'Fort Trump' Military Base in Poland

No that young, a very high percentage are in the 30s or over

Those certainly help the Polish economy, but they are nowhere near enough to preven the demograpic decline of Poland. Especially when many young Polish people are emigrating to Western Europe.


That is a wild exagerration. Besides, this post was about your assumption that the nationalists in Italy are good for Poland, when they are clearly not. Everything they want is in contrast to Polish interests.

Cause they are. The 'core' of the EU is now absorbed with this new situation in Italy. The mortal enemies of the EU bureaucracy are 'nationalist' governments.

The worst case scenario would be a solid front of UE countries against Poland [and Hungary]. Just like it was, and won't be possible again, back in 2000's when the whole of the EU was against newly elected Austrian right-wing government of Jorg Haider. But the situation has changed and the EU has more than one face now. And Germany is slowly losing it's leading role.

In the future the EU would either collapse or become more right-wing and conservative "The Europe of nations". And since they EU was built as a leftist project right from the beginning, I predict it would rather collapse.

Well stated. I would just add utopian to the "leftist" as opposed to evil. Or am I giving them too much credit?

Those companies can easily and quickly relocate to where the money is. The construction industry is dominated by a handful of big players, all of whom are very quickly able to move to where the action is. By the way, should that happen, the Polish subcontractors are screwed as they aren't as mobile.

As much as you're pushing the line straight from Nowogrodzka, it's very obvious to the vast majority of Poles that fighting against the EU is a no-win strategy. The EU isn't some monolith that exists independently from member states, rather it reflects the wishes and will of those members. Wishing and praying for Italy to fight the EU isn't a good thing, because the Italians will look at where they can save money - and guess what? Polish farmers are certainly sucking up plenty of funds that could be used in Italy instead.

Italian nationalists will do what's best for Italy - and guess what? That's not what's best for Poland. Why do you hate Poland so much that you wish for Italian nationalists to screw Poland over?

If you want to cause a paroxysm of laughter in an American, just read that sentence - after some editing - to an American:
"The USA isn't some monolith that exists independently from the member states. Rather it reflects the wishes and will of those members."
If you decide to do it, make sure it's not while they are eating something.

The problem is that YOU and many others believe that to be true,but increasing numbers of Europeans are beginning to see that it is a lie.

Of Germany and France, the rest can eat cake.

Exactly!

What? Since when has the EU managed to exist without the will of the member states? The European Parliament, European Commission and the European Council control the EU, and they're all directly controlled by member states.


You'd be surprised how much influence some smaller members have. For instance, Sweden has a load of influence over the Baltics, and likewise Austria over Slovenia and Slovakia. The EU has always been about consensus, which is why most observers are commenting about how Poland has lost a huge amount of influence since 2015. Poland is standing alone, as even the Hungarians abandoned Poland on key votes.

Where I know an expert on Spain who was recently at a conference in Germany (devoted to Spain) The Spanish kept repeating that EU enthusiasm at present is very low in Spain (and had detailed statistics to back it up and explain why the EU isn't such a great deal for Spain at present) and the German hosts simply could not/would not believe them. It was apparently very surreal....

Polish pro EU attitudes are very instrumental (the emotional high passed long ago) and not based on any emotional attachment to the idea of ever increasing integration.

How much influence has a major state like The UK had over EU decisions?

You mean like Britain who's voice was ignored by the EU for years , which led to so much frustration that the people chose Brexit.

I get ya.

Cheers Dolno!

How so?

Where had Britain been ignored?

And most of all, how does the Brexit help with that???

As much as I enjoy reading your posts, I am concerned about your health. What is your bed time? It's 3 a.m., isn't it? Or did you move to the US?

I'm a digital freelancer (3d model design/graphic design)....means I have no regular bedtime but projects (heh:)...and a discussion board proves a great diversion when I need a break! :)

One of my current clients is in the US, yes...but he doesn't care when I work, only the deadline...

It's good to know and to have you here during these dreadful evening hours when Europe is in bed. Or at least some of it.

That is a misconception at best. The UK has been quite influential within the EU over the years. However the fact that it opted out on many European integration projects naturally limited its' influence in some areas.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/07/09/british-influence-in-brussels-had-been-far-greater-than-recognised/

Not always, but often during the night, when everything else sleeps and its quiet, the work goes often easier from the hand than in the day hours when everybody and his grandmom wants something from me.

So the wishes of Poland should be equally satisfied as the wishes of Germany or France.

And we also have the same right to shape the EU according to our wishes.

Poland wishes the EU to become the Europe of sovereign nations and not some socialistic federation.

The rules on how the EU operates are clearly defined. If you want to change things, then you need consensus from other member states. You can't just change the way the whole EU operates because Nowogrodzka says so. You'll notice that with 27-1, other member states had no time for Poland playing stupid games.


Isn't it strange that you support the most socialist government in modern Polish history, yet claim to oppose it?

Yes we can, it's is only a matter of putting enough pressure on the EU institutions and getting enough allies to support us. Right now the EU puts pressure on us but this dynamic may reverse sooner that you think.

Wishful thinking. Why would Italy and Austria support Polish interests? What motive would Italy have for supporting an economic rival when they have huge problems of their own? Wouldn't it be better for Italy to support German interests, as Germany is able to pay for Italy and Poland isn't?

Poland is rather more likely to end up left out in the cold. Even the "V4 allies" haven't actually allied with Poland on any key decisions, and both the Czechs and Slovaks have made it clear that they don't want to create any sort of "anti-EU" alliance.

They don't have to support us directly. It is enough if they bring disruption and make the EU core weaken its grip.

Politics is like a game of chess and you have a mindset that of a checkers player.

The real reason why there's an attack on Poland is that Poland on the rise and it represents values which are 'unacceptable' for the old EU: patriotism, conservatism, Christian religion.

They don't give a squat about some commie judges being released, all they care about is to be able to 'discipline' us at will and influence Poland in the way they want.

And Poland cannot bend to that pressure.

At first they'll fight us but then they'll have to accept the new state of things and deal with us on new terms and conditions.

You're living in a fantasyland created in Nowogrodzka.


Don't you realise that they are the EU core? The EU isn't some creation of France and Germany, it's a union of all 28 member states who each influence it. Italy won't weaken the EU, but will bend the EU in its favour - which means Poland loses. We've already seen how Italy along with Spain have pushed the EU to divert funds south rather than east - how are they any sort of ally?


Seriously, you could try and not regurgitate exactly what gets published in magazines controlled by PiS. Poland's rise is almost completely because of foreign companies, and if they decide to leave, Poland is back to the early 2000's with the 20% unemployment rate. There's nothing particularly special in Poland, Romania is comparable and has cheaper workers. What has Poland got domestically? It's relying on importing Donbas coal, the IT sector is filled with foreigners who can easily relocate, and what else? Nothing.

Poland will bend and break because there's no alternative. Patriotism is just a fashionable slogan at the minute and means nothing in every day lives, conservatism lost badly in almost every Polish city of any note, and religion? It means nothing and attendance at mass is declining more and more.

All this PiS-promoted arrogance won't get Poland anywhere, except into the hands of Moscow.

Putin is surely cheering a weakened EU....

And then, when they have "weakened" their own neighbourhood/natural support net enough and Putin can make it's moves, then they cry and look again to far away countries for help. For some so obsessed with their history they for sure deny some of the most important lessons...

The self-destructive stupidity of those EU-hater just has no limits!

That is exactly what it is. And we have to change it


They would soon realise that I'm far more radical than them when it comes to foreign politics of Poland. And also that I'm a supporter of a free market capitalism, cuts in bureaucracy, and that I would rather lower the taxes instead of creating welfare programs. So I wouldn't be very welcomed.

I know it would be easier for you to put me in the box and then stomp on it, but you'll have to attack my arguments instead of me personally as a "member of PiS" :-)


A remedy for that problem is NATO not the EU. European Union has nothing to do with military pact

As a side note: Germany doesn't see it as a problem making a strategic deals like Northstream II with Russia behind our backs and against our will.

In the propaganda, perhaps. The reality is that is that you're facing 27 other countries, many of whom want nothing to do with Poland's fight with the EU. You only have to look at 27-1 to see what they really thought about Poland stamping her feet like a spoilt child.

Enormous food processing, agriculture and chemical industries among the largest in eu. Also a large textile industry. Quite a bit of coal and copper too. In certain products like Also one of the largest auto manufacturing industries in the eu. Vw mercedes fiat etc arent going to shut down billion dollar facilities just bc they dont agree with the political climate. Also cheap workers are only part of the equation. Theres many reasons why companies chose places like Mexico vietnam china for production instead of say honduras cambodia or myanmar. Same w choosing poland over romania or bulgaria. Poles have higher education levels, more skills, more speak english and theres simply a larger labor force.

Also germany is polands largest importer of coal. Poland buys coal from ukraine bc of its low cost and resells a lot of it.