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European News and Poland Thread 2


jon357 67 | 17,553
10 Oct 2021 #811
Is there any real evidence Germany (or the EU) is opposed to current Polish actions?

They're sensible enough to keep their hands clean. Though as I said, Lithuania are working together on the issue with Frontex and don't have the same problems (or the same 'politicians' making an exhibition of themselves).
Tacitus 2 | 1,383
10 Oct 2021 #812
That sounds ominous

Just stating a fact. Germany signed a treaty and now has to live up to its' promises, just like the other signatories.
Lyzko 31 | 7,809
10 Oct 2021 #813
In a true New Deal-style democracy, the government works FOR the people, not only the reverse. Germans don't want to feel dísenfranchised any more than anybody else and it's a living tribute to the strength of post-War German democracy that they didn't elect a Trump like figure as a reaction to the Merkel fiasco. Annagret Kramp Karrenbauer would've been Merkel lite.
Novichok 1 | 4,255
10 Oct 2021 #814
the Merkel fiasco.

What fiasco? In a democracy, there are no fiascos. People get what they freely voted for.
They wanted migrants so they got migrants. I wonder what made them change their minds...
Lyzko 31 | 7,809
10 Oct 2021 #815
And therefore America "deserved" the Trump disaster as Germany did the Syrian debacle?! Not solely the investor should be allowed to prosper at the expense of everyone else. That's plutocracy, not democracy. Dude, your brain's on the fritz.
Novichok 1 | 4,255
10 Oct 2021 #816
And therefore America "deserved" the Trump disaster as Germany did the Syrian debacle?!

Yes. Every "democracy" deserves itself.

Not solely the investor should be allowed to prosper at the expense of everyone else

A guy who bought Microsoft stock, how does he "prosper at the expense of everyone else?

That's plutocracy, not democracy.

So in a "democracy", the rich are not allowed to influence policies. I didn't know that. You are truly a very wise man.
Lyzko 31 | 7,809
11 Oct 2021 #817
What pray has this to do with the topic at hand?
Novichok 1 | 4,255
11 Oct 2021 #818
Exactly the same as your post # 815 to which mine is a response.
Lyzko 31 | 7,809
11 Oct 2021 #819
And? What of it?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,348
11 Oct 2021 #820
People get what they freely voted for

Better fitting would be....The majority get what they freely voted for.

You should stop to treat whole peoples like a hive mind.....hell, even one person alone is full of contradictions!

Add to that that an election is rarely about only one topic with a "yes" or a "no" answer you get democracy...for some climate is more important, for some it's immigration...

The undeniable advantage of democracy is that here you have at least the hope of a change for the better.....something autocracies/dictatorships just can't deliver!
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,348
11 Oct 2021 #821
Another topic for discussions.....Cologne now allows it's mosques the daily screaming of it's Muezzins....loudly!

Interesting, the most valiant advokate is mayor Reker....a woman! She wants to show "respect" with that decision....respect for a religion which puts women like her into a lesser class!

Unbelievable!

What's next? Will she wear a headscarf too? Out of respect of course....

Sometimes I really don't understand Wessis......But I don't have to live there....and I'm fairly sure that will never happen in East Germany...and I'm glad!

PS: In the german Basic Law "Religionsfreiheit" plays an important part....I understand that as a right for freedom of religion! These daily screamings are anything but....na ja...Wessis! *shrugs*
mafketis 29 | 9,976
11 Oct 2021 #822
Cologne now allows it's mosques the daily screaming of it's Muezzins

Islam is an expansive religion (like Christianity once was). Therefore adherents have to believe that it is constantly expanding. In societies where almost everyone is muslim be default there's propaganda about ever increasing masses converting. In muslim majority societies with significant minorities new restrictions on minorities are periodically enacted.

In societies where muslims are a minority and there's no evidence of lots of conversions (because it's the kind of religion that the more you know about the less appealing it is) the feeling of expansion is acquired by gaining concessions from the majority.

She wants to show "respect" with that decision....

The western idea is that if you show someone respect they they will show respect to you. Lots of non-western cultures aren't like that (especially honor-based middle eastern cultures where respect is a zero sum game - you get respect by compelling it from others).

One of the stupid things about modern thinking is the abandonment of culture - cultural differences exist and don't change just because people have crossed a border. The most you can hope for (as a destination country) is to assimilate the children but stupid multi-cultural policies do everything possible to prevent that. So you end up with cross-generational failure.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,348
11 Oct 2021 #823
So you end up with cross-generational failure.

.....it will all end in blood and tears, believe you me!
mafketis 29 | 9,976
11 Oct 2021 #824
I'm sure they're okay with that.
Tacitus 2 | 1,383
11 Oct 2021 #825
and I'm fairly sure that will never happen in East Germany.

Give it 20 years, and you in the East will come around as well. If Christians are allowed their churchbells, then there is no real argument against preventing muslims from using their Muezzins. At least those do not happen every 15 minutes or so.

Honestly, this hysteria over islam would be kinda amusing, if it would not distract people from the real enemy of democracy, the far-right parties, who in this year already organized a coup attempt in the USA and are already undermining the rule of law and democracy in countries like Poland and Hungary.

@B.B I think you should try living somewhere where muslims are part of the local community. Then you would see how baseless your fears are ;)
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,348
11 Oct 2021 #826
Give it 20 years, and you in the East will come around as well.

I very much doubt that!

In 20 years people will have learned what that "tolerance" and wrongly interpreted "respect" leads to....since the 90's that West has lost already alot of it's former glory....the crime, the ghettoes, the islamist attacks, the burning banlieus, Silvester Cologne....nobody I know in the former East still thinks: That we need here too!

(We prefer to watch that in the TV news only)

And now that unbearable noise....NOBODY here wants that, I assure you, heh:)

If Christians are allowed their churchbells,

Thing is, they aren't allowed that in the muslim countries!

I could get behind the idea: equal rights for all...as in: You Turkey allow christian churches to be build and ring their bells and we allow the same for your mosques here!

But that?

Honestly, this hysteria over islam would be kinda amusing

It seems everything outside the holy CLIMA is hysterical and funny for you....

And if a far-right party becomes the only party to take that seriously, well....I might rethink my next election choice!
mafketis 29 | 9,976
11 Oct 2021 #827
where muslims are part of the local community

How many muslims have you invited into your home for dinner or a social gathering? How many muslims have you gone out with after work? How many muslim homes have you been a guest in?
jon357 67 | 17,553
11 Oct 2021 #828
How many

In my case, hundreds over the years.

PO fanatics abusing the people coming out of the smolensk mass next door

There are some reports of the Smolenskists on their way home from mass, spitting on families going to the pro-democracy protests.
Tacitus 2 | 1,383
11 Oct 2021 #829
they aren't allowed that in the muslim countries!

That is a silly argument. Muslims in our country are not responsible for things that happen elsewhere nor do they have any power to change things there. We have outlawed the death penalty, yet countries like still the USA still pratice them. Do you have any power to change that?

CLIMA is hysterical and funny for you

No, I take a lot of things serious, but the concern people have with islam is just blown way out of proportion. That people are still obsessing over them after far-right parties almost managed a coup in the USA and are currently undermining democracy in Poland and Hungary is silly at best and dangerous at worst. Islamists and Far-Right are very similar, except one has some degree of political power while the other has not.

That we need here too!

I assure you there are plenty of things that is deplorable about the East as well. Burning refugee centers, Pegida and so on. However I know from personal experience that many people in Dresden despise Pegida, and if you were to know muslims, you would know that the vast majority of them are decent, hard-working people who just want to live like you and I do.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,348
11 Oct 2021 #830
Do you have any power to change that?

Why would I want to change that? If a drunk driver get's only probation for killing a young family with kids or a pedophile can repeat his destrucion of a childrens life after he got only a few months (if at all) for the same crime before I sometimes wish we had REAL justice like them!

Islamists and Far-Right are very similar,

And yet.....nobody want's to show RESPECT to Pegida or the AfD.....but when Islamists come together to pray that their god stands above all and all unbelievers need to be killed.... without women beside them allowed, that is somehow worthy of tolerance and even support????

However I know from personal experience that many people in Dresden despise Pegida,

So, I know from experience that many Wessis don't fall backwards embracing a stone age cult either ....there is hope! :)

you would know that the vast majority of them are decent, hard-working people who just want to live like you and I do.

Yeah....I get that.....whenever people got murdered, their blood still damp on the street stones, the war cry "Allahu Akbar" not fully trailed off yet you can hear and read them already everywhere: "Islam is a religion of peace"...."that's no real muslims"...."that has nothing to do with Islam"....yadda yadday blah blah...always only the poor victims...suuuuure!
Novichok 1 | 4,255
11 Oct 2021 #831
If Christians are allowed their churchbells, then there is no real argument against preventing muslims

There is a real argument...Christians in Germany are at home and have been at home for centuries. Muslims in Germany are either guests or trespassers because the stupid German Christians let them in.
jon357 67 | 17,553
11 Oct 2021 #832
Islamists and Far-Right are very similar, except one has some degree of political power while the other has not.

Pretty well true. And the Salafi/Deobandis will have a great deal less political power (and financial influence which is the key to their expansion) as fossil fuel use declines and climate change renders their homelands barely inhabitable and devoid of water.
Spike31 3 | 2,446
11 Oct 2021 #833
Honestly, this hysteria over islam would be kinda amusing

"We will conquer your country with the bellies of our women..."

Sheik Yer'mami AD 2007

"Mohammed is rapidly becoming one of the most popular names in Germany"

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5311761/Mohammed-one-popular-names-Germany.html

So far they are delivering on their promise...

I sometimes wish we had REAL justice like them!

since the 90's that West has lost already alot of it's former glory....the crime, the ghettoes, the islamist attacks, the burning banlieus, Silvester Cologne

I have to admit that @BratwurstBoy is positively influenced by PolishForums already.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,348
11 Oct 2021 #834
@BratwurstBoy is positively influenced by PolishForums

I haven't changed at all Spike, you would know that by now if you haven't been so busy with hating and distrusting me only for my german heritage!
Spike31 3 | 2,446
11 Oct 2021 #835
I may have underestimated the difference in mentality between Ossi's and Wessi's.

From the Polish perspective, native Germans look, and act, more like a solid block that despite political differences always aim for a compromise.

Maybe that was just an illusion created by a long reign of panzer Kanzlerin Angela Merkel. The next few years will show..
Novichok 1 | 4,255
11 Oct 2021 #836
undefined

influenced by PolishForums already.

90% by me.

always aim for a compromise.

Like the Swedes? OK, guys, if you don't make them scream you can stay...kind of compromise?

Stick to the topic please
Spike31 3 | 2,446
11 Oct 2021 #837
Germany is now forming a new patchy "grand coalition" (with socialists, commies from Die Linke and "greens" you name it) with a socialist Olof Scholz as a new chancellor.

This looks like a disaster already.
Despite her 2015 "refugee wilkommen" flop Germans may soon miss Merkel dearly.
Poland not so much because the Green freaks will be obstructing NS2 and that's a positive thing for Poland and Baltic States.

Czechs on the other hand have unexpectedly elected a right wing government that is willing to settle our differences over a border coal power plant. An issue that the EU has used to punish with fines Poland for being "stuborn' and 'uncooperative' member (any reason is good to 'punish' Poland. This time Poland punched back with constitutional court ruling)

That punishment had also a great psychological effect on Polish society because many moderate Polish EU enthusiast voiced their anger. Polexit may actually happen not thanks to Polish right wing activists but thanks to leftist fanatics from the EU that will anger the moderate majority of Poles.
Tacitus 2 | 1,383
12 Oct 2021 #838
Why would I want to change that?

Then take other laws passed in Christian countries that you will probably disagree with like in Uganda that sends homosexuals to prison for decades. Those laws were heavily pushed by Christian preachers. I am a Christian, but I have neither responsibility for this nor the power to change that. Denying muslims who were born in Germany a right Christian Germans enjoy because some country they have neither influence over nor connection to is absurd to say the least.

but when Islamists come together to pray that

Most muslims are not islamists. Saying otherwise is like claiming that all East Germans or conservatives are automatically Nazis. Both claims are insulting and patently untrue.

Would you feel fairly assessed if someone claimed that all East Germans lack an understanding of democracy, are prone to violence against refugees and potential killers of any Germans with foreign roots? Because that is what you can conclude if you apply the same standards you do regarding muslims.

We will conquer your country with the bellies of our women

No doubt to his great distress most of those children grow up to be either liberal muslims, or like most Germans, lose their faith alltogether. I am more worried about Polands future right now. Germany will still be a democracy and in the EU by 2030. Whereas Polands is looking in increasingly threatened on both accounts.
Novichok 1 | 4,255
12 Oct 2021 #839
Most muslims are not islamists.

Who cares! Splitting hair leading nowhere.
The only relevant point is that Germany doesn't need them and does not benefit from their presence. Period. Case closed.

Both claims are insulting and patently untrue.

What is not insulting and true is that your posts are nothing more than post-fact justifications of an obedient, woke, and weak man.
Also true is my claim that not a single German ever asked the German ruling elite for Muslim migrants or refugees.

They were shoved down your throats so you were left with two options: (1) object and thus reveal that they did it to you and that you are powerless, or (2) pretend that you like the idea - another version of the Stockholm syndrome. Obedient and weak men always choose (2).

that she alone could alter the hearts and minds of the German people.

Before anyone decides to screw with my heart and mind, how about asking me first if I like the idea. Too shy or too afraid that I may say, hell, no way?

In anticipation of the latter, the snakes lie and hide their devious and sick ideas for as long as they can. For some reason, they like voting at midnight after a 20-minute debate and without revealing what's in the bill. You got to pass it to see what's in it, we are told. That's "democracy" for you.

BTW, do you know any German who wanted to have his heart and mind altered?
Spike31 3 | 2,446
12 Oct 2021 #840
Germany doesn't need them and does not benefit from their presence

I think many Western Germans are so brainwashed that they're - or at least they were before they woke up to reality - happy about it.

Another group is those paralyzed by overwhelming political correctness and even when they feel that something is off they won't criticize it fearing that they may get labeled as "far-right " or "racists".

Others are trying to accept the situation and convince themselves that it's all right and "everything's fine and that's how it should be", or perhaps that "this is just a temporary issue that will eventually solve itself" to deal with increasing cognitive dissonance between news reports and street reality.

A distinctive group are [like @Tacitus I presume] are virtuale signallers finding great pleasure in having a perceived moral high-ground.

People like that are usually not personally touched by the direct side effects of "refugee" presence or by aggressive multikulti, and they will preach to others how good multikulti is.

Like wealthy white "liberal" upper-middle-class folks living in white neighborhoods on the outskirts of London or in a white gated community within London and preaching about the wonders of "multiculturalism".

They are usually not so stupid themselves and made the right choice for moving to white neighborhoods. I just don't like how full of **** they are, that's all.

Let's have some fun and add more "types" from your personal observations.


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