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Freezing weather in Poland, 42 people dead in winter freeze... and no-one cares?


PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
22 Dec 2009 #91
If I had to panhandle, I would write a sign: "WE NEED BLANKETS". I bet I'd get a lot of them! Not only I could supply the needy, I bet I'd have enough leftovers to start a little side business!

People make the "will work for food" signs because where I live, asking for money is illegal.
f stop 25 | 2,503
22 Dec 2009 #92
PlasticPole
we have our own: "will code for food". ;)
Think Twice
22 Dec 2009 #93
You all debate amongst yourselves, but this is a political issue " WHAT IS THE POLISH GOVERNMENT DOING ABOUT IT ".
FCUK ALL.

Those who claim the economy is the best in Europe, untouched by the global crisis, are sitting on their fat arses and doing nothing.

Those my friends, who,s leader is.......... DONALD TUSK, the man who promised Poland the same prosperity as Ireland, but unfortunately has delivered NOTHING.

There is your problem.

Simple when you think about it.
Arien 3 | 719
23 Dec 2009 #94
Arien, you have a very unrealistic view of the homeless.

Oh really?

I remember standing there in the ABN AMRO bank in Schagen, when a homeless guy tried to open up a bank account, and I overheard the whole conversation from beginning to end, and basically, the woman behind the desk told him it was impossible for him to open up a bank account.

I remember being at the job centre a lot of times, looking for a job myself, and I remember a woman behind the desk finding it extremely funny that there were no jobs available for me at that time, and that I couldn't apply for wellfare. ''Too bad'', she said with a smile on her face.

I remember conversations with employers who told me they didn't have any jobs available at the moment, but I could see Polish people working at the very same company from out of my ******* window on the way back, or seeing an awful lot of cars with both Ukranian and Portuguese license plates outside!

I remember going out in Amsterdam, when a prostitute near Centraal asked me to call her mother for her, and if I could please pay for her ticket back home. (She was practically begging me!) I didn't have the money for her ticket, and I couldn't call her mother because she couldn't tell me the number. I told her to hop on the train, I said **** that ticket, and I'll make sure nobody will tell you to get off the train. She didn't want to come with me, because she didn't trust me.

Oh, and I remember staring at a gun in my face more than once, because you're right, not all the poor guys are begging or asking for it nicely!

I know there are programs, but it's not like this system or its personel will always be extremely helpful to you. (Quite the contrary!) Oh, and in some cases, you will have to take medication. (Which is very hard for people who don't have enough trust in people anymore!) Ofcourse you have the right to refuse medication, but if you refuse, they won't help you.

Civilians? Quite a few people will probably humiliate you, harrass you, or even worse.. I know that there are people out there who would even kill you when they think no one's looking. (Just like some soldiers from our army who were caught on tape when they were kicking a beggar to death, just for the hell of it!) I wonder what would've happened to these soldiers if they weren't caught on tape. Actually, I already know, they would've got on with their lives like nothing ever happened.

Glasses? I can see perfectly. Thanks.

That and Christmas movies will make you forget you wearing a rose colored glasses.

I've seen more **** than you ever will, and I've been humiliated by a lot of people myself, when all I really wanted was a job. Ofcourse, a lot of people will simply point out how lazy and worthless you are, but they don't really want to hear about all these employers who prefer foreigner workers because they're much cheaper, and because they know how to keep their mouth shut about their rights. (I call it modern-day slavery!) I guess that's also too hard to believe for you?

Go find some homeless people and meet them.

I won't even answer that.

Not for a minute do I believe your story about running across a sober, sane, homeless man

A guy, one year younger than me. I've met him on a Friday evening, just before 20:00 on Alkmaar Centraal. He was talking to himself, but he was sane enough. He told me that he had recieved mental care before, but according to him the medicines they gave him just made him worse. Why I say he was sane enough, is because he was completely aware of the fact that he had mental problems, and that he needed help. At first he seemed reluctant and perhaps even scared to talk to me, and he said he thought I would beat him up for a moment. (Which just shows you how these people get treated more often than not!)

that "did not smell" and bought coldcuts with your money while you walked away smiling and his life was changed forever... not for a minute.

I don't think he had been homeless that long really. His shoes were pretty new, and so were the rest of his clothes. (Just a bit dirty!) He wasn't drunk, and he wasn't a junkie. (I've seen enough junkies and alcoholics before, so I can tell the difference.) Oh, and about 20 people were there, some girls have seen me do it, and they've also seen how he walked across the street and bought exactly what I told you he bought.

But according to you, that's impossible. They all buy drugs, right? Oh, and the day I walked off was the day I've met him again. I've asked him for a cigarette on purpose, because I wanted to restore his sense of dignity.

By all means, keep telling yourself they're all chronically homeless if it makes you any happier, and please keep telling everyone how they're all junkies who are beyond help. I know there are a lot of people who are beyond help thank you very much, and I'm not a retard who believes everybody smells of roses, but I know that most homeless people will try anything to get off the street, and most of them actually succeed!

daklozenkrant.nl

I know you can't read it, but this is one of the magazines I've told you about earlier, that homeless people sell on the streets everywhere. In these papers, you can read all kinds of stories about homeless people who went to rehab, who gave up drinking, about people who had mental problems who went for help, women who got out of prostitution, etcetera! I buy these papers and magazines from homeless people regularly.

Boring, I know.

People make the "will work for food" signs because where I live, asking for money is illegal.

Which just shows you in what kind of society some of us really live in. It's illegal to ask for money. It's illegal to help someone. You'll have to excuse me, but I think it's really sad that so many people accept such rules.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,388
23 Dec 2009 #95
News reports suggest at least 42 homeless people died in the recent cold weather.

This problem exists all over the US, the problem of reaching homeless or street people with assistance...Sad to say, but many just do not want help for a variety of reasons...You cannot force people to get help...However, in a situation like this one, in the freezing cold,

people can usually be coaxed, or, at worst, if the cold is life threatening, just lock them up overnight.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
23 Dec 2009 #96
At first he seemed reluctant and perhaps even scared to talk to me, and he said he thought I would beat him up for a moment. (Which just shows you how these people get treated more often than not!)

I had a homeless guy steal my twenty bucks to go buy drugs before. It was money I was going to spend on a hotel room and he took it to buy drugs. As a matter of fact, he lied to me and told me he knew where a reasonably priced hotel room was, but really he didn't. He just told me that to gain my trust so he could get some money to go buy meth or something. So, you see, you do have to be careful. You shouldn't let your guard down. Not everyone can or should be trusted. Sure, there's plenty of hard luck out there, but where was your family, couldn't they help out until you found work? You have to keep applying until you get somewhere and stay with family, as terrible as it sounds, until you can find work.
sadieann 2 | 205
23 Dec 2009 #97
queen??? Was that "queenly"?

fstop, the comments you've made are ghastly. Read the original post. .... OK, now, would you let the homeless freeze to death because they don't fit your protocol of a human being?
f stop 25 | 2,503
23 Dec 2009 #98
okey. In my defense lot of us have strayed from the original post. Besides, my first post was about providing a timely weather info to the outdoor dwellers. But yes, I am a beast. I'm all about Newtons Third Law now.
George8600 10 | 631
23 Dec 2009 #99
In Russia, I accept this. The state doesnt care. But Poland? Why people must die?

You know in Stalinist Russia you didn't see too many homeless people at all. They were either executed or given prolonged gulag sentences as a crime and traitorship against the state for being ill-productive and putting negative weight on societies resources.

If you want me to be honest with you, the problem is purely scientific which is why I am nor a socialist or capitalist but a naturalist. I believe that there are factors at play upon our species. First is, faulty socioeconomic grouping by which too many people get what they don't deserve or vice versa and abuse or lack resources in excess or demeanor. Secondly, it's overpopulation and governemnts that guarantee rights to each individual when clearly there aren't enough resoruces or allocated space on labor, commuting, or healthcare markets. Correlations also point out that strain is being put by lower socioeconomic classes having more children than the higher ones. Thirdly, specieism upon the human race not only negatively affect other species around us and the environment which ironically ends up affecting us, but it has also created ill minded perceptions upon human rights, child rearing, resource lineage and distribution, and institutions overpowering society. I'm sure you could get much more, but then again all these are prominent.
sadieann 2 | 205
23 Dec 2009 #100
I'm all about Newtons Third Law now

I'll go with Newton's First Law.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
23 Dec 2009 #101
OK, now, would you let the homeless freeze to death because they don't fit your protocol of a human being?

It's not about "letting" them freeze to death. They have to take some responsibility for themselves and go inside when it gets cold. Give up whatever lifestyle they are living and head indoors.
nomaderol 5 | 726
23 Dec 2009 #102
I had a homeless guy steal my twenty bucks to go buy drugs before.

if your salary is 1000 usd, but, not 2000 usd,,, your 1000 usd being stolen every month.

and there are drug barons who live in villas you see them everywhere and you think they are clean businessmen - many are washing money or doing somethings. you have to experience with your own eyes? i dont need that, i can think of most of wealthy people do such things or done such things in the past when becoming wealthy.. so, your taxes too being stolen.

you can thank to homeless guy who stole your 20 buck, you had a chance to get angry at him and mentioned your hate at homeless people and i reminded you of how your moneys being stolen everywhere.
sadieann 2 | 205
23 Dec 2009 #103
They have to take some responsibility for themselves and go inside when it gets cold

Hopefully, there is a warm place :)
f stop 25 | 2,503
23 Dec 2009 #104
Yeah Ariel, now your talking! That's much better than making people think that the next homeless person they run into is going to be a famous writer down on her luck.

Just don't make it a competition about who's doing more for the 'downtrotten". No one can match my own gullibility, and I do put my money where my mouth is.

First law is good too, but it sort of implies that you can't change a person. Not a best argument for helping homeless.

here are couple of personal stories that may offer some useful hints for those that actually take homeless people into their homes. Easy to get them in, much harder to get them out. Four cases, all true:

(1) A woman that within weeks needed to share her good fortune with homeless animals. She started bringing stinky old dogs and cats. When given the ultimatum, she moved out with her animals rather then give them up. It was all very civilized, I gave glowing recomendation to her next temporary 'landloard'.

(2) Recovering addict, clean for 2 1/2 years, hard worker. Fell off the wagon couple of months into his stay with me because some girl he met was getting high. Getting him out was a stroke of genius: I offered him a $100 and a ride anywhere within reason (I think he chose his dealer's house) as long as he took all his stuff with him and did not came back.

(3) Puerto Rican girl, with two kids I mentioned earlier. She always paid her bills on time, but looking at her budget, it was clear she'll never going to be able to save enough to get on her own two feet. So I gave her back all the money she paid me. A success story. I still help her once in a while, when her cable TV gets turned off and such, but that's still a great success.

(4) latest - a neighbor that lost his job, house, kids turned bad. Little did I know that his plan was to commit suicide via alcohol. I got him out a month ago, moved him out with his sons on Sunday afternoon. He was too drunk to realize what was going on. He's in jail now, after almost killing somebody while driving drunk. I'm looking around for homeless shelter for when they let him out. I can see that it would be much easier to do that if he accepted Jesus as his personal saviour.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
23 Dec 2009 #105
wow, f stop. Where do you find all these people? Are you in the business of helping the homeless?
f stop 25 | 2,503
23 Dec 2009 #106
oh, they're around. Each time I swear to myself I'll never do it again, somebody else comes around that I'm convinced I can help... Turns out that the great majority of my "social cases" do not know how to think beyond today.

As far as the business, that would be the worst run business in history!
joepilsudski 26 | 1,388
23 Dec 2009 #107
I tell you what: In all cases, you must try and help the homeless and helpless ones...Many are mentally ill, and you cannot communicate with...But you must try, even if the case seems hopeless...Now I don't try to be a saint here: Just try to reach out, because, for the grace of God, there go YOU...Even a kind word may help, a few coins, give it...If you know about social service agencies, tell them about it...As I said, in the winter, police should just lock them up for the night: this way they don't freeze, and maybe some social worker will get a chance to talk with them...Pleases remember: It could be you.
pawian 224 | 24,433
23 Dec 2009 #108
but we cant manage to get homeless people off the streets a week before Christmas? In Russia, I accept this. The state doesnt care. But Poland? Why people must die?

What you propose is removing the homeless from streets by force? Against their will?

We are in Poland. People are free here, they may do what they want. The police and other forces have no right to detain a homeless person and land him/her in a shelter hostel.

And many homeless people don`t want to land there because the rules are strict in such shelters: you drink, you are out.
They prefer to drink, even if it means death outside.

You all debate amongst yourselves, but this is a political issue " WHAT IS THE POLISH GOVERNMENT DOING ABOUT IT ".
FCUK ALL.

Hey, a secret desire of coming back to communist times? When the government decided about everything by thousands regulations?

Isn`t it high time people took care of themselves, instead of counting on government`s help?

How can they do it? One major regulation: don`t drink alcohol and go out into freezing weather. How simple.

Do you think the government should do sth with this drinking? E.g., a little prohibition? No alcohol sale when it is freezing?
Arien 3 | 719
23 Dec 2009 #109
So, you see, you do have to be careful. You shouldn't let your guard down. Not everyone can or should be trusted.

Ofcourse, you're absolutely right about that.

Just don't make it a competition about who's doing more for the 'downtrotten".

Hey, nobody's trying to turn this into a competition sweetheart, but I certainly wouldn't mind it if all of us would make it a sport to help someone else.

No one can match my own gullibility, and I do put my money where my mouth is.

Cute.

:)
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
23 Dec 2009 #110
oh, they're around. Each time I swear to myself I'll never do it again, somebody else comes around that I'm convinced I can help... Turns out that the great majority of my "social cases" do not know how to think beyond today.
As far as the business, that would be the worst run business in history!

Supposedly, it's the "life skills" they lack and what gets them in trouble. At the shelters in my city, they have life skills training with the hope it will get them off the streets and able to cope with the demands of life.
nomaderol 5 | 726
23 Dec 2009 #111
Supposedly, it's the "life skills" they lack and what gets them in trouble.

CEOs of holdinas were supposedly considered as ones with "high life skills". Now, they are searching jobs, in troubles. Dont be surprised if some of them are homelesses now.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
23 Dec 2009 #112
Those are the ones with several bank accounts outstretched across several nations. They will not end up homeless. They save for tomorrow, even at the cost of today. They would put their company in the red if they thought it would mean that they, as individuals, will have a wealthy future.
nomaderol 5 | 726
23 Dec 2009 #113
They aren't CEOs. Do you think their bosses will let them enjoy the life while these bosses themselves are having high tensions under pressure of global crisis? I know of some Ceos around world, now they are looking for jobs for very low salaries. Btw, as a world socialist, i congratulate Ceos pulling companies down to the earth. They didnt do this intentionally, but, it is a good example for how smarts can be useful when they are too smarts.
OP jonni 16 | 2,482
4 Jan 2010 #114
The latest on this:

Winter freeze kills 13 in Poland

Thirteen people died of cold in Poland over the New Year long weekend as temperatures plunged to minus 25 degrees Celsius, taking this winter's toll to 122, police said.

The majority of the victims were homeless men aged 35 to 50 who died of hypothermia while drunk, police said.

news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/winter-freeze-kills-13-in-poland-20100104-lqan.html
wildrover 98 | 4,438
5 Jan 2010 #115
I say again...if you know somebody near you who is living rough get them some help....being an alcoholic does not mean you deserve to freeze to death....
PlasticPole 7 | 2,648
5 Jan 2010 #116
The majority of the victims were homeless men aged 35 to 50 who died of hypothermia while drunk, police said.

That's always a dangerous combination...the frigid night time temperatures and alcohol. You should never drink outside while it's below freezing. It's about to get down to near 0 degrees fahrenheit at night soon and I hope everyone gets indoors. It's nothing to fool around with unless you got a parka, a hat and insulated gloves, not to mention a good pair of insulated boots. Very dangerous temperatures.
Henryk
5 Jan 2010 #117
You should never drink outside while it's below freezing

Vodka OK, beer no good, too much beer freezes in stomach and then problems
wildrover 98 | 4,438
5 Jan 2010 #118
Alcohol lowers your body tempreture anyway add to this the fact it drops further when you fall asleep , then further add some freezing conditions that won,t wake up a person who is drunk , and death is not far away...
Raficoo 3 | 34
22 Jan 2010 #119
wow on Accuweather it says it's -15C with a RealFeel of -25C in Krakow.. dam.. what does it feel like when u guys walk outside? D:
delphiandomine 88 | 18,131
22 Jan 2010 #120
what does it feel like when u guys walk outside?

Like a kick in the balls, to be blunt. I went outside wearing five layers and was still freezing :(


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