the same as the Euro bureaucrats, only they are called globalists or whatever now...I think the European peoples themselves oppose any more bloody wars, just as they did back in the day...It is unaccountable leaders, their ideologues and bankers who are the driving force behind war...Of course, they cry crocodile tears when the flow of blood and the stench of bodies gets to be too much.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Aug 2011 #41
They are chosen by what, 27 leaders? Do you know how many people there are in the EU, delph? Any idea? Why do you think Farage constantly calls for a referendum? Eh, democracy anyone?

Delph, even Hitler had more legitimacy than they did. The people were allowed to vote in national elections. What elections were in place to vote Tweedledee and Tweedledumber in? Letting statesmen decide is merely allowing the club to handpick their elite or can't you see that?

Are you aware that Rompie gets more than Obama? Obama was voted in by how many people? Please remind me. What was Rompie's majority?
Babinich 1 | 455
16 Aug 2011 #42
As I said - they were elected. We, as Europeans, voted for people who then voted for them. I hope that in time, we'll see a directly-elected European President to represent the EU - but this is a first step.

For what it's worth - Van Rompuy at least seems to be doing a pretty decent job of coordinating a common European position. That's good, right?

Question: In all of this EU mess, is nationalism on the rise or the decent?
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
16 Aug 2011 #43
It's on the ropes, is what it is...In the globalist mentality, all nationalism (except for Zionism) is bad, because it supposedly leads to wars...The mass media, MSM, constantly sings the globalist tune, and nationalist movements are shunted to the side, or described as 'extreme right wing'...This is a distortion, because there is a difference between nationalism and fascism...While co-operative initiatives between sovereign states is desirable, decision making by an unelected elite, serving the rich ruling classes, is not.

Unfortunately, consumerism and television have led to a weakening of the thought process on the part of the masses of people.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
16 Aug 2011 #44
sings the globalist tune,

And very good too.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
16 Aug 2011 #45
I have nothing against the type of globalism that refers to, say, 'technology makes the world smaller' or even Hillary Clinton's 'it takes a village', but my problem lies when things get too big...Mankind has a lot of big dreams, but they inevitably get out of hand, whereas I feel that most problems can be addressed on a smaller scale with better results...As Farage correctly points out, the bureaucrats in Brussels are extremely well paid, but who do they represent?...And the heads of the Euro commission are all unelected.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
16 Aug 2011 #46
Mankind has a lot of big dreams

The problem is that there aren't enough. The UN is the way forward.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
16 Aug 2011 #47
but who do they represent?

They represent one damned good thing - the existence of the European dream.

You're in America, you wouldn't understand. But for those of us living here, we value the ability to drive to Germany to do some shopping, free from pesky border guards interrogating us and searching our cars.

Heck, I'm just about to place an order for circa 20k Euro worth of goods. No stress, no worry - even though they're coming from Germany. If I ordered them from America, I'd have to deal with Customs and all sorts of tedious headaches involving the importation. And *that* is what the EU has done for us.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
17 Aug 2011 #48
But you don't need an EU for that, just an agreement between Poland and Germany.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
17 Aug 2011 #49
And an agreement between Poland and Denmark, Sweden, Lithuania, etc etc.

The whole point of the EU is that it allows things to be decided on a European level - and - allows solutions on a European level too.

Ask yourself - where did the cash come from to secure the Eastern border?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
17 Aug 2011 #50
Delph, please answer post 42 if you will. I'd like to hear your views on those matters. Ta, min ;)
Barney 15 | 1,520
18 Aug 2011 #51
Nigel Farage voice of reason for Poland and EU?
Terrible man, pandering to the lowest common denominator, a real populist a rabble rouser without a rabble.
The guy doesn’t have a clue how domestic policy is formulated or how international relations work, who trots out "its not democratic" about any given issue he disagrees with. Following his advice would lead to more red tape and corruption.

=delphiandomine]Incidentally - they aren't unelected. They're chosen by the leaders of the EU countries - who are elected by the people of the countries. Not 'unelected' at all.

Exactly

Those shouting for referenda should ask themselves why elect Politian’s if not to make decisions. They instruct the civil servants who do the job of implementing the policy.

Look at California where you have un elected big business manipulating ballots. With referenda you would have the death penalty for the baddie of the day (dependant upon the tastes of news editors) and so on.

Politian’s are elected to lead and make decisions through their civil servants.

Farage just doesn’t like funny foreigners, the man is an attention seeking one trick pony.
sascha 1 | 826
18 Aug 2011 #52
Farage just doesn’t like funny foreigners, the man is an attention seeking one trick pony.

...what is nothing unusual these days in politics or let's better say show biz ;)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
18 Aug 2011 #53
It doesn't detract from the fact that referenda still have a role to play and ignoring them willy-nilly is a smack in the face to democracy. You are simply allowing a precious few individuals to shape reality for millions of individuals. If you call defending democracy one trick, God help you.
sascha 1 | 826
18 Aug 2011 #54
If you call defending democracy one trick, God help you.

i mean basically u r right, but where do u see democracy? ;) for me the actual systems called like that would have to be redefined in another way. maybe that's worth to open a thread? ;)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
18 Aug 2011 #55
That's the point, sascha. He is fighting for national referendums to give people a say. Back to Lincoln style politics :) :)
sascha 1 | 826
18 Aug 2011 #56
fighting for national referendums to give people a say. Back to Lincoln style politics

i personally would go one step further...to mix lincoln style that with the greek one of a say, of course without the brutality :)
Seanus 15 | 19,706
18 Aug 2011 #57
You are now officially on a hitlist somewhere, sascha ;0 ;0
Barney 15 | 1,520
18 Aug 2011 #58
It doesn't detract from the fact that referenda still have a role to play and ignoring them willy-nilly is a smack in the face to democracy. You are simply allowing a precious few individuals to shape reality for millions of individuals. If you call defending democracy one trick, God help you.

It's really where you draw the line with referenda as Cameron has found with his e-petition thing. Politians are elected to lead, certainly listen to interested groups not pander to them without leadership nothing would change.

Farage's defence of democracy? He doesnt offer anything beyond a call for referenda, his vision would increase red tape with 27 plus sets of regulations instead of one which is both costly and open to corruption because when you have a border or law you have the potential for abuse.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
18 Aug 2011 #59
The call must be made, though. As a populist, he can create interest in the issue and appeal to the man on the street. Think about it, you vote a leader in what, once every 4 years? So why can't you likewise put big decisionS out to the people? Or do you blindly trust the leader to serve you without your input?
Barney 15 | 1,520
18 Aug 2011 #60
Where do you draw the line on referenda look at California the state which is what the 6th largest economy in the world (I think) was almost bankrupted by the voter write in bill. People want essential services preserved and lower taxes, turns out essential services means different things to different people just like big decisions mean different things to different people.

Democracy isn’t perfect but the one thing it allows is the ability to implement unpopular or unfashionable decisions. Populists rail against this for their own selfish reasons, Farage is a little Englander each country has them.


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