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Poland issues most European Arrest Warrants


Monia
18 Jun 2011 #31
pays for the excesses of the Polish court.

As I said he knows nothing, so making comments by him is not valuable for me !

Instead he was locked up for weeks.

Thats a teaching experience for him , maybe in a future he will obey law of another country

seen the warrants in question.

No, you`ve claimed before that he knew the case , now , you are changing your point saying that he has seen just a EAW which is not enough to make a comment on a case .

that Englishman had insurance and could have easily proved it if he was asked to. Instead he was locked up for weeks.

I don`t think it was a case of overlooking of some data included in documents presented . I will not comment on that as I didn`t read the evidences . Please don`t ask me for my comments as I will not give it to you .

Oops, looks like I just caught you lying, again.

And what more will you say about me ? Make up something nice as I am not used to hear anything but nice compliments .

An EAW can be issued for any crime which can be punished by three years in prison

No , it is not true ,it pertains all crimes with punishment of at least 1 year and more .
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Jun 2011 #32
No , it is not true ,it pertains all crimes with punishment of at least 1 year and more .

Do all EU countries proceed equally when pursuing those cases? In other words, will every single case of EAW be pursued in all EU countries equally? Does the cost of deportation play any role in pursuing those cases?
Monia
18 Jun 2011 #33
I dont know about all member state`s criminal legal system , every single state has to issue a Law concerning EAW procedure . I have no idea about other procedures but Polish . According to polish procedure Poland pays the costs of EAW .

Polish Penal Code says :

Art. 614. Wydatki poniesione w związku z czynnościami przewidzianymi w niniejszym dziale pokrywa państwo obce, które złożyło wniosek o dokonanie czynności. Organy państwa polskiego mogą odstąpić od żądania zwrotu poniesionych wydatków, jeżeli państwo obce zapewnia wzajemność.

This is a paragraph about the costs of the procedure . It simply says - the costs of handling the case are covered by the state which forwarded EAW to another country for its execution .

This means Poland pays for executing EAW on the territory of the other state . The costs can be mutually deducted on the base of mutual agreement.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Jun 2011 #34
I dont know

Thanks for your help. I wonder if an EAW will be always pursued despite the costs or they won't pursue it when the costs of it are too high?
Monia
18 Jun 2011 #35
Thanks for your help.

What help...... How would it help to increase your knowledge if you have none on this subject and what do you thank me for ?

If you try to be sarcastic don`t bother asking me .

This thread is about Polish EAW iissued by polish authorities asking British legal authorities for executing them .
Harry
18 Jun 2011 #36
Thats a teaching experience for him , maybe in a future he will obey law of another country

He did obey the law: he had valid insurance and had documentation proving that. Polish police were too stupid to know that and Polish judges were too stupid to ask for documentation.

No, you`ve claimed before that he knew the case , now , you are changing your point saying that he has seen just a EAW which is not enough to make a comment on a case .

I said that he knows more than you because he has seen the EAW in question. I see that you know you've lost this one and so from now on will lie as much as possible.

I don`t think it was a case of overlooking of some data included in documents presented . I will not comment on that as I didn`t read the evidences . Please don`t ask me for my comments as I will not give it to you .

Liar: you have already commented, saying "maybe in a future he will obey law". He did obey it but your 'justice' system is too stupid to know that.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Jun 2011 #37
and what do you thank me for ?

I was thanking you for at least trying to answer my questions, no need to be arrogant again, Monia.
Monia
18 Jun 2011 #38
no need to be arrogant again, Monia.

Says the one who said arrogant personal comments about me . I don`t remember being arrogant to you .

I was not trying........ I have given you all the information wanted by you on the level of a person who doesn`t know anything about Polish legal system . I am not trying to comment on other country`s legal system as contrary to some posters . Read all my posts carefully and your questions are already answered .
Harry
18 Jun 2011 #39
Says the one who said arrogant personal comments about me . I don`t remember being arrogant to you .

No, you're too busy lying to have any time for being arrogant.

So to sum up, the Polish legal system is perfect and the only people who can comment on it are lawyers and judges.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Jun 2011 #40
Says the one who said arrogant personal comments about me .

when did I say it, Monia?

I have given you all the information wanted by you on the level of a person who doesn`t know anything about Polish legal system

as far as the first part of your statement, well thanks again, Monia

Now to the rest of your statement, "on the level of a person who doesn`t know anything about Polish legal system".
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, maybe you just really don't realize how arrogant some of what you're posting here sounds to the recipients.
Monia
18 Jun 2011 #41
when did I say it, Monia?

Well check your comments in one of my threads .

This thread is about something different , so let`s not elaborate on that any longer .

No, you're too busy lying to have any time for being arrogant.

For you, a normal discussion is not enough , you tend to bring personal stuff on each occasion .
guesswho 4 | 1,289
18 Jun 2011 #42
Well check your comments in one of my threads .
This thread is about something different , so let`s not elaborate on that any longer .

well, you stirred it up so come up with some evidence, otherwise it can't be really an issue here, right?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
19 Jun 2011 #43
Poland`s expenditures on justice system go as the second largest in Europe just behind Norway , at the level of 1.78 % of the state budget.

Alas, that's because the system is monolithic and in dire need of reform.

I know several lawyers/prosecutors and even one judge in Poznan - and they're all in agreement that reform is needed. The e-court in Lublin was a small, but important step. But as long as prosecutors don't have any discretion in Poland (and some other countries) - the EAW system will continue to be abused.

The huge rise in arbitration services (heck, I've just signed a contract to do this myself!) in Poland should tell you that people don't trust the legal system to do the right thing.

EAW is not created for civil cases !

The problem is that the line between civil and criminal is more blurred in Europe than in the UK - I could tell you about a lot of dodgy cases in Spain and France where EAW's have been used against British citizens - it's not just Poland.
Harry
20 Jun 2011 #44
This means Poland pays for executing EAW on the territory of the other state .

That is an interesting claim to make.

The cost to Britain of extraditing the large number of Poles is £25 million a year. So many are extradited that flights from Biggin Hill have been increased to once a fortnight.

So are all these journalists wrong? What could the problem be?

Well, strangely enough the problem is that Monia doesn't have a clue what she is talking about. Let's take a look at "2002/584/JHA: Council Framework Decision of 13 June 2002 on the European arrest warrant and the surrender procedures between Member States - Statements made by certain Member States on the adoption of the Framework Decision"

And when we read it, we see that it says:

Article 30
Expenses
1. Expenses incurred in the territory of the executing Member State for the execution of a European arrest warrant shall be borne by that Member State.
2. All other expenses shall be borne by the issuing Member State.

So, who wants legal advice from Monia?
Monia
20 Jun 2011 #45
Read my post nb. 36 and there is a PPC parahraph which concerns the costs , if you can`t understand polish language you can translate it with google translator , don`t cite any english paragraphs as only polish law matters if it comes with law concerning polish citizens , and EAW prepared in Poland and sent to England

Art. 614. Wydatki poniesione w związku z czynnościami przewidzianymi w niniejszym dziale pokrywa państwo obce, które złożyło wniosek o dokonanie czynności. Organy państwa polskiego mogą odstąpić od żądania zwrotu poniesionych wydatków, jeżeli państwo obce zapewnia wzajemność.

Read it and make proper conclusions

Well, strangely enough the problem is that Monia doesn't have a clue what she is talking about. Let's take a look at "2002/584/JHA: Council Framework Decision of 13 June 2002 on the European arrest warrant and the surrender procedures between Member States - Statements made by certain Member States on the adoption of the Framework Decision" We can find it

As you can see this is a framework decision and each member state has to issue its own procedure of EAW . So I have told in my previous posts that in Poland procedure of EAW is included in division XIII of Polish Penal Code .

If Law in England says something different I am sorry it is up to England to adopt the framework of European Council in own specific way . If you want to find out the facts about how Law is adopted in each member state you will know that it can`t be adopted straight as it sounds in a framework decision without a lenghty legal procedure in Parlament which is a legal body to constitute Law in each member state . So your assumption that such Law has been issued is wrong because you don`t know about all the facts concerning this constituting law procedure . Even though England adopted such decision in a way different to Poland , costs are beared by the state issuing EAW or are mutually beared by each state for the procedure done on its territory on a rule of mutuality , it is exactly what is written in art. 614 of PPC

Here is an article in Polish press in which such problem is discussed :

Many courts in the UK considers it necessary to bestow trust of Poles living in their territory and paying taxes there, and prosecuted by the Polish courts on the basis of an EAW. They decide not to apply to them for the duration of pre-trial detention examine the application for execution of the EAW. British justice begins more and more talk about the costs that must be borne in relation to the execution of Polish orders, even with a distorted idea of ​​the EAW by Poland, which pursues inter alia, persistent niealimentację, petty theft or fraud. The instrument, which was designed to combat serious crime, has become a network here on petty criminals fleeing from Polish.

They criticize us for being too often use this institution?

The British press and the police complain that it seems a fortune on the translation of documents, attorneys from the office (every person of Polish gets a public defender), often committed to work entire sections of Scotland Yard.

It says exactly that british courts don`t understand the European Legal System and don`t make subsumption of legal institutions in a way the other european states do . It makes a clash between their law and the legal institutions in the rest of Europe .

That makes sense and your misunderstanding of a whole subject lies in this problem , because you assumed that British way is the wright way , which is contested by other states .

Don`t make me responsible for everything and especially for your faults .

I am not intending to give here a lecture about Law ( I really don`t have so much time to do it ) I just wanted to contribute to a thread by explaining some facts and straightening some distorted views presented by some posters .

In real life and in my practise I deal with real people who are satisfied by my legal service given to them . You know nothing about my experience so don`t give here derogatory comments about me .

It is always you who deny and critisize things , some posters try to discuss and it is a pleasure for me to take part in such discussions . With you , the way you conduct a discussion always upsets me .

If you changed your attitude more people would be nicer to you .
Harry
21 Jun 2011 #46
As you can see this is a framework decision and each member state has to issue its own procedure of EAW . So I have told in my previous posts that in Poland procedure of EAW is included in division XIII of Polish Penal Code .

So the European Framework Decision says one thing and Polish law says another. That was clever of the Polish legislator. I wonder which one prevails: is the the EU rules or Polish law?

If Law in England says something different I am sorry it is up to England to adopt the framework of European Council in own specific way .

It seems that Britain has indeed adopted the framework decision correctly, and now Britain has to pay for the ineptitude of Poland's justice system.

Here is an article in Polish press in which such problem is discussed :

Could you be so kind as to point out the part of that text which says that under EU rules Britain does not have to pay for the incompetency of the Polish justice system?

That makes sense and your misunderstanding of a whole subject lies in this problem , because you assumed that British way is the wright way , which is contested by other states .

But it is not the British way: it is the way that is required by EU rules, no matter how much you claim to say that Poland's rules take priority.

don`t cite any english paragraphs as only polish law matters if it comes with law concerning polish citizens

Is that why the Polish constitution was changed in 2006?
TheJudge - | 1
21 Dec 2011 #47
EUROPEJSKINAKAZARESZTOWANIA.COM

EUROPEANARRESTWARRANT.COM

MANDATEUROPEANDEARESTARE.COM

For all info on the european arrest warrant.


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