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Jerusalem Post: Poland's good intentions


PennBoy 76 | 2,437
12 Jun 2011  #1
Poland would offer restitution to all victims of the Nazis, Jews included, if only...

Ironically, the ancient Hebrew maxim, 'he who encompasses too much encompasses nothing at all,' applies to contemporary Poland.

Poland's post-communist regime is a case in point.

Its parliament is willing to grant restitution not only to Jewish survivors of the Nazi Holocaust, but also to people of all nationalities whose property was confiscated by the Nazi and communist regimes. The Polish legislators blame their purported inability to fulfill their good intentions on the domestic financial consequences. They contend that the cost would add $6.3 billion to the national debt. Prime Minister Donald Tusk believes the projected restitution will be feasible only when (and if) the country's economic situation improves.

This contradicts an unusually upbeat ad published in the International Herald Tribune at the behest of Poland's Ministry of Treasury, the text of which states (in part): "Poland is currently one of the fastest developing economies in Europe. It has ranked for several years among the EU leders in terms of GDP growth. Leading international financial institutions estimate that Poland's economy will grow by between four and 4.2 per cent in 2011."

jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=224579
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,683
12 Jun 2011  #2
...
Those who are losing out include not only Jews, but also Germans whose real estate was seized when communist Poland annexed Silesia, as well as Poles whose property was left behind in the Western Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania when these segments of Poland’s pre-1939 territory were annexed by the former USSR....

Somehow I can't see changing that...
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
12 Jun 2011  #3
"The non-Jewish Poles as well as the Silesian Germans, White Russians, Ukrainians and Lithuanians were not subjected to these inhuman conditions, and relatively few found it necessary to leave their native lands."

Huh?Yup,because loads of germans were allowed to stay in Polish silesia were they?
Bzibzioh
12 Jun 2011  #4
Huh?

The word you are looking for is hucpa.

I'm more concerned about this particular detail

"It also runs counter to the Terezin (Czech Republic) declaration adopted in 2000, to which Poland is a signatory. This includes guidelines for the restitution of private and communal assets, including “private property claims of Holocaust victims concerning immovable property of former owners, heirs or successors...” "

Looks like they'll be pushing for those properties without heirs after all ...
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,437
12 Jun 2011  #5
$6.3 billion

I'm guessing this is the more reasonable figure the Jews may get in the future, not 60 billion. I don't know where they got that previous figure even if it's recounted in today's money, i doubt real estate was expensive in pre war Poland.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,683
12 Jun 2011  #6
I don't know where they got that previous figure even if it's recounted in today's money, i doubt real estate was expensive in pre war Poland.

I'm not sure about that....

If I remember correctly the Wertheim heirs demanded and got a reparation about estimated today's worth not that from 60 years back.

jewishreview.org/node/8565
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,437
12 Jun 2011  #7
today's worth not that from 60 years back.

The thing is not every Jew owned property. After Poland regained her independence after WWI the Jews in the east (from Lithuania for instance) were dirt poor.
RobertLee 4 | 73
12 Jun 2011  #8
If you think about it, Poles should also pay compensation to most Germans from Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia, cause after all you can't prove that an individual German family was guilty of any crime.

But who will pay the compensation to Poles expelled from Soviet-annexed territory??? Who will pay for Polish property destroyed during war? Again Poles?
But wait, WHY ARE OWNERSHIP RIGHTS PUT ABOVE EVERYTHING ELSE? Are ownership rights more sacred than let's say - a life? If a family lost a father due to nazi or communist terror then why shouldn't they be compensated? If somebody spend 8 years in communist prison and underwent torture then why shouldn't he be compensated? Is his suffering smaller than the suffering of somebody who lost his factory?

Again, the question remains: who will pay for all this? Ordinary Polish taxpayers who didn't do anything wrong? Doesn't seem like justice.
And why Jews who left Poland 60 years ago and their heirs should be the first to receive compensation from the huge number of people who suffered during nazi or communist rule? I say they are at the very end of the queue.

Besides, Polish government shouldn't pay anything to Israeli citizens until after they pay reasonable compensations to Palestinians, as a matter of principle.
I was also going to write that Poland shouldn't pay anything to USA citizens, until after USA government pays off native American Indians and the state of Mexico, but the fact is that poor, war-devastated Poland has already paid a compensation to the US government, who agreed that it would take care of distributing those funds among its eligible citizens. Funny how the Jerusalem Post quoted one part of Radek Sikorski statement but somehow missed the part where he mentioned that agreement :D

I guess the Jewish tactics is "to be shocked and offended" by Poland's unwillingness to pay, at least once a month for the next few years.
rychlik 41 | 373
12 Jun 2011  #9
Jews are always a problem for Poland. I hope the Polish government stands their ground and does not give in. Polish people are finally rebuilding, renovating their cities, only to have foreign Jews come in and try and steal it away. Does anyone think the EU laws are anti-Polish?

"Polskie ulice, ┼╝ydowskie kamienice."
legend 3 | 664
12 Jun 2011  #10
Them zionists have always been a problem true.

Jews are always a problem for Poland. I hope the Polish government stands their ground and does not give in. Polish people are finally rebuilding, renovating their cities, only to have foreign Jews come in and try and steal it away. Does anyone think the EU laws are anti-Polish?

"Polskie ulice, ┼╝ydowskie kamienice."

Its not just Poland. I mean they have been kicked out of all countries in Europe several times.
youtube.com/watch?v=3PyoXDnUKgM&feature=related

Lol and believe me its not because whites are racist. There were some damn good reasons to kick them out. And this is just Europe. Think of the rest of the world.

EU / Nato / UN / USA laws and interests are pro zionist. They want oil and power over everything.
This bull**** they talk about Iran is another nonsense.
Google "Iran Is Not the Problem". My favorite documentary Ive seen (even better than Defamation 2009 I could argue).

You know its funny recently Obama proposed a plan from pre1967 borders under the condition that Palestine should be demilitarized (the latter part of this deal is ridiculous). Then these zionists started calling Obama anti Israel. What a joke seriously? The fact is which ever US president ever gets elected he will be attacked/pressured by AIPAC, other lobbies and separately from influential people and corporations. So in essence it does not matter if you vote Republican (who support Israel like hell) or Democrat (who still support Israel).

Republicans last election had ~20% of Jews vote for them in the US.
These guys are the rich "elite" Jews. They are the ones who support Israel.
Democrats had 80% of Jews vote in the US.
These people are very split on the issue of Israel (there is a significant amount of Jews who oppose zionist state). However alot of them are brainwashed from early childhood (see Defamation 2009)

to think they everyone is their enemy. The majority also supports zionism.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
12 Jun 2011  #11
A small, nominal 'restitution' will be made in commodities:

kasha

carp
teflcat 5 | 1,032
12 Jun 2011  #12
Lol and believe me its not because whites are racist. There were some damn good reasons to kick them out. And this is just Europe. Think of the rest of the world.

Legend. As a thoroughly modern Nazi what do you suggest would be an appropriate solution to what you see as the problem of Jews?
legend 3 | 664
12 Jun 2011  #13
Your accusation of me being a modern nazi is despicable. So I will make an accusation of you too:
You are pro-zionist. Happy?

The nazis killed 3 million Poles at least. I have nothing to do with them and I do/would hate them.
Being anti-zionist is not anti-Semitic. Unless you are one of the idiots who think so.

There are good Jews and bad Jews just like every country.
And sadly there is only a few of them who publicly speak out against the genocide/apartheid state of Israel.
Noam Chomsky is an example of a good Jew. The guy has brains and lectures plus writes books on these very issues. Good book: "What we say Goes".

I have no problem with average Jew I have with a problem with the zionists.
I also have a problem with those in higher up positions (media, bank, etc) who use these means to brainwash average people in America, Europe, and even worldwide.
pawian 157 | 9,104
12 Jun 2011  #14
Legend. As a thoroughly modern Nazi what do you suggest would be an appropriate solution to what you see as the problem of Jews?

Can`t Jews or their successors start a private litigation in Polish courts to claim particular properties? Let them take their cases to court and prove the ownership. Poles who lost property under communism do it.

I am against general compensation paid to Jewish organizations.
1jola 14 | 1,879
12 Jun 2011  #15
The main problem with this issue is that decent Jewish folk are not vocal to protest this obvious racket that has become an industry for a few super-rich Jews and a bunch of Holocaust horror museums . I know, it's for the survivors; they just never get the actual money. In Israel, many live in poverty.

In Poland, 14% of claims are by Jews. They can get in a court line with the rest of Poles. The 80% or so. The Jewish heirs do go to court and do recover property, so enough about that.

Now, these crooks want money for heirless property as if one Jew's property belongs to all Jews.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
12 Jun 2011  #16
Can`t Jews or their successors start a private litigation in Polish courts to claim particular properties? Let them take their cases to court and prove the ownership. Poles who lost property under communism do it.

Point in fact is that most Jews have no claim to polish properties so what they call restitution is downright extortion.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
12 Jun 2011  #17
Opening Pandora's box will only give rise to spurious claims. Correct me if I'm wrong but WW2 finished 66 years ago. Why the plethora of cases now? Keep the can of worms closed unless a fully workable solution can be found.
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
12 Jun 2011  #18
Legend. As a thoroughly modern Nazi what do you suggest would be an appropriate solution to what you see as the problem of Jews?

Classic :) Madagascar?
David_18 68 | 982
12 Jun 2011  #19
In my opinion the Jews who should have back any money or property should be living in Poland. The rest who choose to make a new life somewhere else can just forget it.
RobertLee 4 | 73
12 Jun 2011  #20
That should be the bottom line. Instead our moronic prime minister Tusk goes to Israel making promises, playing Santa Claus, cause he knows Polish taxpayers are "survivors" as well - that is they survive anything Polish government throws at them.
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,437
12 Jun 2011  #21
teflcat:
Legend. As a thoroughly modern Nazi what do you suggest would be an appropriate solution to what you see as the problem of Jews?

Your accusation of me being a modern nazi is despicable.

Yes I appalled myself ;)
One side of me doesn't want Poland to give in to their demands, who are they to say Poland must pay there's a dozen other nations who took from others and have no intention of paying ever. Jews seam to think they're special. Another side thinks if this will really get them to buzz off, forever (not to come back with yet another demand) then maybe so be it.
rychlik 41 | 373
12 Jun 2011  #22
Can`t Jews or their successors start a private litigation in Polish courts to claim particular properties? Let them take their cases to court and prove the ownership. Poles who lost property under communism do it.

I am against general compensation paid to Jewish organizations.

Agreed. If it's done legally then let them get some money for any "sins" committed in the past. But you can't black mail a country for 65 billion dollars (or whatever the sum is). I wrote before that I try to "like" Jews but it is not easy and the more I read about these issue the more I resent them.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
12 Jun 2011  #23
They will never let it go. I won't be surprised If sooner or later our OFE money and foreign exchange reserves will be looted to "pay it back".
Seanus 15 | 19,706
12 Jun 2011  #24
There is a term 'The Holocaust Industry'. People like those shown on Defamation milk it to the max. The best thing Poland could do we be the following:

Talk about it till the cows come home and then talk some more. Disagree on certain aspects of it and then enter into more talks. Give them a taste of their own medicine. Endless talks is the way to stall indefinitely. Why should Poland be complicit when their land was violated?
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,437
12 Jun 2011  #25
Germany was a different case, most of world opinion shared their view of Jews being victims of Germans. Poland was a victim also country was invaded destroyed, million of ethnic Poles were killed. Poland can't be responsible for what the Nazis did or later communists, enforced by Soviet armor.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
12 Jun 2011  #26
I was trying to make the point that the Polish govt should stall, stall and stall some more. The Israelis talk of peace but bulldoze, beat and make the lives of Palestinians miserable. Now, I know that this shouldn't deflect attention from the merit of individual claims but we all know how things work and such considerations ultimately play their part. The Israeli politicians don't want peace, they want revenge and to torture through their IDF. If they can stall on sth so important, so can Poland.
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,437
12 Jun 2011  #27
Ur right, that was my point also. Why don't they start with paying the Palestinians back.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
12 Jun 2011  #28
They are, in blood :( :( :(

I fear that the current Polish govt will bend over backwards but it will be at their peril. In law, the proximate cause would be the deciding factor and that was Nazi Germany. It has long gone so who should foot the bill now?
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,437
12 Jun 2011  #29
They are, in blood :( :( :(

True the Palestinians were driven out of their land and are treated as 2nd or even 3rd class citizens. Yet it's hard to see Israeli aggression on the news channels.

rt.com/news/syria-israel-border-clashes/
Seanus 15 | 19,706
12 Jun 2011  #30
They have no concept of proportionality which is a standard norm of international law. Poland should reciprocate and give them 1/10th of what they think they are due.


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