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"It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland)


rozumiemnic 8 | 3,674    
5 Oct 2018  #931
exactly Maf., that is what I imagine will happen, eventually.

Or they will ask 'the great British public' to vote again....
Tacitus 1 | 641    
5 Oct 2018  #932
At least now the people know the consequences of leaving, or at least can not pretend to did not know.

The Brexiteers can no longer hide behind empty promises like "Easiest trade deal in history" or "Have the cake and Eat it".
mafketis 16 | 6,008    
5 Oct 2018  #933
At least now the people know the consequences of leaving

Your vindictiveness is a bit puzzling, why is it so important for countries to stay (or to punish them if they don't want to?)

And the harder the Brexit the more other countries are wonder if they want to stay at the tender mercies of the petty Brussels bureaucrats or make a break for it, even if it hurts a bit in the short run...

The EU should be a matter of free association and not a ball and chain!
TheWizard - | 322    
5 Oct 2018  #934
The uk needs to know what a load of bs they have been sold and who sold it to them on false pretences with questionable partners and tactics. After that if they still want to leave good luck to them. The EU has it's rules if they ( the uk ) dont want them fine. Its nothing to do with spite. Just the same if you leave your job and no longer get anything like you used to, your problem. The EU needs to keep spelling this out and if they leave the club they should be aware what this entails, the British public needs the EU to tell them as the Tories are not trustworthy and truth to them is what they made up that morning. The consequences of leaving one of the worlds best economic zones have been spelled out time and time again, only the dimwitted or the dishonest still dont get it. Anything that happens as a result of this is pretty much on the corrupt tory scum and their braindead followers. There will be undeserving casualties but that happens every time democracy is hijacked by such radicals which makes the flow of factual information very important which is hard in the UK as Murdoch is one of the worlds biggest a holes and owns a lot of media. Good luck uk, you are going to need it.
Tacitus 1 | 641    
5 Oct 2018  #935
Your vindictiveness is a bit puzzling, why is it so important for countries to stay

I have no issue with the UK leaving. But the way the Leave campaign mislead and lied the British is just disgusting, of course the British are also culpable because they chose to believe those lies. Still it would be better to have a second referendum now when the British people seem to actually know what they are voting for.

stay at the tender mercies of the petty Brussels

You seem to be widely misinformed about the reason behind the position of Bruessels during the negotiations. The reason why the EU negotiators are so "hard" (or rather realistic) towards the UK is not because of some "petty" bureaucrats, but because of the position of various EU governments, each of which has a veto during the negotiations. The EU is not hard on the Irish border question because of vindictivness, but because Ireland said that it would veto any deal that would hurt its' interests. The EU does not offer a separate deal on free movement, because various EU governments (among them many Eastern Europeans) do not want that. And so on.
Crow 143 | 7,293    
5 Oct 2018  #936
You giving too much attention to Germany. Germany is past. France shall dominate.

What remain of EU, after it crumble, would be dominated by France and not by Germany. Germany itself would dissolve. France is that multi-ethnic motor within EU that have developed engine of assimilation which turns all Europeans and all populace of former colonies into the French identity. France is embryo of that USA of Europe. With its assimilatory capacities and with support of Vatican with its `universalistic` approach, unique identities will be erased and replaced with new identity. That is the mission of France and Vatican in Europe and, not only Europe. In parts of North Africa that will be annexed, too.

That is where Duda leads Poland. In that.
TheWizard - | 322    
5 Oct 2018  #937
Wow crow France will rule the world? It just seems you are still bitter over the allies bombing and taking out Yugoslavia and all that. Not going to blame you. One of the dumb things uk did was activate this after many years of Poland receiving the most money but in the not too distant future Poland will pay money and it will be someone elses turn. It's like getting a mortgage, paying 90% off and walking away. So dumb and bs number 223 of the uk's brainwashing by whoever.

Want to blame someone crow? Blame the stupid asses who put those people in concentration camps and all the rest. Those pictures freaked the world out, it's like the nazis came back in Serbia. The struggle with the kebab heads was totally ignored after that. It was a stunning pr failure after which citizens of western countries wanted you stopped. Your leaders had no idea how to deal with it in a way as to win support. The played the crap on our tellies day and night.
Crow 143 | 7,293    
5 Oct 2018  #938
Forget it man. I am pretty clear with that what happened. It happened exactly what those outside who created crisis wanted and it was aired on TV again exactly what they wanted or rather it was not aired what they didn`t want to be aired but they wanted to happen. I hope you follow me.

Now, France. No, France not rule the world but that what remain from EU after inevitable collapse. This pumping of migrants into the Germany is nothing but Frankinized Germany. While this level of inter-mixing with non-Europeans represent still something new to Germans, its not a news in France. So Germany is kaput. Oblivion. Past.

And sure France would secure domination of Vatican in that what will be created, as one among powers of Multi-Polar world.

This way or another, I am utterly happy to know that Serbia won`t be part of it, to put cross on myself.
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,725    
5 Oct 2018  #939
And sure France would secure domination of Vatican in that what will be created, as one among powers of Multi-Polar world.

So it's the US, China, EU, and Russia. And Vatican? A bunch of homos who spend most of their time covering their crimes against kids?

Tell me you are joking.
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
5 Oct 2018  #940
@Maf,

As I keep explaining and you keep rejecting, the lady is, typically for her generation, so traumatized by memories of that country's "recent" past, she's moving

as though in lock step with what she's been taught to think, namely, "We Germans must try to reverse our history by taking care of all within our country!"

Her almost '68er mentality refuses to acknowledge that today's Germany is, on the surface anyway, quite different from the painfully divided, economically struggling
post-War (East) Germany in which she grew up, until Pastor Kasner decided to move with his family to the West in or around 1959 or so.

The sixties coddled these red-diaper dope babies to the hilt; anything left of center, African, Asian etc. was "good", anything European, conventional, Western, was "bad".

Merkel's heroes were probably Castro, Che and Mao, not realizing still that it was precisely those political extremists whom Europe later came to reject wholeheartedly during the "Velvet Revolution" in '89, from which she along with others finally benefited:-)

As with many of her ilk here in the US, Angie still doesn't get it.
Tacitus 1 | 641    
5 Oct 2018  #941
You know Lyzko, I believe you have the wrong picture of Merkel. Merkel never claimed that Germany needed to help all refugees, or indeed showed much empathy for them. It was in early 2015 when she received much criticism for her seemingly cold treatment of a young Palestinian girl on television. Her refugee policy was less about the well-being of the refugees and more about the stability of the EU.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,870    
5 Oct 2018  #942
Why would you want them back,

I was just asking because you kind of blamed the Brexit on Merkel...as if it would made a difference for the Brexiters who sits in the chancellery in Berlin...

But I see scapegoating the EU for every british pimple is still en vogue with some Brits! :)
Crow 143 | 7,293    
5 Oct 2018  #943
So it's the US, China, EU, and Russia. And Vatican? A bunch of homos who spend most of their time covering their crimes against kids?

It becoming clear to me. You people lack my angle of viewing and so you are still blind- we former Yugoslavians sow all kind of social experiments on us and we understood machine. So >

1 - North American civilization (including Britain and Ireland, plus Australia)
2 - South American civilization (around Brazil)
3 - Asian civilization (around China)
4 - Mediterranean civilization (western Europe and North Africa around France and where is main domain of Vatican)
5 - Eurasian civilization (around Russia)
6 - South African civilization (what remains of black Africa around South Africa)
7 - Israel (or Israel will join in Mediterranean civilization or with Central European civilization if it is formed)
8 - Hindi
9 - Japan (or will join in Asian civilization)
10 - Central European civilization (eventually, if bigger powers don`t split us among themselves; as we see Russia do have interests to let us live as unique civilization as buffer zone but, France and Vatican push for as bigger as possible `universalistic` Catholic racily-mixed society around France)

These are the major civilizations by Huntington >

h

source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations

By all development Huntington mistaken with Islamic civilization. It will probably be split among other players. That`s why Europe itself Islamized- aim is to prepare ground for annexation of great chunks of Northern Africa- Austrian politicians already talk of it.

As for Poland particularly, it will be hard. It may be tear apart. This time Poles beware of Vatican not of Russia. And never ever trust to France. France is the biggest monster. France is real BORG from nightmares, eater of the worlds.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,870    
5 Oct 2018  #944
Her refugee policy was less about the well-being of the refugees and more about the stability of the EU.

Now that didn't work that way, didn't it?

Her "opening the border" (even as this is a misconception) threw a kind of big cog in the german and european wheel...and then since Silvester 2015 nothing was quite the same anymore as before...stability she got not!
mafketis 16 | 6,008    
5 Oct 2018  #945
you kind of blamed the Brexit on Merkel...as if it would made a difference who sits in the chancellory in Berlin...

I don't blame it on her or anyone (since I don't think blame is the appropriate response). But neither she nor her vision of Europe appeals to many people beyond those making a living in Brussels and maybe? some Germans? It's hard to look at her actions in 2015 beating Greece into eternal debt servitude (treating it essentially as a defeated enemy) and then slobbering over a bunch of random non-refugees from Morocco to Bangladesh (treating them as a essential to Germany's future) and see much appealing there (except for ideologues who agree with her).

The leave campaign was based on emotional arguments that British people feel/felt about the UK. You don't beat emotional arguments by chirpling about economics (esp when most people assume that said policy will only benefit financial scamsters and bankers). You beat them by more resonant emotional arguments and for the remain campaign fell short and was essentially pathetic.

The UK public was never crazy about the EU and the EU should recognize that and try to remain friendly relations as it gravitates to a Norwegianish or Swiss kind of status.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,870    
5 Oct 2018  #946
4 - Mediterranean civilization (western Europe and North Africa around France)

Now after Huntington there is no "mediterranean civilization"...in his map of cultures all of Europe belongs to the same civilization....

You made up your own civilizations Crowie! It's all only in your own head...

But neither she nor her vision of Europe appeals to many people beyond those making a living in Brussels and maybe? some Germans?

Now that is quite not true...in most european countries the majority is pro-EU and don't want their countries to leave. Curiously these numbers did rise during the Brexit-Bruhaha.

There is no "domino"-effect Farage dreamt off. Not even the Greeks want to leave the EU....and they should know better, shouldn't they! ;)

PS: And right now the numbers of Brits who would also rather stay in the EU has tipped to the majority too...
Crow 143 | 7,293    
5 Oct 2018  #947
You made up your own civilizations Crowie! It's all only in your own head...

Of course. I thought its clear. I gave Huntington`s map for comparison with my observation. I think that development in global politics support my stance.

And BDW, even on Huntington`s map Europe is split among several civilizations. Even if you talk of EU as of Europe, you again mistaking. By Huntington Bulgaria, Serbia, Montenegro, etc countries won`t go with western Europe. With this I agree in any case, in every scenario.

"mediterranean civilization" is just working title
mafketis 16 | 6,008    
5 Oct 2018  #948
Now that is quite not true...in most european countries the majority is pro-EU and don't want their countries to leave.

Yes, countries on the continent are mostly pro-eU. But... even so, do they want Merkel and her policies to take precedence over their own? In their hour of need do they want to be treated the way she treated Greece? At a moment of crisis do they want her making decisions for them?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,870    
5 Oct 2018  #949
And BDW, even on Huntington`s map Europe is split among several civilizations.

Na ja...most of Europe...

But... even so, do they want Merkel and her policies to take precedence over their own?

Well...that doesn't happen anyhow...

And for what are you keep using the Greeks? Britain isn't in the EURO zone and had nothing to do with it. And nobody forced the Greeks, they could have left anytime.

But Greece never wanted to leave the Eurozone nor the EU...aren't they a bad example to show the "meanness" of Merkel?
Crow 143 | 7,293    
5 Oct 2018  #950
Na ja...most of Europe...

Half of geographical Europe.

But I truly doubt Czechs and Slovaks would be separated from Serbians. Then comes the Poland, too. It will be painful. Serbians will lose parts of their old ethnic lands. Vatican is just too powerful. Only, only if Central Europe exist as unique civilization we Serbs can hope for reunion over ethnic lines, no matter religious provenience Catholic or Orthodox.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,870    
5 Oct 2018  #951
You know Crowie...I will spend you a beer if you find a Pole on this board agreeing with you and wanting to see future Poland being part of some Slavic Empire along with the Russians and with it's capital in Belgrade.....or a Czech...or a Slovak...
Crow 143 | 7,293    
5 Oct 2018  #952
Well, you don`t need to push me too hard. I am pretty convinced that Poland goes with western Europe. Development suggest such a conclusion.

Czech rep. and Slovakia are something else.

But you forgot something. If Poland goes to western Europe then anyway won`t be capacity for formation of Central European civilization. So, Serbs, Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgarians,.... can be attached only to Eurasian Union. At least we will have Slavic language as official, while Poles will be learning in schools how is being Slavic something ugly.

If we don`t have Central European civilization
mafketis 16 | 6,008    
5 Oct 2018  #953
And for what are you keep using the Greeks?

Because they are a supposed ally of Germany which has treated them like a defeated enemy? Two elections in a row had their results put aside in favor of Germany. So... that's why.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,870    
5 Oct 2018  #954
Because they are a supposed ally of Germany which has treated them like a defeated enemy?

Defeated enemy?

Tell that the little german taxpayer as he was told to cover for the greek self-made debts with BILLIONS.

Without the support of other Eurozone members Greece would had gone totally broke...and not because of an error of Merkel. If at all it was a greek mess from the beginning. They shouldn't have cooked their books and german politicians shouldn't have handled that currency as a political tool to further the political unification of

Europe.
THAT's where it all started...not with Merkel.
Crow 143 | 7,293    
5 Oct 2018  #955
Guess what. If we have Central European civilization, there I signs, that it won`t be quite as we in Europe desire. Most probably Turkey will be attached to Central European civilization. And not only Turkey of now Islamic countries. Possible even Israel.

No, don`t ask. But there are signs

That if we have Central European civilization and option is Europe to be split between three civilizations- around France and western Europe, Central Europe and Eurasian Union.

To make workable, these civilizations will need space. So it will spread on now Islamic world. Look on green zone on Huntington`s map. To get something we will all lose something.
Crow 143 | 7,293    
5 Oct 2018  #957
Thank you
mafketis 16 | 6,008    
5 Oct 2018  #958
the little german taxpayer as he was told to cover for the greek self-made debts with BILLIONS.

The German taxpayer was told to pay for bad investment decisions by private German financiers... of course they blamed that on the Greeks.

And the Euro is fatally flawed with no common fiscal union and/or transfers.... there was no reason to let Greece in the first place (or Spain or Italy for that matter) and the decision should be made to cut them all free softening the short term consequences as much as possible. The Euro is not a currency it's a debt creation scheme.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 8,870    
5 Oct 2018  #959
Totally agree! But you see...it has nothing to do with either Germany wanting to treat Greece like a "defeated enemy" nor with Merkel. She and the german taxpayer had been left to clear up this long before started mess as best as they knew how...

It's useless and also plainly wrong to accuse them of some machiavellian, malicious conspiracy scheme or to picture Greece as some hapless innocent in all that.

That was the point...
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,663    
5 Oct 2018  #960
Oh please the Greeks screwed over the Germans completely and then had them clean up their mess. Then as a thank you to germany they sent all the migrants arriving on their shores northward to help them reach their intended welfare haven and promptly begin leeching.



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