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"It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland)


Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,745
21 Oct 2018 #1,411
The fact is though that no matter how hard Germany earnestly tries to atone for the sins of the fathers,

That's the question...which Germany do you mean?

This Germany where millions of citizens not only don't have german roots but have heritages from former victim countries of the Nazis?

What have they to atone for?
dolnoslask 6 | 2,934
21 Oct 2018 #1,412
Nothing it's over its nowt to do with your generation so you need to atone for nothing, but lest we all remember the horrors of past history and not make the same mistakes.

P.S just stop referring to "Polish death camps" in your press and keep out of Polish politics and all will be kline.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,745
21 Oct 2018 #1,413
P.S just stop referring to "Polish death camps"

I'm sure they are working on that...
Spike31 3 | 1,813
21 Oct 2018 #1,414
We have had a net immigration of 100k from Poland for almost a decade by now.

After 2015 many of them have started moving back to Poland. I personally know a few Polish families who moved back, not only from Germany but also from other western countries like Sweden.

The reason? => Sudden refugee influx and improving job market in Poland.

And I'm talking about families with kids in schools, and not some young mobile digital nomads. A regular folks who are concerned enough to quit everything and move back.

This will be visible in future statistics.
Tacitus 2 | 1,354
22 Oct 2018 #1,415
Spike, look at the statistics, they are giving a better picture than some limited personal experience. Net migration to Germany from Poland has actually increased, and there have been quite a lot of articles how Polish families have helped stabilizing dying communities, especially in Western Pommerania.

who are concerned enough to quit everything

Perhaps some individuals, but the trend goes in the opposite direction. You can see the same (if not more pronounced) with Hungary. Orban is constantöy ranting about refugees, while all the young Hungarians are leaving. Well, Germany does benefit from it, but it is still sad seeing a country bleeding out.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,053
22 Oct 2018 #1,416
That's what immigration apologists say. What they don't say is how many immigrants is too many.
Why? Because the first statement is effortless. The second one requires work and is not popular with the brainless masses and the ruling class, as it could lead to a conclusion that the limit has been exceeded long time ago. That, in turn, would mean that we would have to shut down immigration immediately - a totally unacceptable move in the world of political correctness.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
22 Oct 2018 #1,417
Spike, look at the statistics, they are giving a better picture than some limited personal experience.

Now now, he's trying to spread propaganda on here, how dare you quote statistics?

Net immigration was around -0.4 from what I remember, meaning that Poles are still leaving Poland.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,745
22 Oct 2018 #1,418
Spike, look at the statistics,

Spike doesn't like polls, surveys and statistics so much....numbers generally are a problem....he prefers personal opinions...

...and there is another aspect:
(That is an article from January this year)

The Poles who have sought sanctuary in Germany from their 'stifling' homeland

thelocal.de/20180105/the-poles-who-have-sought-sanctuary-from-their-stifling-homeland-in-germany

There are three quarters of a million Poles living in Germany. While most come for economic reasons, some young people say they could no longer be themselves under conservative rule back home.....

A polish opinion just for Spike:

...She can't imagine returning to Poland now, saying that in Berlin, "the atmosphere is free."

Of course there is also a statistic for Orban's Hungary:

According to the latest statistics of KSH (Hungarian Central Statistics Office), 25,000 people left the country.....
....
According to their data, 25,100 Hungarian people left their homeland behind in 2017
...
On the other hand, 2015 broke the record with 32,850 people emigrating.

dailynewshungary.com/how-many-people-do-you-think-emigrate-from-hungary-latest-statistics

The most popular destinations are Germany (32%), Austria (27%), and the United Kingdom (17%).

Germany is THE immigration destiny in Europe...not only for Africans or Muslims, but also for Eastern Europeans...astounding. As everybody knows how hated and despised Germany is...not to mention overrun by rapists and knife murderers...and still the people keep coming...leaving their own clean, orderly, safe, muslim-free countries in droves.

I wonder why that is...

That is for Dirk:

Just add the numbers and you will see that the european immigration to Germany offsets any african/muslim immigration by far....

There is absolutely no danger for Germany to become a muslimized or africanized country or whatever you fear so much! We are already thoroughly polonized! :)

And now please put that record down and play another one, thank you....
Dougpol1 31 | 2,640
22 Oct 2018 #1,419
We are already thoroughly polonized! :)

Yes, and the PIS Pole dislikes immigration, and blacks/Asians in particular. Strangely it doesn't stop them from emigrating to Western Europe though.
Strange (insert prescribed level of sarcasm here_______)
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,745
22 Oct 2018 #1,420
It really seems that young people have alot less problems with all these foreigners swarming their streets...

It's probably only us old geezers worrying to much!
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,861
22 Oct 2018 #1,421
all these foreigners swarming their streets...

the verb ' to swarm' is usually used for insects. Any reason why you are likening people to insects? Nice bit of de-humanisation there. Only to be expectd.
johnny reb 47 | 6,798
22 Oct 2018 #1,422
Actually when "swarm" is used as a verb it could be insects, birds, fish, etc.
Used as a verb in that sense it could mean come together, assemble, congregate, meet, gather, etc.
So B.B. was correct in using the word swarm to describe the migrants on the streets.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,861
22 Oct 2018 #1,423
I don't agree, being a linguist. Swarm is invariably used for insects. Using it to talk about people is dehumanising them. And we all know where that leads.
johnny reb 47 | 6,798
22 Oct 2018 #1,424
I am no linguist Roz however are you saying that a swarm of bees doesn't fall under my examples of:

Used as a verb in that sense it could mean come together, assemble, congregate, meet, gather, etc.

Isn't that what bees do ?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,861
22 Oct 2018 #1,425
yes well you take my point. It's not the best choice of verb. The first two definitions in any dictionary will mention insects.

A bit like when right wing newspapers choose verbs such as 'swamped' or 'flooded'.
Ziemowit 14 | 4,278
22 Oct 2018 #1,426
the verb ' to swarm' is usually used for insects. Any reason why you are likening people to insects?

Used as a verb in that sense it could mean come together, assemble, congregate, meet, gather, etc.

My "Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English" says the following:

swarm - verb [Intransitive]; to move in a crowd or mass: As the fire spread, people came swarming out of the building. | The photographers swarmed round her.

However, BB was using swarm as a transitive verb (foreigners swarming their streets), so perhaps this is where the difference in usage lies ...
johnny reb 47 | 6,798
22 Oct 2018 #1,427
The first two definitions in any dictionary will mention insects.

The first definition of swarm in any thesaurus (used as a verb) will refer to migration.
Yes Z, you are 100% correct, thank you.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,861
22 Oct 2018 #1,428
thefreedictionary.com/swarm

As I said, it's dehumanizing. In my opinion.
Atch 22 | 4,098
22 Oct 2018 #1,429
Here we go, a nice long article about it here. Those of us with an attention span of less than five minutes can scroll to the end for the conclusion:

oxforddictionaries.com/2015/08/13/words-in-the-news-a-swarm-of-people/

However you can take note that the Oxford English Dictionary is apparently the only modern dictionary to acknowledge the potentially negative connotations of the word when applied to people. I always go with the Oxford on all matters related to the correct usage of English.

Please focus on the topic, everyone
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,053
22 Oct 2018 #1,430
Swarm is invariably used for insects. Using it to talk about people is dehumanising them.

That's why I use "human garbage". That Honduran human garbage moving toward us is both human so we can't shoot them and garbage because nobody wants them.

The same applies to Germany.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,861
22 Oct 2018 #1,431
Rich Mazur, you are 'human garbage'.

That is why you have to say stuff like this, as it's the only way you can get any attention.

You are a sad lonely old man, probably sitting there in your dirty underpants wondering why nobody in real life likes you.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,745
22 Oct 2018 #1,432
the verb ' to swarm' is usually used for insects.

Maybe I should have put it in " " quotation marks....

But if someone WANTS to misunderstand there is nothing to stop him!

I wrote a long post about immigration and THAT little word is what you put your claws in....are you kidding me?
Ziemowit 14 | 4,278
22 Oct 2018 #1,433
Maybe I should have put it in " " quotation marks....

It's OK, you shouldn't worry about this. My Longman dictionary dates back to the 1990s and at that time no one had ever imagined the verb "swarm" to be negatively linked to the noun "immigrants" or "refugees" as political correctness was probably unheard of at that time.

You'd better watch out not to use the term "send someone into Polish death camps". Such a term (in die polnishen Vernichtungslager) was used on the website of the "Augsburge Allgemeine" in the article entitled "Der steinige Weg der Juden in Bayern" on 20 October, but after the Polish embassy in Berlin protested against it, the passage has been changed accordingly into:

Aus der jüdischen Gemeinde Fischach konnten noch 1939  42 Menschen auswandern, 56 jüdischen Fischacher deportierte die Polizei 1942 in die deutschen NS-Vernichtungslager auf tschechischem und polnischem Gebiet und nach Theresienstadt.

augsburger-allgemeine.de/bayern/Der-steinige-Weg-der-Juden-in-Bayern-id52496081.html
Tacitus 2 | 1,354
22 Oct 2018 #1,434
@Bratwurst Boy

Just add the numbers and you will see that the european immigration to Germany offsets any african/muslim immigration by far....

Indeed, especially of you consider that European migration to Germany has been high since the start of the Euro debt crisis in 2009, which üredates the refugee crisis for several years.

Net migration from the EU has been over 400k last year alone.

Indeed, 2017 saw more arrivals from Eastern Europe than refugees.

google.de/amp/s/www.thelocal.de/20180412/growth-in-germanys-foreign-population-driven-by-immigration-from-eastern-europe/amp
johnny reb 47 | 6,798
22 Oct 2018 #1,435
The difference is that the European Immigrants arrived to work, learn the language, acclimate, follow the laws and contributed to said society.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,745
22 Oct 2018 #1,436
You'd better watch out not to use the term "send someone into Polish death camps".

I think I can safely say the polish protests have made their point. German journos became aware if this carelessness now...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,745
22 Oct 2018 #1,437
The difference is that the European Immigrants arrived to work, learn the language, acclimate, follow the laws and contributed to said society.

Thing is when people use these immigration numbers like for example a high percentage of german children with foreign parents or such, they imply it's all black muslims now taking over.

That is a lie by omission...or...FAKE NEWS! :)

But somehow it fits them better to repeat these numbers and build an image of virtually "overrun" countries, which will probably soon not only change their form of government and their main religion but also their skin pigmentation and traditions!
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,861
22 Oct 2018 #1,438
THAT little word is what you put your claws in....are you kidding me?

no, not at all. Personally I think word choice is very important, very telling. But then as I already said, I am a linguist.

Take for example, that very famous speech by Winston Churchill (we will fight them on the beaches...etc) Every single word was carefully chosen by his speech writers, and every single word was Germanic based (eg the language of the people) except for the only French based word (the language of the ruling classes) which was 'surrender'.

See what I mean?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,745
22 Oct 2018 #1,439
Well...you know that is an international discussion board where many members have a different native language than English. And nodbody here writes their posts with an Oxford diary beside them.

A bit lenience or a short question about their meaning would work much better than a strong accusation plain in the face, I can grant you that!
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,861
22 Oct 2018 #1,440
And nodbody here writes their posts with an Oxford diary beside them.

of course not, that is why I am pointing it out. Do you not think the power of words is interesting?
Personally I always thought you had a very high level of English, BB. I am not accusing you of anything, btw.

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