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European News and Poland Thread 2


mafketis 29 | 10,321
17 Oct 2021 #991
The current PiS baƂagan?

Put them in camps, fingerprint and dna test them. Look over their cases in record time (saying no to 99.9% of them) and fly them back to where they came from with a modest sum (5000 euro) for their trouble and a warning that if they try to cross an EU border again illegally they are automatically refused and sent back with nothing.

What's the closest we can get to that now?
jon357 69 | 18,457
17 Oct 2021 #992
You can't avoid the question and then ask the questioner to answer the question

I'm not posing it. If I had the all the answers (or a dislike of refugees), that would be different.

fly them back to where they came from with a modest sum (5000 euro)

That's not the worst response by far, though I'd use empty hotels and pensionaty rather than camps.
amiga500 2 | 992
17 Oct 2021 #993
and fly them back to where they came from

The problem is that many countries are refusing repatriation flights.. Also most have no identification, many lie where they came from. Establishing who they are is very difficult. Many cases would be tied up in appeals to the ECR. they would be here for months, years. There would be social costs regardless whether they are kept in closed detention centres or open camps.
mafketis 29 | 10,321
17 Oct 2021 #994
I'd use empty hotels and pensionaty rather than camps

Security, if they're not detained they're off to Germany which is politically incapable of deporting them...

many countries are refusing repatriation flig

Economic and/or political sanctions to hit them quick and hard.

Realpolitik gets a bad rep but it does have its place.
jon357 69 | 18,457
17 Oct 2021 #995
Security,

That can be done in a hotel. Harder, but why shy away from what's difficult if it's achievable.

Camps, no.

many lie where they came

Now I'm the one being callous, however if people are returned to where they say they came from, this would encourage truth.
Spike31 3 | 2,483
18 Oct 2021 #996
I'd use empty hotels and pensionaty rather than camps.

Is your wallet deep enough to provide them with housing and the means of living?

I'd argue that every single lefty "humanist" is allowed to take care of a refugee(s) as long as he/she signs a contract that states that it's their sole responsibility to house them and to take care of them financially during the stay.

Let's see how many real "humanists" we really have. It's easy to be charitable at someone else's expense
mafketis 29 | 10,321
18 Oct 2021 #997
Assuming that Poland manages to stop the flow at the Belarusian border... and realizing that by now human trafficking is probably an important source of extra income for lots of people who won't want to give that up...

What will be the next move of the Lukashenka human trafficking network? How should the EU be preparing for that?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,694
18 Oct 2021 #998
Today the german police union demands border controls zu Poland...."a collapse looms".....it must be really bad!

bild.de/politik/inland/politik-inland/wegen-flucht-route-polizisten-verlangen-grenzkontrollen-nach-polen-77987452.bild.html
Spike31 3 | 2,483
18 Oct 2021 #999
You know, @BratwurstBoy, if Merkel didn't send a clear signal in 2015 "refugees wilkommen!" we wouldn't have all those waves of "refugees" coming to Europe. Or at least there would be much less of them.

Most of those Belarusian "tourists" are refusing to get a refugee status in Poland and are clearly stating that they want to get to Germany at all cost where they will directly apply for "refugees" status [and sponge on welfare handouts]. Don't vote for stupid in the future.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,535
18 Oct 2021 #1,000
Let's not forget that if it were not for Lukashenka, there wouldn't be any refugee crisis on Poland's eastern border.

Polans should engage the Frontex into the crises on her border which she, I am told, refuses.
Spike31 3 | 2,483
18 Oct 2021 #1,001
Lukashenko has used this opportunity to get back at the EU and Poland but the whole political climate for "refugees" was prepared by Merkel in the past and helped him greatly.

Frontex, just like any other EU organization is useless, what would actually help is if Germany chipped in for the cost of the wall on the Belarusian border. Poland is protecting their borders as much as its own borders.
amiga500 2 | 992
18 Oct 2021 #1,002
prepared by Merkel in the past and helped him greatly.

Yes, Merkel got the EU to give Edrogan billions , now Lukashenko expects the same
mafketis 29 | 10,321
18 Oct 2021 #1,003
if it were not for Lukashenka, there wouldn't be any refugee crisis on Poland's eastern border

More specifically it was the reaction to his hijacking of a Ryanair plane and arrest of a passenger (when was he last seen in public) that set him off.

By now Lukashenka is simply a snarling rat backed into a corner and snapping at anything that moves...

Polans should engage the Frontex

I'm not sure if Frontex would do much besides let them in (and facilitate their travel to Germany which clearly doesn't want them while not having the political will to state this openly). Alternately it would put them in detention camps (as in Lithuania) which would once more raise the whole "Polish concentration camp" issue.... is that a good idea?

I try to be pro-German but... it was and remains a political basket case when it comes to migration. Unable to move on from disastrously failing policies and lacking the ability to do much of anything beyond adding more to the welfare rolls...
amiga500 2 | 992
18 Oct 2021 #1,004
if Frontex would do much besides let them in

As i previously posted, frontex are just observers, they have no power to dictate policy to nation-state border and immigration authorities.

What will be the next move of the Lukashenka

Send em via Ukraine.
jon357 69 | 18,457
18 Oct 2021 #1,005
Poland should engage the Frontex

As other states do yet Poland shies away from; hence the current mess.

no power to dictate policy

Who said anything about 'dictating' policy, and why would the current regime distance themselves from it in the middle of a crisis.
mafketis 29 | 10,321
18 Oct 2021 #1,006
Denmark also finds that non-western 'immigrants' are a financial burden receiving more in government services than they pay in to the system...

thelocal.dk/20211015/denmark-says-non-western-immigrants-cost-state-31-billion-kroner/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

frontex are just observers

so what use are they?

Send em via Ukraine.

Pretty obvious when you look at a map (and I'm sure they're building the networks right now as I type). Will the EU be caught completely flat-footed and dumbfounded by this development?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,694
18 Oct 2021 #1,007
You know, @BratwurstBoy, if Merkel didn't send a clear signal in 2015 "refugees wilkommen!" we wouldn't have all those waves of "refugees" coming to Europe.

*sighs*

So true!

Merkel letting herself photograph with happy refugees was surely nice for her (and for those poor sods) but it really did send out the wrong message of "Mutti Merkel"!

Don't vote for stupid in the future.

Well...Merkel's party is ousted....still don't bet on it to get better......how is that wall of yours coming along?
amiga500 2 | 992
18 Oct 2021 #1,008
so what use are they?

So people can use buzzwords like european solidarity and co-operation. Also because the oppositon says the government are refugee murdering fascists, they spread the public illusion that having a civilised european organisation there will magically solve the impossible issues.
mafketis 29 | 10,321
18 Oct 2021 #1,009
the oppositon thinks the government are refugee murdering fascists

No they don't. But they think it's a weak point and so they're attacking it relentlessly I'm sure most opposition leaders making this a public issue don't care at all about the migrants (long or short term).

As much as I hate PiS (for very good reasons) I understand why they're doing this and as awful as it is in the short term, it's the only option that offers a longer term solution (shutting down the flow).

EU migrant law is a dysfunctional mess and the EU has not managed to even begin to untangle it...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,694
18 Oct 2021 #1,010
I'm waiting for the moment when the no-refugees governments become the majority in the EU....maybe then Frontex will be upgraded and walls will be build....

Such decisions need only majority....and the german gov would have the perfect excuse....
amiga500 2 | 992
18 Oct 2021 #1,011
should be an intersting day tommorow in the European parliament. seems the eu is falling apart already, the parliament wants to sue the commision over poland! will be watching morawiecki giving these caviar quaffing bloviating bufoons full barrels tommorow wpolityce.pl/polityka/570409-polska-pod-pregierzem-premier-wysle-list-do-szefow-rzadow
mafketis 29 | 10,321
18 Oct 2021 #1,012
will be watching morawiecki

that crook?

As bad as the EU can be sometimes it's a lot better than Russia... and without the EU-NATO guess who's going to suck Poland right back into its sphere of influence?

The court thing is just a typical PiS debacle - transparently trying to politicize the courts to always rule in the government's favor and punishing judges who don't. That's some serious Soviet style crap right there. But that's who JK is, someone who's never outgrown the PRL...
Ziemowit 13 | 4,535
18 Oct 2021 #1,013
seems the eu is falling apart already

There is a long way to this goal. Sooner Poland will collapse than the EU falls apart.
jon357 69 | 18,457
18 Oct 2021 #1,014
that crook?

More a cretin than a crook really.

long way to

Yes. If anything, it'll get stronger.
amiga500 2 | 992
18 Oct 2021 #1,015
As bad as the EU can be sometimes it's a lot better than Russia.

It's not about wether to ditch the eu or not, it's about wether it becomes the united states of europe or a community of nations. Poland alongst with others is for the latter, regardless it'll still be part of the EU.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,694
18 Oct 2021 #1,016
t's about wether it becomes the united states of europe

Man, imagine we would be the USofE....we would already be building and securing our outer borders! No squabbling between governments anymore....Lukaschenko or the traffickers would have no chance....
mafketis 29 | 10,321
18 Oct 2021 #1,017
imagine we would be the USofE....... No squabbling between governments anymore....

Not familiar with the US today, are you?

The covid... phenomenon has been marked by a lot of tension and squabbling between the federal and various state governments.
Cojestdocholery 2 | 273
18 Oct 2021 #1,018
Assuming that Poland manages to stop the flow at the Belarusian border...

Poland should transport those people at German border and point them in the right direction. After all Germany doesn't help. They rather pay Turkey or Lukaszenko than Poland to guard eastern border of the EU.

Jedem das Seine.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,694
18 Oct 2021 #1,019
Poland should transport those people at German border and point them in the right direction

Our interior minister Seehofer is now supporting the strengthening/increase of the german border police...(after our police union wrote a warning letter)....a decision could come already this Wednesday!

remonews.com/canada/due-to-many-illegal-entries-seehofer-wants-border-controls-in-poland-internal-politics/

newsrnd.com/news/2021-10-18-controls-or-border-%E2%80%9Ccollapse%E2%80%9D--police-union-warns-seehofer---and-draws-comparison-with-2013.HygdV0h9St.html
Cojestdocholery 2 | 273
18 Oct 2021 #1,020
Our interior minister Seehofer is now supporting the strengthening/increase of the german border police.

Right? They rather do that than give some money to Poland. They have no problem to give money to die undemokratischen Regime than Poland.
It is a good example of German maxime - Jeder fasst sich an seine eigene Nase.
Somehow Poland should be different and listen to Berlin.

Not to forget Germany waging a war on Poland. They wnat to smear Poland with being gulity of the Holocoust. German 'historians' and their Deutungskampfe , their aim is clear they want to interpret history in the way that would point at Poles as Komplizen.


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