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Witamy, Guest
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Goodbye Sunday Shopping in Poland - Hello Electoral Reform


Chemikiem 5 | 1,109    
12 Mar 2018  #91

There is genuine support for this

I don't doubt it, but what about all those people who don't work in retail? Bus drivers, hospital workers etc, they aren't going to get Sunday off!

retailers are looking at ways to get around it.

Oh I'm sure they are. For those businesses that contravene the law though, there is up to 100,000 PLN fines, and prison sentences for repeat offenders!

Dougpol1 25 | 1,776    
12 Mar 2018  #92

I did see lots of people walking, cycling and jogging.

And I saw lots of people agitating in long queues at 7.30 on Saturday morning and the supermarket staff wringing their hands in exasperation.. PIS have seen how the Germans and Austrians live and think they can emulate them:))

Clueless fools. The Polish government - not the Germans......
Sparks11 - | 327    
12 Mar 2018  #93

now the sunday inspectors are striking. I think this kind of thing is where polish jokes come from
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,076    
12 Mar 2018  #94

@Dougpol1

Poland told the imf to stuff it. Poor country? It has consistently ranks as 23rd largest world economy Poland has a larger economy than greece austria denmark sweden belgium czechy hungary etc and is very close to holland. And no the economy is driven by services, of which retail is a part of, just like all upper income developed countries. And poland isnt emulating germany at all infact theyre consistently doimg the opposite namely having healthy growth and not spending more on migramts than education.

Id much sooner call a country that welcomed invading parasites that literally rape amd pillage a dumb foolish country. Poland certainly has problems but atleast it isnt cucked. Theres no polish cops telling people not to wave polish flags because it may provoke migrants.

If the majority of poles dont like it im sure itll change. In wroclaw one mall is open because its like outdoors or some loophole that allows it to remain open
jon357 69 | 13,491    
12 Mar 2018  #95

Oh I'm sure they are.

One way round that's been suggested is to buy online, possibly using Argos-type terminals and the store being legally a collection point!

now the sunday inspectors are striking.

Are they demanding Sundays off? :-)
Dougpol1 25 | 1,776    
12 Mar 2018  #96

Poland has a larger economy than greece austria denmark sweden belgium etc

Lol Dirk. You at it again? Not in the mood for your boorish Poland love today mate.
Ever heard of GDP? Ever heard of standard of living index? Poland is a poor country. Not to be compared with any of the above, bar one. Even then, one might argue that Greek shipping puts most of Polands' trade in the shade. Get over it. Otherwise, why aren't you back here?
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,076    
13 Mar 2018  #97

Have you heard of purchasing power parity aka ppp per capita? Its over $30k avg in poland, higher than greece hungary and roughly equal to czechy and a lil lower than austria and purchasing power is what matters for you. Even frances is a only a tad over 40k usd ppp. Hahaha greece? Greeces entire economy is worth polands exports alone. Sorry doug economics and business isnt ur thing. Poland only seems poor because of your mindset. Theres as maby porsches bmws mercrdes in wroclaw per capita as any major western city.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,076    
13 Mar 2018  #98

Oh and poland is categorically rated as 'very high' for human development, a developed nation, and is considered a high income country. Afganistan is poor russia is poor poland is not. But of course you know better than the world bank econonomists phds and credit rating agencies...

Yup poland is poor
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Bank_high-income_economy

And theres no such economic or financial index as the 'standard of living index' lololol.

I just think you dont like the fact that theres so many successful people in Poland and the country is doing so well
OP Atch 14 | 2,265    
13 Mar 2018  #99

Have you heard of purchasing power parity aka ppp per capita?

I took a look at a ranking of EU countries based on GDP adjusted for purchasing power parity and Poland comes out as one of the poorest countries in the EU on that basis. The ranking is based on 2016 figures. When you factor in the number of people in Poland who don't live in affluent cities, who earn low wages or none at all, the sick, the disabled, the elderly, those in debt etc many people are struggling.

poland is categorically rated as 'very high' for human development, a developed nation, and is considered a high income country.

I suggest you take some time to read this:

szp.azureedge.net/Web/upload/raport2017/raport_o_biedzie_2017_v2.pdf

Maybe coming from America where there is extreme poverty alongside extreme wealth, you wouldn't find the facts contained in the report shocking but I do. The European tradition is to provide generous social benefits for the elderly and the ill, not to expect a pensioner to pay nearly half their meagre pension for medication each month. Not to mention the slum living conditions of many, families crowded into one room, people without a bathroom etc. The only country in the EU with more overcrowded living conditions is Romania. Poland is number two on the index.

And remember that most of the Mercs and Porsches haven't been paid for, just like the apartments their drivers live in. All they really represent is debt. If you're still paying for something it's a debt, not an asset.
kaprys 1 | 1,411    
13 Mar 2018  #100

I survived last Sunday. I'm going to miss Sunday shopping but I'll have to get used to it. As for more time with the family, if you want to spend time together, you do regardless of Sunday shopping.

In reality lots of people had to go to work anyway.
dolnoslask 4 | 1,806    
13 Mar 2018  #101

if you want to spend time together, you do regardless of Sunday shopping.

Not unless you are the poor soul who has to work in the supermarket on a junk wage and forced to work sundays just to keep their job.
cms neuf - | 230    
13 Mar 2018  #102

They don't get junk wages - in fact supermarket cashier's wages are quite high even when compared with junior doctors, teachers, local officials et cetera - Something which is attracting a lot of comments in the press recently. In big towns they get about 3000 sometimes up to 4000.

They are also not forced to work every Sunday, people who have serious religious reservations are normally given exemptions - in fact since Sunday is a higher sales day and commissions are higher they often volunteer for those shifts.

This is not about workers rights, it's about the church. Personally I can survive without Sunday trading, but to me it's a matter of freedom - people should be able to open the shop whenever they feel like it and go shopping whenever they feel like it.
kaprys 1 | 1,411    
13 Mar 2018  #103

Restaurants, cinemas, petrol stations etc are still open on Sundays. I doubt people hired there get higher wages. Hospitals, the police, bus drivers etc still have to work, too. They also have families.

I'm not sure it's about the Church either.
And as I said, people either choose to spend quality time with their families or not.
WielkiPolak 57 | 1,030    
13 Mar 2018  #104

I think kaprys makes a good point. It seems it's only the workers in big chain supermarkets and similar stores that will have Sundays off, but plenty of people will still be working in the industries she mentioned, and many of them too have families.

I suppose, aside from allowing some workers to have the day off, the thought process is also that if most stores are closed, people won't spend their Sunday shopping, but will perhaps go to church with their family and then do something together with them, either at home or in the park or wherever.

Despite that, I have mixed feelings about this law. I see the plus side, but also don't think it was thought out properly. I am usually against laws that dictate to people what they can and can't do or how they should be spending their time.
Sparks11 - | 327    
13 Mar 2018  #105

a report from wyborcza says church attendance declined last sunday. more people in parks and outdoors (the weather was good) snd the shops that were open were doing a booming business
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,076    
13 Mar 2018  #106

Doesnt change the fact that by world standards poland is ranked by the world bank as an upper income country. But surely you know better than the world bank

Polans cities are wealthy but no not countrydide side as anywherr the rural areas are poorer. In pl that difference is more stark thus driving down avg wage
OP Atch 14 | 2,265    
13 Mar 2018  #107

But surely you know better than the world bank

The World Bank was very happy to lend its assistance to Poland in 2016 as one of the first countries chosen to participate in the 'Lagging Regions' initiative. Yes Poland is a great success story economically, but only up to a point.It has challenges to face which have to be addressed, unless you want it to end up like America which has a shockingly high poverty rate for a developed country. That's why Poland, even under PIS, who really would prefer to give everybody the finger, wants to continue to participate in programs designed and funded by the EU and the World Bank.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,076    
13 Mar 2018  #108

Of course, because it's extra capital for Poland. Why wouldn't we negotiate to get billions of dollars?

There's countries far poorer than Poland in terms of nominal gdp, ppp, etc yet they chose to give the money to Poland. Why? Because our country uses the money far wiser than say Greece, Portugal, etc. and gives investors the type of ROI with minimal risk that they seek. Also, they gave them additional money because they saw Poland was paying it back. It's the same basic principle of banking if you borrow someone $1mln and they repay it on time, you're going to actually encourage them to borrow the same amount or more. They could've gone to far poorer countries and gave them money for 'development' yet they chose Poland because they knew they'd make a good ROI with far less risk than other nations. The problem is while this bought an influx of FDI and raised living standards, it has put key industries in foreign, and hence potentially subversive, hands.

Also the 'loan' that world bank gave Poland wasn't even a full 1 bil usd. Furthermore, it was to spur FURTHER growth

"The challenge for Poland is to sustain such impressive growth." said Theo Thomas, Lead Economist and the Task Team Leader for the operation. "The reforms supported by these loans will help ensure that the economy remains competitive and flexible in the face of potential economic shocks. This will support the recovery in investment and employment to ensure that Poland's prosperity continues to be widely shared."

worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2015/07/23/economic-growth-and-resilience-in-poland

.It has challenges to face which have to be addressed

Yes, like asserting our sovereignty and independence towards the EU, gaining more populist allies, letting Italy join V4, refusing entry to all illegal migrants, people who don't have a visa, keeping our society socially conservative and Christian, etc., and buying up more shares in strategic industries like media and banking. Also, Israel needs to be taught that they don't have a monopoly on the Holocaust. Perhaps that could be a new twitter hashtag? #IsraeliHolocaustMonopoly
Dougpol1 25 | 1,776    
13 Mar 2018  #109

our sovereignty and independence

Again, it's not "Our" Dirk. It has nothing to do with you, You don't live here. Sick of repeating the fact.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,076    
13 Mar 2018  #110

It has nothing to do with you,

Actually, as a Polish citizen, taxpayer, property owner, business owner, and ethnic Pole it absolutely does. If Polish citizens don't want migrants from ME/Africa - that is OUR right - as in the right of Polish citizens and voters and the people they decide to represent them - in this case PiS who has by far the largest support of any part. 3/4 of Poles reject migration from ME/AFRICA according to CBOS. Poles also firmly reject changing the institute of marriage to include non hetero couples. Hence, why our country isn't cucked and isn't facing the sort of cultural enrichment via suicide bombings, stabbings, beheadings, truck attacks, etc.

Sick of repeating the fact.

Same. By the constitution, Polish citizens have greater rights than residents and other individuals. If you don't like it get your citizenship and stop whining.
dolnoslask 4 | 1,806    
13 Mar 2018  #111

Actually, as a Polish citizen, taxpayer, property owner, business owner, and ethnic Pole it absolutely does.

I was just about to say that, I still have a huge financial investment in Britanistan and if I want to say I don't like Brexit no one has the right to tell me I cant have an opinion because I spend time in Poland, someone has to pay UK taxes to support Dougs UK pension payout.
Dougpol1 25 | 1,776    
13 Mar 2018  #112

get your citizenship

I don't want your citizenship thanks Dirk:) A waste of time and effort, with sweet FA in return. As I said, back in the day it would have meant relinquishing British citizenship but you obviously prefer to gloss over that pertinent fact.

Meanwhile...... it is WE who have to put up with the inconvenience of shops being closed on a Sunday to feed some medieval idiots' egos. Not YOU.

I think that is the first and only time I have shouted on this forum:)
WielkiPolak 57 | 1,030    
13 Mar 2018  #113

Doug, I still don't understand, why do you live in Poland? Have you committed some crimes in your home country and this was the only way for you to stay out of prison?
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,076    
13 Mar 2018  #114

Than why are you in Poland? You constantly criticize the people, the country, our society and values yet you continue living there. Could it be because you prefer Polish society over Britains? I don't see any other reason why a person would willingly move to a poorer country. It's Poles who go to UK for opportunities - not the other way around.

As I said, back in the day it would have meant relinquishing British citizenship but you obviously prefer to gloss over that pertinent fact.

No, I simply don't care what your excuses are for not getting Polish citizenship. Till you get your Polish citizenship, by law and by the constitution you have less say in Poland's matters than a Polish citizen.
Dougpol1 25 | 1,776    
13 Mar 2018  #115

I still don't understand

Do you know how unoriginal that comment is WP? I'm sure you do. Why do 800,000 Poles live in Britain? How does Arka Gdynia win 3-1 away on the final day of the season at their "friends" stadium and there is no suspicion of match fixing? Why do people keep buying Beyonce records?

All these things are a mystery, and will doubtless remain so, but what is done is done. Don't try to understand, and I will forgive you your silly posturing of a mythical "Greater Poland" in seemingly everything you say and do.

our society

Your society is in America. You are a misguided chap, that's plain enough. I've tried to help, but if you are too far gone to see the truth, or you seem to miss Poland so much........ (although by your own admission you were 8 when you left...)
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,076    
13 Mar 2018  #116

"Greater Poland"

Well, Poland's standing waaaay better than most EU nations. They're experiencing a boom while others are at best stagnant or have minimal growth. Plus we don't have to with terrorism and thousands of rapes by invaders or spending $20 bil a year to house and feed economic migrants. In fact, Poland's getting stronger every day. Even a ton of analysts and economists said a Polexit would impact the EU more profoundly than Brexit due to the political and social ramifications.

Why do 800,000 Poles live in Britain?

Poles come to UK - not the other way around. They come for the jobs and opportunities. What's your reason for living in Poland despite constantly criticizing my fellow countrymen and our society and culture?

Your society is in America.

Indeed it is. It is where I grew up. Doesn't change the fact that I am by birth, blood, and citizenship Polish.

you are too far gone to see the truth

And what truth exactly is that? Maybe you can share some economic knowledge with me like the existence of your so called 'standard of living index' and show me that the World Bank is incorrect to label Poland an 'upper income country'
delphiandomine 86 | 16,477    
13 Mar 2018  #117

They're experiencing a boom while others are at best stagnant or have minimal growth.

Which ones? The Dutch have recorded a higher increase in real terms, despite having less than half the population of Poland. The Eurozone as a whole grew 2.3%, and the total GDP of the Eurozone is a hell of a lot higher than Poland's.

Poland is on par with other countries, nothing more. Germany grew 2.2% - or in real terms, $207,374 billion. Poland had 4.6% growth, but in real terms, only $56,724 billion. Poland has around 46.3% of the population of Germany, yet recorded only 27.4% of the GDP increase that Germany had.

So, in real terms, the Polish government has actually failed in comparison to Germany, and we are falling behind Germany, not catching up with them.

I mean, of course, Poland is doing better than some countries - but it's not a roaring success.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,076    
13 Mar 2018  #118

Which ones?

Poland has a higher GDP growth rate than just about every single EU nation. GDP is relative to a nation. China has a far higher GDP than Germany yet most would say Germans live better than Chinese.

Germany grew 2.2%

That doesn't even cover the standard 3, 3.5% inflation so if they're growing only 2.2%, their economy is actually contracting.
Tacitus 1 | 377    
13 Mar 2018  #119

Inflation in Germany was in 2017 under 2%, indeed Poland had a higher inflation in the same time period.

inflation.eu/inflation-rates/germany/historic-inflation/cpi-inflation-germany-2017.aspx

tradingeconomics.com/poland/inflation-cpi

Besides, the fact that you continue to compare Poland's economic growth with that of Western Europe betrays your bias. Poland's economy is still developing compared to the saturated economies in Western Europe, and thus can achieve higher growth rate; in fact as delphie has pointed out, the distance might not even get closer because total growth might still be higher in the west. The important is now how Poland will be able to make sure that all citizens benefit from its' economic growth.

Regarding the topic of this thread, I can understand why many people are annoyed about these changes, but I can also understand why they are implemented. I have recently read a study that longer shopping times do not necessarily lead to an increase in total spending (because people usually know what they are going to buy, and how much they need), instead people are simply spending the same over a longer amount of time. While large companies can afford to pay their employees for the additional working times, smaller shops might find this difficult, since their profits do not necessarily increase. So this practice puts a lot of pressure on smaller shops.

It seems to me that we need to find a compromise regarding the shopping time, and to be honest I think that a ban on Sunday shopping could serve as a compromise. As long as you can shop 6 days a week, you ought to be able to get your shopping done in the allocated time.
Dougpol1 25 | 1,776    
13 Mar 2018  #120

instead people are simply spending the same over a longer amount of time.

Er..don't you mean over a shorter period of time?
I am firmly on the side of those who argue that retail sales are going to be hurt by this. It reminds me of Sundays in Britain in the early 80s - defeatist, grey and boring. We learnt our lesson - which is, let the free market decide.




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