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European News and Poland Thread 2


Novichok 1 | 4,255
10 Oct 2021 #781
In a "democracy" there is no such thing as wrong immigration policy. Leaders do what they promised and the voters voted for.
Germans like refugees and migrants, hence, no problem. If 1 million is good, 2 million is twice as good.
Lyzko 31 | 7,808
10 Oct 2021 #782
Germany is not a traditionally melting pot society though.
jon357 67 | 17,553
10 Oct 2021 #783
There's always time.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,348
10 Oct 2021 #784
To the contrary Lyzko....just look at the map....mainly just a flat plain without natural borders to hinder any movements....whole people wandered back and forth across this plain....and then look at the history....central Europe with it's ever changing borders....Germans are a mix with her neighbours....the borders are all more or less arbitrary and always politically....

The difference is that this mix has been always European, which worked....the influx of non-Europeans is new....and that doesn't work!

Not at least because they aren't immigrants following any immigration laws....most of those who come want the promised money, the promised job, the promised house, the promised good life (by Mutti Merkel). They are not refugees but still use the law of asylum....that won't work for much longer!
Tacitus 2 | 1,383
10 Oct 2021 #785
most Germans don't care about the climate change either

Well, evidently more care about climate than refugees, otherwise the Green party would not have received 50% more votes than the AfD.

abhor this genderspeech

As do I.

Because of desinterest

Yep. It is just not relevant to people anymore in the face of Covid and extreme weather phenomens. Nobody cares and those who do live in their own media bubble and have little to no exposure to refugees in the first place. Which is why they can cling to those stereotypes. And sadly you are also clinging to those wrong perceptions, otherwise you would not be painting those people with the same brush. The idea that the vast majority of them are young males with no case for asylum who want to leech of welfare money is simply not supported by facts. Not only is the goup more diverse in terms of age and gender as pointed out, their integration into the labour market has also been going well. Almost half of them were working before Covid hit. During Covid we had 14k Syrian doctors and nurses helping out, which allowed us to get through the crisis and even help out our neighbours.

google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/germany-calls-on-migrant-medics-to-help-tackle-coronavirus

People used to have the same reservations about European migrants. Italians were in the 1950s deemed as too "Southern European" and "Catholic", Poles were perceived as lazy and criminal and so on.
Novichok 1 | 4,255
10 Oct 2021 #786
most of those who come want the promised money, the promised job, the promised house,

That was 49 minutes ago. I wonder why Tacitus didn't comment...Hmm...

their integration into the labour market has also been going well.

How many would be too many?
If you have no number, you are disqualified from adult discussions.
If you do have a number, what is it and how are you going to stop N+1?
jon357 67 | 17,553
10 Oct 2021 #787
more care about climate than refugees, otherwise the Green party would not have received 50% more votes than the AfD.

You hit the nail on the head.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,348
10 Oct 2021 #788
Well, evidently more care about climate than refugees, otherwise the Green party would not have received 50% more votes than the AfD

How would you know? With only a fraction of the positive and supporting presentation in the media as the GREENS got how much would had been possible? And still they got across Germany 10,1%....compared to the media darlings the GREENS with their 14%.

And in the East it's worse.....the AfD wins Saxonia and Thuringia even instead of getting constantly the worst press of all political parties.....(with the GREENS there nearly non-existent)

I came to the conclusion that it's for the GREENS, it won't get any higher in the numbers for them....the media....the ÖR....and most journalists did truly their best...more than 14% it will never be, rather less as a time in the government tends to chap away the halo of an every opposition party....if the past of the GREENS in any gov is a blueprint...

But the AfD? Who knows how far they can go....

It is just not relevant to people anymore

Not relevant or just totally ignored?

Majority against admission of refugees

Large parts of the German population are against Germany accepting more refugees. And even more citizens are of the opinion that the refugees who are already here have not arrived well in German society. ....

The leftist TAZ from Juni this year!

...Broken down according to employment status, voting behavior, income and place of residence, there is almost everywhere a consensus not to allow further refugees into the country....

taz.de/Meinungsumfrage-zu-Migrationspolitik/!5779674/

If you don't talk about it, don't discuss it, do so as if there weren't a problem doesn't make the problem go away....it never does! To the contrary it tend's to grow, to fester, to stink....till it explodes!
Lyzko 31 | 7,808
10 Oct 2021 #789
Following the US or Ellís Island model of Emma Lazarus fame "Give me your tired, your poor...", I don't for the life of me see how you possibly challenge my statement, B.B. German history has been radically different from that of the US and Merkel's tragic, indeed fatal, flaw will now and forever more be her outdated 6O's kumbaya idealism. As an erstwhile Merkel supporter and long time acqaintance from Berlin put ít, "Mensch, du kannst nich' eben um die ganze Gesellschaft umkrempeln!"- Geez, ya just can't take care of every Tom, Dick, and Harry out there! Ordinary, average ethnic Germans simply felt marginalízed. Similarly, Americans of like stripe felt majorly let down, even betrayed by the Democratic Party, thereby turning their backs on liberal democracy and voting for Trump. However, thank the Lord an understandably frustrated majority German electorate preferred Scholz over Hoecke and his cronies-:)
Novichok 1 | 4,255
10 Oct 2021 #790
You hit the nail on the head.

Nail in the head is what the open borders leftists suffer from. It is not conducive to fact-based analysis and conclusions.

there is almost everywhere a consensus not to allow further refugees into the country....

...for the reasons that were true and predictable BEFORE the 2015 invasion!!! Therefore, the invasion was AGAINST the will of the Germans from moment one!!! Just as in the US.

Western white stupidy is international. Like Covid.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,348
10 Oct 2021 #791
German electorate preferred Scholz

.....I wouldn't get that far!

Since he wisely kept his mouth shut most of the time, he only looked fractional better than the other unbearable candidates with their constant errors and failures and stupid grins and omittings and lies....

This election was never about "who is best" but rather "who is least worse"!
Novichok 1 | 4,255
10 Oct 2021 #792
BB, are you going sour on "democracy"? Soon, I will be to the left of you if you continue like this.
What happened?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,348
10 Oct 2021 #793
BB, are you going sour on "democracy"?

Are you joking?

We didn't threw the GDR into the bin of history and send our leaders packing to now allow another class of ignorant, people-despising, ideologues to take over...to make policy against it's own people!

Every ex-GDRian remembers that smell of the "good cause"....
Lyzko 31 | 7,808
10 Oct 2021 #794
You make a sound point, B.B. I'd have to concur with you on that one.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,348
10 Oct 2021 #795
Maybe we can discuss some more another time...have to go now..

*bows out*
Novichok 1 | 4,255
10 Oct 2021 #796
Are you joking?

No, just yanking your chain...As a friend, of course.
Bottom line: I am impressed with your conversion into a cynic.
amiga500 2 | 922
10 Oct 2021 #797
The biggest party that is tipped to form coalition goverment in czech is good friends with PiS, both being part of the ECR group in the EU paralament and euro realists. expect them to gangup on european commision. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_Democratic_Party_(Czech_Republic)
Tacitus 2 | 1,383
10 Oct 2021 #798
positive and supporting presentation in the media as the GREENS

Yeah, it is all down to the media and not the fact that the AfD had nothing substantial to say on the two pressing issues (climate change and Covid). Their positions there was obviously driven to take into the fringe movement and not because they actually believe it.The AfD is a one issue party and unfortunately for them, that issue is simply no longer a priority for most people. We in NRW took in more refugees than all of East Germany, but what really concerned us right now were the record floods and the economic effects of the Covid crisis. Those have the potential of disrupting our lifes.
Novichok 1 | 4,255
10 Oct 2021 #799
the fact that the AfD had nothing substantial to say on the two pressing issues (climate change and Covid).

Neither does any other party.

You can't change the climate at a reasonable cost while the two greatest polluters - China and India - are exempt and protected from all criticism and restrictions - the kind stupid white man has imposed on himself to become less competitive. But I am sure, you wholeheartedly endorse that form of econ suicide.

Did you notice what the ugly Swede didn't say about climate change?

She didn't say a single word about those two hellholes in her recent attempt to stay relevant.
Tacitus 2 | 1,383
10 Oct 2021 #800
Neither does any other party.

1. Regarding climate change, not doing anything is no option considering the catastrophic consequences. While we do have to get India and China on board, those countries rightfully point out that not only has the West a centuries old carbon footprint, but that an average person in the West produces much more Co2 than say in India. That has to change in any case.

2. Our government had a very sound Covid strategy that allowed us to get through the Crisis with fewer deaths per citizen than any other comparable mayor Western country. The AfD just looked what would be more attractive to voters. First they wanted Zero Covid and then, after realizing that Covid deniers were an untapped voting group the completely reversed their course.

If you have no credible answer to the two issues that were - according to all surveys - most important to voters, you'll lose and that is what happened.
Novichok 1 | 4,255
10 Oct 2021 #801
not doing anything is no option considering the catastrophic consequences.

OK, let's put some numbers on "doing something" while China and India are exempt - for all the good reasons, of course.

Question: how many trillions of your own money (not the US) are you Germans willing to spend to lower the temperature and by how many degrees in what time?

No bs. No essays, No lectures. No speeches. Only the three numbers: cost, temp drop, and time to do it.

Go...
Tacitus 2 | 1,383
10 Oct 2021 #802
Germany will have to do what is necessary fullfill the obligation it accepted from Paris at the very minimum.
Novichok 1 | 4,255
10 Oct 2021 #803
Where are the numbers? Do you even have a clue what Germany is obligated to do - IN NUMBERS! - or are you just a clueless propaganda re-transmitter?
Ironside 51 | 11,510
10 Oct 2021 #804
Western white stupidy is international.

You are the best example of that. It is a very lazy and easy explanation. Doesn't explain anything at all.

Germany will have to do what is necessary to fulfill the obligation it accepted from Paris at the very minimum.

That sounds ominous.

Regarding climate change

Do you know much about it? It seems unlikely given your post on the issue.
Novichok 1 | 4,255
10 Oct 2021 #805
It is a very lazy and easy explanation.

I have a longer version but nobody here reads longer versions of anything.
Ironside 51 | 11,510
10 Oct 2021 #806
By the way, those people at the Belarusian border want to Germany. It is easy to solve the issue, shuttle buses to the German border.

Unless Germany tells those traitorous dogs they have on their paycheck amongst so-called Polish politicians to shut up and to stop sabotaging Polish war efforts against asymmetric warfare deployed against Poland and by extension against the EU.
jon357 67 | 17,553
10 Oct 2021 #807
It is easy to solve the issue,

Very. Just do as Lithuania do, with the support of Frontex.

Rather than make a fool of themselves as the Polish government has been doing.
Ironside 51 | 11,510
10 Oct 2021 #808
Rather than make a fool

Don't talk nonsense. It is not helpful.
mafketis 29 | 9,976
10 Oct 2021 #809
Is there any real evidence Germany (or the EU) is opposed to current Polish actions? No one has been saying "let them in!"
Novichok 1 | 4,255
10 Oct 2021 #810
It is easy to solve the issue, shuttle buses to the German border.

Why then do you object to my "Western white stupidity"? What's the message now? Come and you shall receive as a deterrent or an invitation?

Western stupidity has no bottom because women are allowed to vote. They would rather be raped than say stay the fu*ck away to migrants and be called racists. And the girly men go along...

No one has been saying "let them in!"

In a democracy, the ruling mafia is doing it for the people.


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