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"It's too late for Germany" (but not for Poland)


delphiandomine 87 | 16,884    
23 Sep 2018  #781
Your point of view is somewhat limited and narrow, as your understanding of what is going on around you.

What's your view on PiS dramatically increasing coal imports from Russia, Ironside?
Crow 146 | 7,594    
23 Sep 2018  #782
We are so little for the reasons and problems of gods that walk on Earth, who rule us. Its just sad to me to see how once proud people, branch of Sarmatians (ie Slavs), facing humiliating destine. So genesis of things are interesting to me. Fact that they were same as rest of us Slavs in not that deep past and then chain reaction of events led them to here where they are now. If it is them, then it could be us. Why not us? Why them?
Tacitus 1 | 765    
24 Sep 2018  #783
The Russians have statistics

Imaginary statistics perhaps. The Russians never invested anything in the GDR.

Unlike the EU in which every expenditure is accounted.
Ironside 47 | 9,251    
24 Sep 2018  #784
Imaginary statistics perhaps.

The point G(undercover) was trying to make - In the same way the Soviet Union was using propaganda and falsified or bogus statistics to support its claim about it alleged economical support of its satellites. The EU are doing the same. Do you get it now?

In fact policy of the leading EU countries is to maintain artificially economical differences between them and EU countries in eastern Europe rather than aim at eliminating them as they claimed.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,867    
24 Sep 2018  #785
Unlike the EU in which every expenditure is accounted.

Yeah and no one has ever skinmed off the top or awarded eu contracts to their own companies or their family/friends companies...
Dougpol1 26 | 2,146    
24 Sep 2018  #786
At least these EU contracts are for sensible projects Dirk. In my area of Katowice, pre 2004, the cousin of the chief engineer allegedly got first go. He built a lot of beautiful roundabouts in our housing estate - all completely unnecessary in the scheme of things, a deliberate abuse of public funds, and only because the budget "had not been spent".

Corruption of the worst order - where the result was feck all in terms of infrastructure and progress for the local inhabitants in terms of living standards. That was Poland pre 2004. The corruption map of Poland was deep red - "bettered" only by Italy - and that's really saying something when Poland could beat certain other states for corruption.

The EU showed Poland that such shite was no longer going to go.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,867    
24 Sep 2018  #787
Poland has never had a high level of corruption for the region. It's not germany but its certainly better than ukraine belarus russia and eu countries like bulgaria romania etc. Polands corruption is small amd has been going down each year. The worst imo was the 90s esp with privatisation and bribery but even then it was nothing like the other post Soviet countries.

Transparency International's 2017 Corruption Perception Index ranks the country 36th place out of 180 countries. It is the eighth successive year in which Poland's score and ranking have improved in the Index.

Its corruption rating has improved under both po and pis.

The EU showed Poland that such shite was no longer going to go.

Corruption was the worst in 2005 according to transparency international...

tradingeconomics.com/poland/corruption-rank

Corruption Rank in Poland averaged 44.95 from 1996 until 2017, reaching an all time high of 70 in 2005 and a record low of 24 in 1996.

So it actually ranks better than places like spain, south korea, etc. Out of thr eu countries it ranks below france portugal and slovenia but better than lithuania latvia cyprus czechy
Tacitus 1 | 765    
24 Sep 2018  #788
The EU are doing the same. Do you get it now?

No I do not get it, because this entire comparison is nonsensical. The EU is not using propaganda when it points out how immensely beneficial EU membership been for Poland. Those are simply facts, supported by many economic indicators.

Trying to draw parallels between the Warsaw Pact and the EU is a ludicrous endeavour. You would have to abandon all ration to do so.
Lyzko 18 | 5,285    
24 Sep 2018  #789
Quite! Rather like comparing apples and oranges.
jon357 65 | 13,619    
24 Sep 2018  #790
how immensely beneficial EU membership been for Poland. Those are simply facts, supported by many economic indicators.

A good reflection is the high approval ratings in PL for EU membership. The changes have been profound when you compare today's Warsaw to the way it was pre-accession.

Trying to draw parallels between the Warsaw Pact and the EU is a ludicrous endeavour. You would have to abandon all ration to do so.

That's pure comedy, isn't it. About as far apart as it gets.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,867    
24 Sep 2018  #791
Trying to draw parallels between the Warsaw Pact and the EU is a ludicrous endeavour. You would have to abandon all ration to do so.

A better comparison would be EU and soviet union, as the eu constitution borrowed much and parts are based off the Soviet unions.
And thats what the eurocrat leaders wish to do - turn the eu into one big socialist federation amd strip individual countries of their sovereignty and national identity and replace it with a multikulti single european state. But its not gonna work - not in poland anyway.
Tacitus 1 | 765    
24 Sep 2018  #792
A comparison of the SU and the EU is just as asisine. Though I guess if someone only watches Breitart, he might start to believe any bs.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
24 Sep 2018  #793
turn the eu into one big socialist federation

You know that a federation offers the most possible souvereignity to the countries/regions, do you?

You are mixing the federal system with a centralized "superstate". IMHO a federation is highly attractive, any centralized system not. The SU was extremely centralized, only Moscow counted, nothing else.

In a regional federation (Europe of Regions) on the other hand, the weight and influence of every region would be even stronger than in their original centralized member countries, think about that Dirk!

blog.unitee.eu/archives/from-our-magazine/it-is-time-for-a-europe-of-regions
Dougpol1 26 | 2,146    
24 Sep 2018  #794
@Dirk diggler
Sorry Dirk, but your post simply backed up what I stated - which was basically that Poland was massively corrupt, and no longer is so - because of EU instilled accountabilty.
G (undercover)    
24 Sep 2018  #795
At least these EU contracts are for sensible projects Dirk.

Jesus, are there no limits on the amount of bullshit one guy can spread ?? EU is known worldwide for ridiculous "projects", one could write dozens of books about them. Everyone can easily google up some examples.

The EU showed Poland that such shite was no longer going to go.

The most corrupted country in EU is actually one of its "founding fathers", which clearly shows your "point" is utter nonsense, as always.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,867    
24 Sep 2018  #796
what I stated - which was basically that Poland was massively corrupt, and no longer is so - because of EU instilled accountabilty.

That why is according to transparency international the lowest level of corruption in 1996, pre accession while the highest level was in 2005 - a year after accession.

Poland has never had a massive corruption problem since the PRL years. Poland is far less corrupt than many eu states like romania italy czech republic hungary bulgaria the baltic states etc and is roughly equal to slovenia, france, spain, etc.

You know that a federation offers the most possible souvereignity to the countries/regions, do you?

No it does not. Being an independent sovereign state gives a country the most sovereignty.

Poland will never give up its sovereignty and independence and erase its borders, culture, identity to become just a state or region in the EU suprastate. We fought too hard for our independence and freedom to exchange rule by nazis, soviets, the partition powers for the EU

A comparison of the SU and the EU is just as asisine. Though I guess if someone only watches Breitart, he might start to believe any bs.

Doesnt change the FACT that eu constitution was modeled on the soviet unions.

See this is what leftists always do... when you present a fact or statistic they dont like they always change the topic and disparage the person either by calling them racist xenophobe or whatever other ist ism od phobe they can think of OR say well you got it from a right wing source so theres no possible way it could be true...
G (undercover)    
24 Sep 2018  #797
The EU is not using propaganda

Not at all ! You are just a "believer", just like your grandparents believed in the moustache guy, you believe in the holy EU and holy EU can do no wrong by default.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
24 Sep 2018  #798
No it does not. Being an independent sovereign state gives a country the most sovereignty.

Not if it's alone and tiny....even a middle sized country with a middle sized economy will have to be always thoughtful and considerate of the bigger kids on the near by play field. Total souvereignity has always been an illusion. Even North Korea would get real problems should China decide to take it's umbrella away.

That's why alliances are so popular. It's a five finger versus fist thing...That's why the EU was, is and will stay so popular. There is no other way for a smallish country to get a place on the top table together with the real big guys.

Poland will never give up its sovereignty and independence and erase its borders, culture, identity to become just a state or region in the EU suprastate.

Nobody wants it's culture or identity erased, who told you that?
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,867    
24 Sep 2018  #799
Yes but poland is large enough, has a large enough population and ranks as thr 21st to 23rd largest economy (depending on whether its imf world bank or cia estimating) so we donr need to give up our sovereignty. Even tiny states like Moldova or estonia or vanatu or sri lanka prefer to be sovereign. African states fought their colonial masters because theyd rather be sovereign even if it means theyre poorer. Tgeres even several states that are unrecognized by un that rather be sovereign than give up their fight and just become part of some larger country.

Nobody wants it's culture or identity erased, who told you that?

Well thats what would happen if the eu became a multikulti socialist suprastate like the ussr. Thats the desire of numerous eurocrats like juncker schultz.merkel verhofstadt etc
G (undercover)    
24 Sep 2018  #800
That's why the EU was, is and will stay so popular. There is no other way

No othrer way, oh my... Now seriously Butt, why are you dudes pimping the whole thing so much when you are supposedly the largest not "payer" in it ?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
24 Sep 2018  #801
Yes but poland is large enough, has a large enough population and ranks as thr 21st to 23rd largest economy

Erm...what do you know about polish history? How many times got Poland partitioned, vanished even of the map, got invaded, occupied?

And that was "only" about military power...the future wars will be trade wars...the world is about to be parted into spheres of influences of continental blocs. The EU will make sure that one of these super blocs will be european. We will then be able to have a voice against the asian, eurasian and the american blocs...

For them Poland alone will not even be a blip on the radar!

ESPECIALLY the Poles should see the advantages to be a member in the European Union, ffs!!!
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,867    
24 Sep 2018  #802
Erm...what do you know about polish history?

A lot. More than any other country. How could a person not know the history of their own homeland and place of birth?

How many times got Poland partitioned, vanished even of the map, got invaded, occupied?

A ton and each time we fought for freedom and independence so we sure as hell arent going to give it up willingly. Even when poles knew theyd be obliterated in the warsaw uprising they still fought valiantly. Same with westerplatte
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
24 Sep 2018  #803
Then you should know what the vaunted independence and souvereignity did for Poland, shouldn't you...
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,867    
24 Sep 2018  #804
ESPECIALLY the Poles should see the advantages to be a member in the European Union, ffs!!!

Yes and most poles support the eu for the free movement of goods and people and the funds its given us. Poles do not however appreciate the eu meddling in our political and domestic affairs. We never signed up for that. We never imagined in 2004 the eu would be telling us how to run our courts and what amd how many people we should take into our country. Just because support the eu doesnt mean were going to erase our borders and willingly give up our sovereignty just to become some region of the eu.
TheOther 5 | 3,579    
24 Sep 2018  #805
the future wars will be trade wars.

You are arguing with people who would prefer to live in the 1930s, BB.
Vesko Vukovic - | 23    
24 Sep 2018  #806
Nobody wants it's culture or identity erased, who told you that?

Strobe Talbott the US Deputy Secretary of State during the Bill Clinton administration.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strobe_Talbott

1

You need to wake up Bratwurst Boy, it's like you and many others are living in a fantasy world full of delusions...
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,867    
24 Sep 2018  #807
Then you should know what the vaunted independence and souvereignity did for Poland, shouldn't you...

So youre saying poland being an independent sovereign nation is a bad thing? Well most poles think otherwise. Very few poles are in a rush to lose their country

You are arguing with people who would prefer to live in the 1930s, BB.

Why because i along with the vast majoroty of polish citizens want pur motherland to remain a sovereign independent country? That makes us people whod rather live in the 30s? Wtf kind of logic is that lol
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
24 Sep 2018  #808
Well thats what would happen if the eu became a multikulti socialist suprastate like the ussr.

First, "multi kulti" is the counterpart to "mono kulti". You would have a point fearing the loss of cultural identity if anybody would plan a mono-kulti EU...but even as most countries already are the EU, a union of our multi-kulti countries, could logically be nothing else than multi-kulti itself! Meaning a multitude of cultures side by side! :)

I actually think it is impossible to make the EU to a mono-culture. That's something not even the SU achieved.

And I'm right beside you disliking a future centralized supra state...as are millions of EUians...and that also is not planned, as far as I know...
Dougpol1 26 | 2,146    
24 Sep 2018  #809
Poland has never had a massive corruption problem since the PRL years.

Source please. I will try to find mine. In 2000, Poland had the second highest corruption rates west of the Ukraine, bar Italy. I seem to remember Portugal was on a par. EU accession fixed that -not the Poles themselves suddenly deciding to be honest citizens.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,327    
24 Sep 2018  #810
So youre saying poland being an independent sovereign nation is a bad thing?

I was saying that total independence is an illusion (besides being the US or China for that matter). I doubt there is one european country which could really claim total independence and souvereignity.

So as a goal it's useless. And it could even become hurtful if, in your desire to achieve it, you ignore the "real politik" in your neighbourhood.


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