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Witamy, Guest
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Goodbye Sunday Shopping in Poland - Hello Electoral Reform


idem - | 138    
1 Dec 2017  #61

Now I'm not saying that the other lot, that is PO, are much better than PIS.

I am surprised you wrote it....Ok, Kaczynski is deluded little man who is power hungry....PIS is overly orientated towards Catholic church but!!!! There is one thing which PO did which is unforgivable- running like little nasty backstabber to Brussel and report against your own country, government? Which other country does things like this?

I live in UK and people like Farage or Corbyn or Theresa May -they come from different political parties. They can be nasty to each other in parliament, press conferences but outside UK they always stick for their own country.. So sorry but PO or KOD....they are just nasty, selfish traitors for me ( and I guess more people in Poland).

gumishu 11 | 4,845    
1 Dec 2017  #62

No impartiality whatsoever now.

I suspected so - masks falling off

So sorry but PO or KOD....they are just nasty, selfish traitors for me ( and I guess more people in Poland).

a quote from Kaczyński you probably heard misinterpreted: - W Polsce jest taka fatalna tradycja zdrady narodowej. (...) To jest jakby w genach niektórych ludzi, tego najgorszego sortu Polaków - In Poland there is this nasty tradition of national treason (...) It is as if it was in some people's genes, the genes of this worst kind of Poles
gumishu 11 | 4,845    
1 Dec 2017  #63

a quote from Kaczyński you probably heard misinterpreted:

the quote is from December 2015 - pretty prophetic if you ask me
idem - | 138    
1 Dec 2017  #64

a quote from Kaczyński you probably heard misinterpreted: - W Polsce jest taka fatalna tradycja zdrady narodowej. (...)- In Poland there is this nasty tradition of national treason (...)

And I don't understand it? Once we can be brave, patriotic, fighting for your country and then.....people like this. It is like chicken fall out with his chicken mates and runs to fox for help. Idiocy- but apparently they are well educated and progressive and PIS is uneducated and backward.
gumishu 11 | 4,845    
1 Dec 2017  #65

but apparently they are well educated and progressive and PIS is uneducated and backward

choose this day who you support those who claim to be educated and progressive or those who don't care for titles but who care for the people

btw you seriously believe people like Kijowski, Petru, Schetyna, Gronkiewicz-Waltz would fight for the country in need?
gumishu 11 | 4,845    
1 Dec 2017  #66

@gumishu

So sorry but PO or KOD....they are just nasty, selfish traitors for me ( and I guess more people in Poland).

you are actually one of very few lemmings who woke up - many still wish Poland ill only so that they could see PiS out of power - hatred for PiS has been programmed into them by years of media brainwashing
idem - | 138    
1 Dec 2017  #67

of

Because I don't live in Poland I Iook at it from more objective perspective. Ha,ha and I don't have polish tv so no media brainwashing.... I don't always agree with things that some of PIS people say and let's be honest they don't have the best diplomatic skills but in the bigger scale they try to be loyal to their country and people.
gumishu 11 | 4,845    
1 Dec 2017  #68

let's be honest they don't have the best diplomatic skills but in the bigger scale they try to be loyal to their country and people.

yes, it's true they are not best of diplomats probably - but I am very glad you managed to notice they care for the country and the people - I understand you don't share their moral stances based on religion but I mostly do even though I am not christian - and even though I am a iron electorate of PiS I don't hold Kaczyński to be perfect, flawless, and infallible or even a great strategist as many PiS voters do -

I don't agree with some of their legislative proposals either (like ban on Sunday trade, ban on ritual slaughter or ban on fur animals farms to name a few) - what I believe though we don't have anything realisticly better at the moment -

I ultimately am for more of a direct form of democracy like in Switzerland including electing judges - the judiciary system in Poland designed in 1989 and 1997 is judges appointing new judges and judges controlling judges (through the KRS) - this, the special caste like attitude of the judiciary and their specific political leanings but also their involvement in cliques especially early on after communism ( i can give you some examples but I will spare you for now it is a long post anyway) have caused a lot of anomalies including corruption on all levels, inefficiency, incompetency, inconsistency (which should not be a case in codex law you would think) that haven't been addressed throughout the years (like hardly any corrupted or biased judge facing any serious consequences) - this (the judiciary being an authority unto themselves) has to end - and some control of the judges by officials elected by the public (i.e. representatives of the public) is a step in the right direction - but as I say I am ultimately for electing judges directly by the public for terms in office possibly on all levels of the judiciary (like it is in many states of the US) and the power for people to depose a judge they don't think s/he suits them anymore
idem - | 138    
1 Dec 2017  #69


I think that our opinions are influenced by our upbringing but also by our education, environment so they can change with time.I don't think that many people are 100% conservative or liberal it is usually mixture.

I am weird cross between conservative and green :-)

I agree with you on judges stance.

Yes- all this ban on Sunday trade is very bad decision and will affect our economy- especially in the big touristic towns ( like Krakow I come from)

Propose on ban on ritual slaughter and fur animal farm I am 100 for it !!!. I am against cruelty towards animals.

But all this unpleasant attitude of PIS towards In vitro- ??? What is wrong with it? It is the best way to get pregnant for woman who can't get in natural way.

Again - all these black marches for abortion....I am for abortion if pregnancy was a result of rape of there is risk that mother dies or child will be highly disabled.....but in UK there are some reckless women who just sleep around without contraception and they treat abortion as contraception- I find it just disgusting.So I think lots of these issues depends on context.

But I suppose what is positive about PIS they try to be 'socialist' and improve life of 'average Kowalski'. Unfortunately some of these changes will probably backfire- like reducing retirement age.....People live longer now....there is no enough money in the ZUS pot so I am afraid it will go up soon.
SigSauer 2 | 490    
1 Dec 2017  #70

While I'm a neophyte to Polish politics, I can say that they are on the right track when western media is doing hit pieces on them. For anyone with a modicum of nuance and critical thinking skills, the hit piece that CNN did on Poland's "60,000 white supremacists" marching through Warsaw, for their freaking independence day parade; that was a turning point for me and I finally understood this idea of "fake news." I mean, it was an outright journalistic fabrication. The west wants to punish them, and Hungary, for not wanting to destroy their national identity and have thousands of citizens raped. It's unreal, but as I said this is all I need to know about PiS to know they're charting the right course for their country, and that they truly care about their citizens. We had a man acquitted of murder in the US today, who was in possession of weapon illegally (prohibited person; felon in possession), and had been deported FIVE times from the United States, but one of the sanctuary cities in California would not allow ICE to deport him for the 6th time after his 9 millionth arrest. The argument isn't that cars don't kill more people per year than illegal immigrants, the argument is that we can't get rid of cars or curtail their use, but we absolutely can protect our fellow country men and women and keep dangerous individuals out through proper vetting, or not have them at all.
idem - | 138    
1 Dec 2017  #71

@SigSauer

I think that there are few aspects in it:

- one is that ' over the top dramatic news' sell well so most papers had to exaggerate on news.
- political correctness brainwashed people and killed logical thinking

but

lets be honest. There was small group of people with racist/nasty signs...there was no need for it. Without them it would be just pleasant, patriotic march. With them everything was twisted by 'liberals'.

I thought that I read somewhere that we were to sue this idiot from Brussel who said about '60 000 Nazis marching'- and I think we should as it was just twisted news.
cms 9 | 1,301    
2 Dec 2017  #72

Sig - Next year when you are here you can walk there with your Polish family and see how safe it feels. For about10 years it has not been a pleasant march but an excuse to take cheap amphetamines and smash things up. It's not particularly racist apart from a few nuts but it is often very threatening. That's why many families now leave Warsaw for the duration.
WielkiPolak 57 | 1,030    
2 Dec 2017  #73

1/ The march has only been going for about 10 years, so you're basically saying that it's always been a threatening event and an excuse to do drugs.

2/ If so many people are really so afraid of this march that they leave Warsaw, why were there so many families with young children taking part in this year's march? I didn't hear a single complaint from any of them about feeling unsafe.
Ironside 46 | 8,800    
2 Dec 2017  #74

how safe it feels.

you as a foreigner and a leftie would of course feel unsafe - for no reason to be sure.

There was small group of people with racist/nasty signs...

Let be honest, there is always few idiots or provocateurs. However in reality it is nothing, just a convenient pretext to besmirch the march by the progressives. Polish people should stop worry about what some commies say or what they lie about it. Do your thing and let them whine and spit their venom.

Gov and this soft leftie leaning president shouldn't have responded to this propaganda of leftie scum across the world.
idem - | 138    
2 Dec 2017  #75

@Ironside

Yes and No- it was small group and they could be racist idiots or they could be provocateurs but I don't think that we want to be seen abroad as Nazi-racist country. The problem is that papers and liberal 'progressives' look for sensation and blow it our of proportion.

Propaganda is spread by lefties but unfortunately average person who knows very little about Poland would believe in it and it is wrong.
Ironside 46 | 8,800    
2 Dec 2017  #76

The problem is that papers and liberal 'progressives' look for sensation and blow it our of proportion.

No the problem is they lie on purpose to serve their own agenda. Poland either can fall into their commie line or do her own thing.
cms 9 | 1,301    
2 Dec 2017  #77

There are only a few children at this daft march. Given that most Babcias won't let their grandkids out without 10 layers of clothing they are hardly going to be keen to expose them to thousands of unruly and drunk football hooligans. Only a few thousand are hardcore racist but probably 20000 are football ultras. The families there are a mix of mohair and odd looking adults.
idem - | 138    
2 Dec 2017  #78

@cms@

I guess you would prefer these marches :-)

katowice.wyborcza.pl/katowice/5,35063,20003738.html?i=0

dzienniklodzki.pl/tag/pochody-1-maja

ro.com.pl/od-65-lat-w-polsce-obchodzimy-swieto-pracy/01205068
delphiandomine 86 | 16,477    
3 Dec 2017  #79

The families there are a mix of mohair and odd looking adults.

It was already shown that the "families" were actually pictures taken from completely different marches.
WielkiPolak 57 | 1,030    
3 Dec 2017  #80

But you agree there were families at the march?
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,076    
3 Dec 2017  #81

of course there wree a ton of families and even old people

doesn't mtter anywy. our government is PROUD and most Poles (which again, PIS + kukiz support = majority of Poles) are proud to have such patriots - we don't care what others outside of Poland think. it was beautiful display of tens of thousands of people standing up for Polish independence and Christian European civilization
idem - | 138    
3 Dec 2017  #82

I saw people in the wheelchairs....so clearly it was not so dangerous as some of our British expats see it.....Maybe we just express ourselves in different way:-)
jon357 69 | 13,491    
3 Dec 2017  #83

There was small group of people with racist/nasty signs

The organisers.
Ironside 46 | 8,800    
3 Dec 2017  #84

was already shown that the "families" were actually pictures taken from completely different marches.

Why do you lie about it!
You lefties are such liars that no one will believe you if you would just for a change tell the truth.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,076    
4 Dec 2017  #85

Yes, patriots like NOP, RN who are protecting the country from a turd world migrant invasion. Poles reject migration - that's why PiS is in large and in charge.

Other right wingers from EU came to support us now that their countries have been invaded by Muslims, feminazis, commies and their apologist democraps.

Its an independence day march. get over it. if you don't like it don't attend. Patriotic Poles of all ages do so we will.
Chemikiem 5 | 1,109    
12 Mar 2018  #86

And the ban has now come into effect......currently 2 Sundays per month rising to 3 next year, and all Sunday shopping banned by 2020:

theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/11/poland-sunday-trading-ban-takes-effect
Dougpol1 25 | 1,776    
12 Mar 2018  #87

And the ban has now come into effect......currently 2 Sundays per month

Taken a straw poll of people here. They seem to approve :( :(
Bonkers for a poor country where the economy is part driven by retail. Not that a lot of people care about their children having to sort out the foreseeable economic mess further down the road. Poland can always apply to the IMF.......................
Chemikiem 5 | 1,109    
12 Mar 2018  #88

Bonkers for a poor country where the economy is part driven by retail.

I agree with you, but I suppose it's a case of wait and see how it goes. Maybe the decision will be overturned as in the case of Hungary when it proved to be unpopular. Other European countries also have a ban on Sunday trading, but those countries are wealthier than Poland.
cms neuf - | 230    
12 Mar 2018  #89

There is genuine support for this - about 45 percent, and it was in PiS election manifesto, so fair enough. Yesterday was sunny so I did see lots of people walking, cycling and jogging.

Problem is that the 45 percent includes many pensioners and unemployed who don't pay tax and have the rest of the week to go shopping anyway.
jon357 69 | 13,491    
12 Mar 2018  #90

Taken a straw poll of people here

In Warsaw it's unpopular and retailers are looking at ways to get around it.




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