'Fort Trump' Military Base in Poland

Thats a load of crap. Do you live here? Because I do! Just because you didn't hear it on your Germany media doesnt change the fact that Americans have been upset for years, way before Trump, about Germany not paying it fair share. Im tired of repeating myself to you,get it through your head its not because of Trump, we cant stand you sneaky Germs for a long time.


So, you do have the money, only when someone else isnt paying the bill though?

And you think its because of Trump..Hahahaha!


I really wish he would get us out of this horrible deal, most Americans do.

The whole concept of NATO is outdated....of course Germany has the money...but there is absolutely no will. To pay more for NATO, to give in to Trump, is no vote winner in Germany.

It was probably a good idea when it was formed, but it is outdated now. They have the money and manpower to build their own defense. I would think they would want us out of there by now.


At least Germany is in Europe. The whole things seems to be getting out of hand when Turkey was allowed to join. Do Europeans consider this country to be part of Europe? I dont.

Me neither!

Turkey in NATO becomes a joke too...

....nah...it's all about Trumpists! :)



For most USians (even 80% of the Reps) everything is good and dandy.

We just have to sit Trump out...

Okay...more Germans are abit miffed....



pewglobal.org/2018/02/28/americans-say-u-s-german-relations-are-in-good-shape-but-germans-disagre

The US pushed for their NATO membership because of Turkey's geographic location and their large army.


I agree. It probably makes more sense that the Europeans get together and take care of their own defense. The French have the nukes, Germany has the economic power. Perfect combination. I doubt though that America will let Europe go that easily. The bases on the continent are far too valuable, and the radar and spying installations also.


Speaking of:
Your president wants to end birthright citizenship for illegals, have you heard? Maybe it's time for you to start packing, anchor baby. For Trump, you've never been a real American. Ha ha ha!

The problem with this entire debate is how dishonest Trump and others are about it.

No one can deny that the European countries need to spend more on their defence. The previous low spending was done under the assumption that there was no conventional threat to Europe anymore. Ukraine proves that wrong. And most Nato members have already significantly increased their spending and intent to continue doing so. The debate ought to end here.

Instead Trump continues to insult his allies. Allies who are -thanks to the USA - stuck in an endless war in Afghanistan. He also wrongly suggests that any increase in spending will benefit the USA which is plainly wrong. Because a) most of the additional spending will be used for European weapons and b) the USA is only spending a fraction of its' budget on European defence. The biggest US military base on foreign soil is in Japan, and those in Europe are mostly used for logistics.

I could somewhat respect his arguments if he intented to decrease military spending of the USA. Instead he increased it further. Yet he suggests that the Allies are costing the USA money.

I have no problem with Germany paying less or nothing at all. I have a problem with the US paying anything for NATO.

Imagine the US without it's "stick"...and only with carots....

I will. The European countries need to spend what they think they need to spend to stay safe. Without the US involved in any way.


You didn't have to join. You don't have to stay. Just leave and see what happens. You would actually do us, the US taxpayers, a favor by rattling the cages in the DC.


Couldn't agree with you more. Pure insanity. And that tax cut.

Nice heavily biased chart brought to you by the Pew, not really realible? Its header says Democrat!

Again, BB I live here and you can keep googling all you want, but its not how the public really feels.

I just found were you found it on google, but on yahoo,, #13..lol Please try harder next time.

pewglobal.org/2015/05/07/germany-and-the-united-states-reliable-allies/u-s-germany-relations-13


Its a dead horse, an antiquated deal that should be dissolved.

Public surveys are like a box of chocolates: you never know what you're going to get.



The European council even get a "public opinion" on how the EU will perceive America in 2028. That's just wunderbar

Why stop here?

I wonder why my reaction to "how the EU will perceive America in 2028" includes a word that starts with the letter f. No, I don't think it's "fantastic".

I hope Trump is no longer prez by then because already Germans think even Russia is more trustworthy than Trump-US.


dw.com/en/germans-say-russia-is-more-reliable-than-the-united-states/a-41728582

Oh....and there is another:


reuters.com/article/us-germany-security-poll/most-germans-think-europe-can-defend-itself-without-u-s-help-poll-idUSKBN1KD1DB


stripes.com/news/poll-42-of-germans-want-us-troops-out-of-country-1.537230

But this tops it all:


Here you find the reason why any NATO-threats made by Trump are abit useless...Germany might even take him up on them one day....

Please stop posting links excessively - people can use Google too.

That is exactly why we elected Trump! To make you wonder what's next. Predictability is stupid. Just try to conduct any war while predictable. Yes, I used the word "war" deliberately. In a zero-sum world, everything is a war - shooting, cultural, financial, trade, you name it.

In my world view, Germany making friends with Russia would be an event to celebrate as this would lead to a dissolution of that fossil, NATO, and a relief for the US taxpayers.

Reliability is good only when the relationship is fully reciprocal. Right now, it's not even close.

Yeah...you are right...all this excitement! How could we do without it before??? :)


Again....Trump has maybe 7 more years (when he is running till the very end)...not enough time to build a friendly trust between Putin-Russia and Germany and all that could entail.

What is already happening is the generally strengthening of the EU (the polls hadn't been so much pro-EU before Trump/Brexit as they are now) and the start of more independence from the US. Which we both agree could be a good thing in the long run.

So IMHO it won't be so much a new German-Russo Alliance as a stronger and more self-assured/independent EU after Trump.

....and a huge relief to the US taxpayers. Love the idea!

Agreed! :)

That's the funniest thing that I've read in a long time on this forum.

In the age of Brexit, the UE war against democratically elected governments of Hungary and Poland, huge refugee crisis in France, Germany and Sweden, Italy bashing the EU and Germany for messing with their new elected government and monetary politics you are talking about strengthening of the EU...

Have you had one schnapps too many today, @BratwurstBoy?

The refugee crisis is de facto over. Brexit seems to be the best thing happening to the EU for a long time, since it strengthened public support for it. The conflicts with Hungary and Poland are no threat to the EU (though they are no doubt hurting Poland and Hungary in the long run if they do not compromise).

The problems with Italy are more relevant, though again hardly a threat because the EU holds all the cards here.

Italy is dangerous for Poland and Hungary. They've clearly had enough of spending money on the EU, and cutting the Italian contributions to those two countries would go down very very well domestically. If Italy does it, the rest will follow.

That's the inherent failure of nationalists...they prefer to go against each other! They are at each others throats in no time.

Hence why one nationalist cheers the successes of foreign nationalists is beyond me...it takes a remarkable short sightedness and plain stupidity to not be able to look around the next corner.

That's the difference between nationalists and patriots in a nutshell. A patriot want's what's best for his country....a nationalist want's other countries go to hell!

That depends. Cheering for German or Ukrainian nationalists wouldn't be a smart move for Poland. And it doesn't happen in Poland except for some narrow minded individuals.

However, cheering up for Italian nationalists, which doesn't represent any direct threat to Polish interests is a different story. Supporting them only weaken those who are our political rivals. It's a zero sum game we're playing here.

You've mentioned a realpolitik earlier on this forum. That's a lesson in realpolitik for you then @BratwurstBoy.

You seem to be very misinformed about the aims of the Italian populists party. They want to drastically reduce the structural funds of the EU, divide incoming refugees and want an end to the sanctions against Russia. All of this goes against Poland's vital interests.


European politics do not need to be a zero sum game anymore thanks to the EU.

They would rather stop any refugees from coming to Italy at all instead of dividing them. But since the last government took so many now they want to get rid of them.

And I think that they understand that it is not fault of those who don't want to participate in relocation but rather of those who invited an unlimited numbers of illegals without asking the other countries in Europe.

Indeed, they want to save money (or at least get it diverted to southern Italy, which is in a far worse state than much of Poland now), send refugees to Poland and to end the sanctions against Russia. None of that is in Poland's interest, and unlike Poland, they're big and strong enough so that people will listen to them.

I also suspect there's plenty of sympathy among other net contributors to the EU to the Italian problem, hence it won't be an issue to divert funds from Poland to Italy instead.

Italy is also a founding member of the EU and the EURO zone, that gives them even more sway....

Even Poland's PiS is sad to see Merkel go, refugee crises or not. As she was a guarantee that Poland's interests would not be overlooked.

A guarantee Orban's Hungary can't and Salvini's Italy won't give...as wouldn't a Farage's UK, a LePen's France or a Gauland's Germany.

This is also an interesting subject since Polish economy is growing at a much faster pace than the "old EU" Poland will soon become a net payer to the EU budget. We're talking about ~10 years from now.

So the "structural fund blackmail" will be the thing of the past in a near future.

Yet I think that if we have to make a choice between losing some structural funds now or committing a demographic suicide and taking those "refugees", it is still better to forget about the money. This will pay better in the long term.

And also this kind of blackmail from the EU pushes Poles more to the right, which in my opinion is a good thing, yet the EU wouldn't like that.

We've got something to lose but also the EU. The days of pushing Poland around are over.

Those are rather optimistics estimates that assume that Poland will receive until then a similar amount of money via the funds. If those funds are reduced, it will naturally slow don Poland's economy. I also suspect that it does not consider Poland's fast ageing society. Regardless, Poland will be hit hard by any reduction of the funds, that is beyond dispute.

That's why there are over 2 million young Ukrainian labourers on work visas in Poland. As opposed to 'refugees' they came here to work and to contribute to the economy. They also do not tend to commit terrorist attacks.


There's a lot of German companies active on Polish market, many of them are involved in building infrastructure in Poland. They will be equally hit by this possible structural funds reduction.

Also, Poland may look at China in a more favourable way and support their new Silk Road project when treated unfairly by the UE and Germany. China is very anxious to get a direct connection to European market and even started a 16+1 platform of cooperation. Poland has some good cards in hand and more than one player to play with.

spiegel.de/international/business/chinese-economic-expansion-has-germany-worried-a-1209325.html