The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 197

WHY IS POLAND STILL GIVEN THE COLD SHOULDER?


grubas 12 | 1,384
24 Oct 2010 #91
Just imagine...a washing machine that lasts 20 years but costs $1,500...would you pay it? Probably not..because you have the false economy lie that ingrained...

What is so unusuall about $1500 washing machine?My mother in Poland 4 years ago spent almost $2000 on Bosch IQ series washing machine.I think it was way too much but she says she likes nice things.On the other hand her Italian made Candy bought in late 70s lasted 23 years (with 2 repairs during that time) believe it or not.

Did you read that Belarus and Serbia also avoided slowdown?

No.It somehow escaped my attention.And as far as I know they don't have a stock exchange in Belarus.Maybe that's why I missed it.

Economically and militarily it holds way more sway than Poland, just a fact.

Hard to argue about it,but a SUPERpower?No.

Second most powerful country on the continent.

No match to Brazil.
convex 20 | 3,930
24 Oct 2010 #92
No.It somehow escaped my attention.And as far as I know they don't have a stock exchange in Belarus.Maybe that's why I missed it.

Could, be, your failure either way. The economy is only a quarter of the size of Poland, but with higher growth, and plenty of opportunities to make money.

Hard to argue about it,but a SUPERpower?No.

It's definately a power. Fourth largest economy in the world as well as being comfortably in the top 10 militaries of the world...

No match to Brazil.

Fair enough, but the step from 1-2 is as big as the step from 2-3.

We know that Poland is a midget on the world stage economically and militarily and will never get the respect it believes it deserves. So what next? Integrate further into Europe? Try to strike out on its own?
grubas 12 | 1,384
24 Oct 2010 #93
Fair enough, but the step from 1-2 is as big as the step from 2-3.

I dare to disagree.The gap between Brazil and Argentina is way bigger than between Argentina and Venezuela,Columbia or even Peru.

It's definately a power. Fourth largest economy in the world as well as being comfortably in the top 10 militaries of the world...

I am not trying to argue that Germany is not an economic power but overall it is still world's second league.You can't compare Germany to US,Russia,China and India which belong to world's heavy weight division.Can you?
convex 20 | 3,930
24 Oct 2010 #94
I dare to disagree.The gap between Argentina and Brazil is way bigger than between Argentina and Venezuela,Columbia or even Peru.

Yes, the 90's were rough. Very rough.

You can't compare Germany to US,Russia,China and India which belong to world's heavy weight division.Can you?

I'd put Germany right there with India. If Germany had the bomb, they'd be equal with those nations (not taking into account that they have access to the bomb...). Not having a seat on the Security Council is the only international forum in which they don't hold as much influence as Russia and China.

Regardless, where does this put Poland? A GDP an 1/8th of the size of Germany, and 1/5th the amount of military expenditures.

Is Poland a country to take seriously on the European stage?
grubas 12 | 1,384
24 Oct 2010 #95
I'd put Germany right there with India. If Germany had the bomb, they'd be equal with those nations (not taking into account that they have access to the bomb...). Not having a seat on the Security Council is the only international forum in which they don't hold as much influence as Russia and China.

I wouldn't.Not even with Pakistan.I am sure you know that just having a bomb doesn't mean much.you also need capability to deliver it wherever you need or want to.

Is Poland a country to take seriously on the European stage?

Now you must be kidding.Worst case scenario Poland is in the second league on European stage.A midget?Then what about Greece,Latvia,Estonia.....?
convex 20 | 3,930
24 Oct 2010 #96
I wouldn't.Not even with Pakistan.I am sure you know that just having a bomb doesn't mean much.you also need capability to deliver it wherever you need or want to.

With regards to their military, Germany is only behind the UK and France in capability. Economically, it's still the second largest exporter in the world.

Now you must be kidding.Worst case scenario Poland is in the second league on European stage.A midget?Then what about Greece,Latvia,Estonia.....?

What's an Estonia?

In all reality, Poland has a large population going for it, that's it. Economically and militarily, it's in Belgium, Austria, Sweden territory.
grubas 12 | 1,384
24 Oct 2010 #97
We know that Poland is a midget on the world stage economically and militarily and will never get the respect it believes it deserves

Really?I didn't know that.According to Wiki Poland is on 21st place in the World GDP wise.
34th population wise.A midget?No.

What's an Estonia?

Estonia is a country in north-east Europe.

With regards to their military, Germany is only behind the UK and France in capability.

Yes, in Europe (excluding Russia ofc) but in the world?
convex 20 | 3,930
24 Oct 2010 #98
Really?I didn't know that.According to Wiki Poland is on 21st place in the World GDP wise.
34th population wise.A midget?No.

Economically it's behind Belgium. Belgium isn't exactly considered a heavyweight.

Estonia is a country in north-east Europe.

Thanks for that, you obviously didn't get the humor, but fair enough.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 503
24 Oct 2010 #99
Looking at Poland's history, Poland has, as we know, all too often been given a bad deal.

Polish people are responsible for Poland. Poland had been dominated by its neighbors because they were invited in by Poland's warring factions.

Looking further back, what had Poland done to the UK, for Churchill to stab Poland in the back at Yalta? it's understandable that a red scumbag like Stalin would harm Poland, but Roosevelt and Churchill for Chrissake!

Poland wasn't stabbed in the back. After the German occupation in the 1940's a large contingent of Poles were communist. That's why you became a communist country. The Russians would have never been able to subjugate the Poles without their consent.

The Polish people are still being badly treated, such as being kept in comparative poverty with such low wages, higher prices than in UK etc.

Who is responsible for this?

OK, so there was no independent Poland on the map during the great 19th-century immigration to the US and most of those who went were illiterate peasants

Those were my ancestors. I had 4 sets of great grandparents all form poland only one being non-polish (Greek). They were peasants. Hard working, proud, intelligent. They built a community. All their neighborhoods were so clean you could eat off the streets. They gravitated towards the skilled trades, butchers, electricians, plumbers, tool and die makers, machinists,etc.

But so where Slovaks, Ukrainians and Hungarians, and yet who has ever heard of Hungarian, Ukrainian or Slovak jokes? There must have been some but not on the scale of the 'Pollack joke'.

The groups that migrated to America: first English,Scot-Irish, Dutch, Scandinavian next German, Irish Catholic, than the Poles, Italians, mexicans. Ukrainians, Hungarians, Czechs Insignificant numbers. Polish jokes come from poles. Those illiterate peasants had a sense of humor.

Maybe Poles themselves are to blame for not being assertive enough. They are often at each others throats but towards foreigners or the host society as émigrés they tend to be meek, mild, complaisant and try to melt into the woodwork rather than stand up for their rights.

Meek? Not assertive? Every neighborhood had a huge Church. Built by the Polish community. Melt in the woodwork? Poles assimilate. They make money. Can't do that if you don't assimilate. The Polish diaspora is a success story. The Polish people in America are not a white underclass.
David_18 66 | 969
24 Oct 2010 #100
Thanks for that, you obviously didn't get the humor, but fair enough

Lier!!!!!!!

Anyway Germany is a Superpower inside a Superpower.
grubas 12 | 1,384
24 Oct 2010 #101
Economically it's behind Belgium.

Not much behind and it could be that it is already ahead.But what about population and the size of territory?Poland is an important player in Europe wheter someone likes it or not.
David_18 66 | 969
24 Oct 2010 #102
Poland wasn't stabbed in the back. After the German occupation in the 1940's a large contingent of Poles were communist. That's why you became a communist country. The Russians would have never been able to subjugate the Poles without their consent.

Kidding me right?
convex 20 | 3,930
24 Oct 2010 #103
Not much behind and it could be that it is already ahead.But what about population and the size of territory?Poland is an important player in Europe wheter someone likes it or not.

But no one cares, and why should they at the moment? It's a big country, like Romania. It's to the East of the epicenter. Right now Poland is a bit player. In 25 years however...well, we'll see how it goes. Judging by the two current political parties ideas, Poland might not grow as quickly as it could.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 503
24 Oct 2010 #104
Kidding me right?

Poland was offered the Marshall Plan but rejected it.
grubas 12 | 1,384
24 Oct 2010 #105
But no one cares, and why should they at the moment?

???

It's a big country, like Romania.

Bigger.

Poland might not grow as quickly as it could.

It doesn't but the country has a potential.
Look I am realistic and I am not saying Poland is a superpower or that it ever will be (unlike G.Friedman).In my book Poland overall (population,economy,size,military) is in the World's 3rd league and I am comfortable with that.
Torq
24 Oct 2010 #106
can you post a link please.

I did. See post no. 64 in this thread.
David_18 66 | 969
24 Oct 2010 #107
Poland was offered the Marshall Plan but rejected it.

HOLY F! you **********

Could be because Moscow-controlled government of Poland rejected joining the program???????

They drained us dry. Wanna know what they offered us? OIL.. and for what? We had to export everything we had to Moscow.

Ever heard of COMECON?

War II division of Europe

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COMECON
Pinching Pete - | 554
24 Oct 2010 #108
Ever heard of COMECON???????

Yeah, we heard of the Warsaw Pact too.
David_18 66 | 969
24 Oct 2010 #109
Since the name is "Warsaw Pact" it MUST mean that the poles implented it right?

The Warsaw pact was every poles dream.... NOT!
sobieski 106 | 2,118
24 Oct 2010 #110
I do not think anybody here (except these sad PIS morons) care about Poland being a "major player". People want to live in a stable society. PIS provides hatred and catholic fascism (and what happened in £ódż was the result of that, it is their own mistake and JK is the main culprit)

But every single project carried out in this country mentions "financed by the EU".
For the first time in its history Poland is part of a democratic, stable and prosperous organisation.
And for all your kowtowing to the US (Iraq, Afghanistan, torturing of prisoners on Polish soil) you are still treated by the Yanks as third-class.

You know me as a Belgian, I do not need a visa for the US. But I never ever would like to go there. Period. I prefer Kraków.
1jola 14 | 1,879
24 Oct 2010 #111
You know me as a Belgian, I do not need a visa for the US. But I never ever would like to go there. Period. I prefer Kraków.

That's right, stick with major players, waffleboy.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 503
25 Oct 2010 #112
Could be because Moscow-controlled government of Poland rejected joining the program?

There was opposition to the communists in Poland after the German occupation but there were too many Poles who supported the communists. Poland was a divided country and Russian support pushed Poland over the top into the communist camp. Now 50 years after this debacle of course, a lot of people deny being communist supporters.
rychlik 41 | 372
25 Oct 2010 #113
Some say that America's culturally WASPified and financially largely Jewish controlled media are responsible for Poland's poor PR image. Maybe Poles themselves are to blame for not being assertive enough. They are often at each others throats but towards foreigners or the host society as émigrés they tend to be meek, mild, complaisant and try to melt into the woodwork rather than stand up for their rights.

You make some good points here and I have to agree with a lot of it. Poles are too passive. They're shy about speaking Polish in public when you have Chinese, Hispanics, Indians, Germans etc. yapping in their languages. I don't understand why? I have witnessed this and it bothers me. I'm the opposite but I'm in the minority. Truth be told I think Poles overseas are weak with no political power. They simply s'uck at it. The best Poles I think have stayed in Poland. And again this has a co-relation to Polish history. Being allies with other nations and helping them, only to be stomped on and oppressed. Seems like todays Poles have been psychologically weakened and oppress themselves, which is very strange. Sad really. But I'm glad I am not like this!
delphiandomine 88 | 18,163
25 Oct 2010 #114
I do not think anybody here (except these sad PIS morons) care about Poland being a "major player".

Kaczynski's speech the other day was highly amusing - talking about Poland becoming "a major sea power" again. Yet - Poland was never a major power in the sea at all, unless you count some badly made boats in the PRL era.

Poland should concentrate on being a regional power - it'll never have the dominance of the "big 4" in the EU, but it can certainly be a major player in Central-Eastern europe.
David_18 66 | 969
25 Oct 2010 #115
There was opposition to the communists in Poland after the German occupation but there were too many Poles who supported the communists. Poland was a divided country and Russian support pushed Poland over the top into the communist camp. Now 50 years after this debacle of course, a lot of people deny being communist supporters.

Ever heard of Propaganda and brainwash?

In the villages it was not easy to resist a job at the factory and get an apartment. After the war people were poor and to get a job you had to join the Communist party.

There was so many benefits being a communist in those days compared to not be one in Poland at that time. If your not with us then you're against us.
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,158
25 Oct 2010 #116
in the 1940's a large contingent of Poles were communist. That's why you became a communist country. The Russians would have never been able to subjugate the Poles without their consent.

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
I can't stop laughing hahahahahha

Poland was offered the Marshall Plan but rejected it.

Now I am 100% sure, your screwing with me ....

Ever heard of Propaganda and brainwash?

In the villages it was not easy to resist a job at the factory and get an apartment. After the war people were poor and to get a job you had to join the Communist party.

Indeed
At that time people had seen Red army fighting Germans which was a big + in the book. Later of course they knew what had happened...

but there were too many Poles who supported the communists.

"Some" is a good word

I think Poland is given a cold shoulder mostly because history and patriotism isn't noted as being an superpower ;)
Convex got most things right
Also not being on the map in 123 in the most important time in Europe when it came to history/propaganda lessons which only Germans, Austrians and Russians were allowed to talk about Poland... Having nothing to say it's no wonder nobody knows or cares about Poland in general.
Seanus 15 | 19,674
25 Oct 2010 #117
It will take a while to ensure that key figures within Poland are prepared to take Poland where certain interest groups want them. Greece was effectively bled dry and Poles should now be allowed to enjoy some prosperity and not be led off down the garden path. Ciggies and other things have shot up in order to bring things in line with EU norms. If the cry 'Polska dla Polaków' (meant as a general preference and not an absolute one) is to have meaning, then a better balance has to be struck between EU harmonisation objectives and Polish daily realities for those that have to live there. That means listening to the people and not shunning them.
rychlik 41 | 372
25 Oct 2010 #118
it'll never have the dominance of the "big 4" in the EU

Why would you say that?? I can see Poland having just as much influence one day as Italy. Just give it time.
Seanus 15 | 19,674
25 Oct 2010 #119
I can see rychlik's point here. Tusk is cautiously building up his ties with other major EU players whereas Berlusconi is a livewire and playboy, likely to cause offence and put his foot in it.
convex 20 | 3,930
25 Oct 2010 #120
The big boys are there because of economy and military. The economic baby of the "Big4" has an economy 5 times larger than that of Poland. Militarily, Poland would need to spend 10% of current yearly GDP to pay the yearly bills, not to mention the acquisition costs needed to upgrade the force to the same standards and size.

Is it possible? Sure.

Will it happen anytime soon? If Italy's economy were to shrink at the same level for the next 50 years (5%) and Poland were to grow at the same rate (1.6%), Italy would still have a larger economy.


Home / News / WHY IS POLAND STILL GIVEN THE COLD SHOULDER?