How does that work? You need a referendum on what we have a referendum on..
The Swiss do it pretty often and it works for them.
The precise details and percentages of turnout and voting margins can be established (and tweaked as necessary).
Far-right surge in Germany and Poland
The Swiss do it pretty often and it works for them.
The precise details and percentages of turnout and voting margins can be established (and tweaked as necessary).
@mafketis
It's elected officials deciding what's on the ballot which is crazy. They should have a manifesto rather than abdicating their responsibility to implement their electoral platform.
It's elected officials deciding what's on the ballot which is crazy. They should have a manifesto rather than abdicating their responsibility to implement their electoral platform.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 13193
The left and right both use populist rhetoric but this exchange started with defining far..
In one word? Nativism!
Thats the main difference to the Left, even Far Left...IMHO it all comes down to it: Our people first! And thats why it is and further will be so successful! As most people think first about their closest family instead of far way people...
Its an anti-globlization movement at the bottom. Where the Left has always been dreamed of a world-liberation of the working class (more or less) and now has taken over the defense of global institutions, global treaties, no borders etc., something what was in former years more a capitalist stance as they and their industries had been the most to profit from them.
All abit weird, if you think about it, no wonder lotsa people feel overwhelmed by it...but thats the new age!
It's elected officials deciding what's on the ballot which is crazy.
Who said they should do that? Citizen initiatives should decide what goes to referendum.
@Bratwurst Boy
Globalisation is an economic policy championed by oligarchs and implemented by right leaning governments. People opposed to it couldn't see the advantage to working people of stopping manufacturing in much of the west. Of course the holy grail of "free trade" was always going to rebound on the right who have done a 180 on it. Of course left leaning parties were opposed to it and it's good the right are pretending to have seen their error. What they didn't explain was that the other side of the movement of capital is the movement of people. That wasn't helped with the mad wars the right launched.
It's absurd to group global institutions and treaties together. It's not just the western left that champions a pooling of sovereignty in the UN or ICC. Most global governments do be they left or right. The outliers are rogue states. Rogue states in that they do their own thing irrespective of collective decisions. Other things thought of as global institutions are no such thing like the world bank the G7 the G20 or OPEC.
Serbia tried drawing a line around their own people but others suffered.
Globalisation is an economic policy championed by oligarchs and implemented by right leaning governments. People opposed to it couldn't see the advantage to working people of stopping manufacturing in much of the west. Of course the holy grail of "free trade" was always going to rebound on the right who have done a 180 on it. Of course left leaning parties were opposed to it and it's good the right are pretending to have seen their error. What they didn't explain was that the other side of the movement of capital is the movement of people. That wasn't helped with the mad wars the right launched.
It's absurd to group global institutions and treaties together. It's not just the western left that champions a pooling of sovereignty in the UN or ICC. Most global governments do be they left or right. The outliers are rogue states. Rogue states in that they do their own thing irrespective of collective decisions. Other things thought of as global institutions are no such thing like the world bank the G7 the G20 or OPEC.
Serbia tried drawing a line around their own people but others suffered.
OP Lyzko9bda5804d1f
B.B., the last honest to gosh intellectual in US politics was Sen. Adlai Stevenson of Illinois who ran in 1960 on the JFK ticket, nearly sixty-five years ago!
Barry Goldwater, Rep. of Arizona, was no slouch upstairs either. Hasn't been a phrase maker like that in decades.
Barry Goldwater, Rep. of Arizona, was no slouch upstairs either. Hasn't been a phrase maker like that in decades.
@mafketis
I want a ballot on beer mats but have to run an election campaign against those who don't want a ballot on beer mats. Repeat ad nauseam.
It seems reasonable but in practice limit# etc need to be places on this exercise in open democracy. I still think it's crazy
I want a ballot on beer mats but have to run an election campaign against those who don't want a ballot on beer mats. Repeat ad nauseam.
It seems reasonable but in practice limit# etc need to be places on this exercise in open democracy. I still think it's crazy
OP Lyzko9bda5804d1f
Yet the local election results in Germany would clearly indicate a most anti-democratic tenor, don't you think?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 13193
"anti-democratic"....I dunno what to do with such a smear word!
The AfD has done the whole long road, all the hard needed work, starting with tiny 3% 10 years back....the full hard democratic process to now nearly 30% in the whole land....where exactly comes the anti-democratic in?
Just calling them that isn't going to cut it (anymore)....or otherwise they would be already forbidden, but till now not only the process for that is even started, so...
The AfD has done the whole long road, all the hard needed work, starting with tiny 3% 10 years back....the full hard democratic process to now nearly 30% in the whole land....where exactly comes the anti-democratic in?
Just calling them that isn't going to cut it (anymore)....or otherwise they would be already forbidden, but till now not only the process for that is even started, so...
@Lyzko9bda5804d1f
Democracy is an elastic concept meaning many things to many people. Where I live it's a gerrymander only existing because of an external power. The German borders are settled. I don't like the AfD but haven't read anything about their desire to corrupt the current system in Germany.
Democracy is an elastic concept meaning many things to many people. Where I live it's a gerrymander only existing because of an external power. The German borders are settled. I don't like the AfD but haven't read anything about their desire to corrupt the current system in Germany.
OP Lyzko9bda5804d1f
Oh, I get it. So Democracy is elastic, but Fascism is cut and dried. That about the size of it?
So Democracy is elastic
The concept is, it means different things to different people. This exchange was about you claiming that AfD had an anti democratic tone to it. Using tone implies a spectrum which prompted me to suggest elastic ie people bend it to their ideology.
Fascism is cut and dried
Fascism has clearly defined characteristics and as discussed earlier the term has been for very good reasons used but also abused.
OP Lyzko9bda5804d1f
Hmm, Barn, mighty fluid definitions of once immutable concepts.
How the pray do you define racism or prejudice? As just a different way of looking at things?
Ahemm, what are you smoking?
How the pray do you define racism or prejudice? As just a different way of looking at things?
Ahemm, what are you smoking?
Przelotnyptak1 1 | 1412
mighty fluid definitions of once immutable concepts.
Sorry Lyzko, immutable concept is an oxymoron. Concept being very fluid state of mind is by definition on impossibility of being immutable.
OP Lyzko9bda5804d1f
Ah, another creative speaker, I see.
External
Weidel
Weidel is a lesbian with a wife from Sri Lanka. Not your typical fascist, is it?
wife from Sri Lanka
Born there but adopted as an infant by parents in Switzerland.
OP Lyzko9bda5804d1f
Again people, the AfD is simply putting a new spin on an old problem.
J.D. Vance might well be a dyed-in-the-wool WASP of impeccable down homeboy heritage, yet his wife's from India.
Trump's latest wife's from Croatia.
J.D. Vance might well be a dyed-in-the-wool WASP of impeccable down homeboy heritage, yet his wife's from India.
Trump's latest wife's from Croatia.
Przelotnyptak1 1 | 1412
Ah, another creative speaker, I see.
What is your problem?
Trump's latest wife's from Croatia.
Slovenia actually. Or am I wrong, possible.
OP Lyzko9bda5804d1f
My Problem???!
Look who's talking!
Look who's talking!
Przelotnyptak1 1 | 1412
My Problem???! Look who's talking!
The problem is Croatia or Slovenia. You must be tormented by even a hint of criticism. Don't worry, your degree from the Community College is honored
all over the world. Loosen up a little, don't be a stick in the mud
OP Lyzko9bda5804d1f
Criticism is fine, only it's a two way street as well. You're not above criticism yourself.
far-right my foot. Away with Marxist scum.
OP Lyzko9bda5804d1f
No difference between Marxist and Fascist scum; both are too extreme!
Let's after all be fair😊
Let's after all be fair😊
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 13193
A real question from me Lyzko....when a party follows all the rules in gathering votes, does all the hard ground work for years and is then elected in open free elections by lotsa voluntary voters who have a real choice between many different parties....why is it then called anti-democratic?
....why is it then called anti-democratic
Don't ask us about it, ask the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND).
OP Lyzko9bda5804d1f
On the other hand, no "Mutti" Merkel, no AfD victory in Sachsen-Anhalt, that's for dang sure!!
If you're too open minded, sometimes your brains fall out:-)
If you're too open minded, sometimes your brains fall out:-)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 13193
Don't ask us about it, ask the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND).
They won't answer me either....so it stays all really mysterious! 😏
If you're too open minded, sometimes your brains fall out:-)
Heh:) Der war gut! 😁
OP Lyzko9bda5804d1f
Agreed, pal? Einverstanden, Alter?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 13193
Absolut...